RE: TDI the new PPI
Discussion
Devil2575 said:
Government aren't experts, car manufacturers are.
How is it worse?
If someone is taken for a fool by a con artist who is worse? The fool or the con artist?
The Government aren't experts? I would hope that they are seeing as they're calling the shots here. How is it worse?
If someone is taken for a fool by a con artist who is worse? The fool or the con artist?
Car manufacturers make cars. The clue's in the title. They then just work around the legal requirements set out by the Government.
I'd like to think that the Government are experts in what they do just like car manufacturers are within their own field.
Edited by culpz on Friday 13th January 09:59
greenarrow said:
Governments aren't car experts or scientists and they rely on the expertise of those who supposedly are. The Labour Government relied on advice from scientists who told them diesels were the way to go to lower Co2 emissions and in that sense they are, but no-one took enough heed of the evidence that was available even back then, about the tiny particulate matter and the high NOX levels emitted by Diesels.....
VAG however knowingly cheated. I think that's different from the Govt trying to reach its green house gas obligations and being given the wrong advice by experts.
It's just a poor show though. More thorough research could have been made before a sudden conclusion and a plan going forward was met. These people run our country, don't forget.VAG however knowingly cheated. I think that's different from the Govt trying to reach its green house gas obligations and being given the wrong advice by experts.
VW just make cars. They took a daft punt and decided to wing it. They're now getting punished for it. Just like we forgave our banks, who we trusted with our hard-earned cash, we will forgive VW and all will be forgotten about.
Edited by culpz on Friday 13th January 09:17
Leggy said:
... and I hate the idea that my emissions unbeknown to me are contributing to the worsening air quality.
So emissions that you do know about are OK?Leggy said:
Considering the unfair competitive advantage they must have gained I'm surprised no other car manufacturers have waded in. But that probably suggests they have their own skeletons!
The daft thing is that everyone's real-world figures for NOx are pretty bad. VAG are now amongst the least bad.This sort of thing annoys the heck out of me. VW were caught doing a clever trick to pass a flawed test. As a Foreign company they are being shafted by everyone in the US, whilst others have scurried off and fixed their systems to comply quietly.
Massive fines and class actions was always going to happen there.
Over here what has changed, the cars still work fine, polar bears aren't dying and all this b
ks about ashmatics, yes sad, but trucks busses etc are worse polluters and don't foget it was the green lobby that forced government to push clean diesel cars with better tax rates etc.
So who should be sued? All of the above if you are going to do this, but I have not met any who bought their VW due to emissions. In fact one guy was spouting on about how he felt cheated but forgot how he was telling everyone how he had had it chipped and was some sort of supercar baiter now.
All this holding them to account is just another way of saying "I want some money from VW" nothing more or less.
In the same way as PPI, whiplash etc. when presented with an opportunity some will take the money, others will ignore it, some will say foolishly so but we all have a choice. Seeing people potentially lose their jobs here or in Germany really sticks it to the man and hold the company to account doesn't it.
Massive fines and class actions was always going to happen there.
Over here what has changed, the cars still work fine, polar bears aren't dying and all this b
ks about ashmatics, yes sad, but trucks busses etc are worse polluters and don't foget it was the green lobby that forced government to push clean diesel cars with better tax rates etc.So who should be sued? All of the above if you are going to do this, but I have not met any who bought their VW due to emissions. In fact one guy was spouting on about how he felt cheated but forgot how he was telling everyone how he had had it chipped and was some sort of supercar baiter now.
All this holding them to account is just another way of saying "I want some money from VW" nothing more or less.
In the same way as PPI, whiplash etc. when presented with an opportunity some will take the money, others will ignore it, some will say foolishly so but we all have a choice. Seeing people potentially lose their jobs here or in Germany really sticks it to the man and hold the company to account doesn't it.
culpz said:
The Government aren't experts? I would hope that they are seeing as they're calling the shots here.
Car manufacturers make cars. The clue's in the title. They then just work around the legal requirements set out by the Government.
I'd like to think that the Government are experts in what they do just like car manufacturers are within their own field.
But the car manufacturers weren't working to the legal requirements were they. This is the whole point. Car manufacturers make cars. The clue's in the title. They then just work around the legal requirements set out by the Government.
I'd like to think that the Government are experts in what they do just like car manufacturers are within their own field.
Edited by culpz on Friday 13th January 09:59
Devil2575 said:
But the car manufacturers weren't working to the legal requirements were they. This is the whole point.
Correct. They are now getting punished for doing so though. People just need to get over it and that's exactly what's going to happen.However, at the end of the day, like it or not, VW are going nowhere.
Edited by culpz on Friday 13th January 11:09
culpz said:
Devil2575 said:
But the car manufacturers weren't working to the legal requirements were they. This is the whole point.
Correct. They are now getting punished for doing so though. People just need to get over it and that's exactly what's going to happen.However, at the end of the day, like it or not, VW are going nowhere.
