- The riddle pf the Toyota GT86- the car for purist drivers.
Discussion
Andyhb said:
Has anyone seen actual real world bhp reading from the gt86. I'm sure I read somewhere that it only put out approximately 170, far from the 197 advertised.
Varies by car. Most seem to make about 185 bhp on a dyno.Mine is a bit above average - 205 bhp with a drop in filter and manifold, 216 bhp with a remap on top of those.
When I was 21 I wanted as much power as I could afford so went for a Fabia vRS. 130bhp diesel, cheap to run and fast enough to have fun in, although didn't handle that well. That cost me 6k and even back then I didn't know many people who could afford even a used 86 at 21 but I think at 21 it's definitely something that would have been on my radar as something I could aspire to getting and something that would eventually be possible. I did think about MR2's and Celica's around that time but insurance was mental. I very nearly went down the Lotus route but held off as I still needed something practical. A massive regret is not getting into RWD cars sooner though and now my brother has he loves it. A few tweaks fix any issues with the only problem being the slippery slope of modifying. I like how it is now and if I hadn't read about the torque dip on a forum I may not have noticed it since I don't get to drive it as much as I'd like to. Only thing I don't like about it is the head unit and the controls that are a bit fiddly.
Martin_Hx said:
I think this car should have had a 230-240 2.2/2.3 N/A out of the box with a high top end, im sure there must be something in the range they could have shoved in it? The car should have been built around the engine/gearbox, which should be its main talking point, for the right reasons!
Sorry i'm not massively up to speed on these cars but is this same engine in any other car currently on sale? MX-5?
I think the engine not being powerful enough (when has 200bhp not been enough?) and having the odd standard mapping hasn't helped it, nor the impracticality compared to the hot hatches around its price point (Focus ST anyone?)Sorry i'm not massively up to speed on these cars but is this same engine in any other car currently on sale? MX-5?
The engine is a Subaru boxer lump so AFAIK isn't used in any other Toyota's. However it can be found I believe in the newest Forester
Here goes.
I was following GT86/BRZ from concept stage, loved the idea, and from 2012 till October 16 was tracking used prices, and after a little wobble they stabilized.
I picked mine up, 3 years old, 15K on the clocks, for a very sensible price from a dealer in Scotland, a kind of price whereby just driving it the 350 miles back home and re-advertising could net a profit, judging by local prices and examples. Based on that theory I got stuck in having never driven one. Why?
I thought long and hard about what to buy, or go Golf R/ Cupra 290 on lease, and its essentially a Twin or an MX5, and I don't like cabrios. Fast 1 series? You look like an estate agent. Fast Golf/Leon/A3? So what. Boring to drive, expensive and just another Audi w
ker. Might as well buy a diesel S line. TT, see above for my price range. Ford/Vauxhall? Nope, no appeal at all. Nothing exciting is really made anymore for sensible money!
Other options:
Used E46 M3 - Old, and hideous parts prices, and watching my housemate do a boot floor, and the fact that its just a posh 3 series.
Used Z4 - too much money for a decent power one and knocking on 10 years old.
Used Cayman - Again, running costs, parts prices.
Used S2 Elise Toyota power - Edging out of my price range for a nice one, and I wasn't convinced I could daily one or afford bits. Maybe when I'm older. Do still want.
Used RX7 FD with an engine conversion - Was tracking Papercup's old V8 RX7, and a 2JZ RX7, however the thought of daily driving a converted car was a little concerning, that and the new seller of the V8 one was a dick who was tooooooooo expensive.
I settled on "The Twins" as running costs, parts prices and availability an aftermarket are huge. I jumped in based on re-selling if I didn't gel and proceeded to drive my new car 1300 miles round Scotland and back home. It was epic. The car, on empty highland roads, was only let down by some cheap pads that someone had fitted. I changed these for uprated ones when I got home.
Tyres wise, the Primacy HP are fine in the dry, but the slightest bit of damp made them horrible and snappy and understeery at the same time, I'm now on Rainsport 3's and the car is much easier to chuck about and is progressive.
Chassis wise, it is super nimble, much easier to feel what's going on than both the E46 clubsport and E46 M3 I've driven.
Looks wise, I hate the rear lights and spoiler, but they are easy things to change, ride height and standard wheels too can go in the bin.
Engine, I'm in two minds as what to do, turbo the FA20 or LS swap it, as it needs a little more oomph, I'm leaning towards turbo currently as engine swapped cars are a minefield and the LS swap isn't fully bottomed out yet. for the cost of a decent UEL Manifold and exhaust system and remap, I may as well go turbo.
Gearbox wise, its a great box when warm. When cold, not so much. Whoever signed it off needs a kick in the nads, same with the clutch feel, and I've had diesel drag paddle clutches in cars. Frustrating for no reason, but nicer than the M3 when warmed up.
Interior, its a bit Japanesey, not as nice as a TT or whatever, but the driving position is ridiculously good, pedal spacing, steering angle, it just works.
Overall, I've bought the best blank sheet of paper for my money that had a warranty, so that I can really use it, get used to it, and not worry about breaking it, once the warranty is up, I can play around and refine it to what I like.
Yes £25k was waaaay too much new. They were $25kUSD which would've been a much better price point over here, 17-20k is where they should've been.
Yes the boxer lump isn't great standard, if you like linear power, supercharge it, or manifold, exhaust, intake and a tune, it is restricted by emissions crap, aftermarket sports cats are a godsend.
And yes, the rear seats are usesless/ish. I managed 4 adults in but damn its tight.
Yes repmobiles can be irritating to get past, but most finally get the picture and move eventually, as you can carry sooo much more pace through any sort of bend/roundabout.
For something fun to pilot around and daily drive, that doesn't annihilate my wallet, I'm really happy. There is always a much bigger grin on my face when having a play with my mate's diesel quattro TT than there is on his... and I don't have to spanner my weekends away. Result.
I was following GT86/BRZ from concept stage, loved the idea, and from 2012 till October 16 was tracking used prices, and after a little wobble they stabilized.
I picked mine up, 3 years old, 15K on the clocks, for a very sensible price from a dealer in Scotland, a kind of price whereby just driving it the 350 miles back home and re-advertising could net a profit, judging by local prices and examples. Based on that theory I got stuck in having never driven one. Why?
I thought long and hard about what to buy, or go Golf R/ Cupra 290 on lease, and its essentially a Twin or an MX5, and I don't like cabrios. Fast 1 series? You look like an estate agent. Fast Golf/Leon/A3? So what. Boring to drive, expensive and just another Audi w
ker. Might as well buy a diesel S line. TT, see above for my price range. Ford/Vauxhall? Nope, no appeal at all. Nothing exciting is really made anymore for sensible money!Other options:
Used E46 M3 - Old, and hideous parts prices, and watching my housemate do a boot floor, and the fact that its just a posh 3 series.
Used Z4 - too much money for a decent power one and knocking on 10 years old.
Used Cayman - Again, running costs, parts prices.
Used S2 Elise Toyota power - Edging out of my price range for a nice one, and I wasn't convinced I could daily one or afford bits. Maybe when I'm older. Do still want.
Used RX7 FD with an engine conversion - Was tracking Papercup's old V8 RX7, and a 2JZ RX7, however the thought of daily driving a converted car was