Edited by culpz on Friday 13th January 11:09
That is all.
Sheepshanks said:
I quite admire them for doing that.
As do i in a way. It's not a typically German way of doing things. Also, with the drivel that the Government spout, why are we to believe a word they say? That's my counter to people saying; "How can we trust VW again?".
Let's not kid ourselves, VW will continue to be a profitable business in the future. Let them take their loss and move on.
Devil2575 said:
I'm not saying VW should necessarily go anywhere, I'm saying that their reputation should be taking a hit and that if they go to the wall it is there fault.
That is all.
What you think should happen and what will actually happen are two different matters though.That is all.
The banks learnt a lesson with mis-selling PPI and VW have now done so too with this scandal.
culpz said:
Devil2575 said:
I'm not saying VW should necessarily go anywhere, I'm saying that their reputation should be taking a hit and that if they go to the wall it is there fault.
That is all.
What you think should happen and what will actually happen are two different matters though.That is all.
The banks learnt a lesson with mis-selling PPI and VW have now done so too with this scandal.
culpz said:
Devil2575 said:
Did the banks learn a lesson? I'm not sure everyone would agree with you on that score.
I don't think they'll be doing it again since it was exposed. So, yes, i'd say that they have.http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2016/04/ppi-scandal-b...
Devil2575 said:
culpz said:
Devil2575 said:
Well it fking should be.
You might not care less, but plenty of people do care that they have been lied too.
I do love how personally this all gets taken.king should be.You might not care less, but plenty of people do care that they have been lied too.
Plenty people really don't care though as they have not suffered any kind of significant financial loss. Again, the potential claim of any kind of money back despite this is obviously and clearly appealing.
Devil2575 said:
It's not about faith. I dis-trust these banks as much as i do the Government if i'm being honest However, that's just potential for a different scandal. But not PPI again, which was my point.
Edited by culpz on Friday 13th January 12:43
SuperchargedVR6 said:
Devil2575 said:
culpz said:
Devil2575 said:
Well it fking should be.
You might not care less, but plenty of people do care that they have been lied too.
I do love how personally this all gets taken.king should be.You might not care less, but plenty of people do care that they have been lied too.
Plenty people really don't care though as they have not suffered any kind of significant financial loss. Again, the potential claim of any kind of money back despite this is obviously and clearly appealing.
t?Firstly, I'm not a tree Hugger.
Secondly, you call it bulls
t I call it science.My own mantra? Now what would that be? That mnaufacturers should produce products that adhere to the legislation and do what they say on the tin? How Amish of me!
Now shut up you twunt.
culpz said:
Devil2575 said:
It's not about faith. I dis-trust these banks as much as i do the Government if i'm being honest However, that's just potential for a different scandal. But not PPI again, which was my point.
Edited by culpz on Friday 13th January 12:43
"My son learnt his lesson, after being told off for punching a classmate the next time he kicked them instead"
Devil2575 said:
Surely the point is about learning a lesson is that you start to behave, not just that you don't do the same thing again.
"My son learnt his lesson, after being told off for punching a classmate the next time he kicked them instead"
To be quite honest mate, i'm not the person to ask about this. I wish i could check using my crystal ball but i simply just don't know."My son learnt his lesson, after being told off for punching a classmate the next time he kicked them instead"
I've always kept banks at arm's-length, even before the PPI scandal came to light. They're there to make money at the end of the day.
Devil2575 said:
People should care. The environment that we live in is pretty important. Not caring that a car you bought is emiting a lot more pollutants that have been linked to increased mortality is at best stupid.
Come on, that's an er, breathtakingly preposterous statement. How am I supposed to care? I use my diesel vehicle to tow my uncatalysed hillclimb car to an event whereupon I endeavor to create as much tyre, brake and uncatalysed exhaust particulate as I possibly can. What difference does the diesel make?heebeegeetee said:
Devil2575 said:
People should care. The environment that we live in is pretty important. Not caring that a car you bought is emiting a lot more pollutants that have been linked to increased mortality is at best stupid.
Come on, that's an er, breathtakingly preposterous statement. How am I supposed to care? I use my diesel vehicle to tow my uncatalysed hillclimb car to an event whereupon I endeavor to create as much tyre, brake and uncatalysed exhaust particulate as I possibly can. What difference does the diesel make?Do you care about your own health? What you eat, how much exercise you take etc? It should be the same with the environment.
Not caring about the impact of your behaviour on the environment that you live in is stupid. Caring about it is pretty easy, especially as it's in your own interests to do so.
I could say that I have a big tyre fire in my garden every weekend, what difference does diesel make. I don't have to have a tyre fire
If you know that you are doing something that is having a health impact on yourself and others then perhaps you need to question the sense in doing so, however I suspect that the activities you partake in do not take place in a built up area where lots of people live and work. The issue of NOx/Particulates is all about the local effects. Also, only a few people do what you do, millions of people drive diesel cars in town centres.
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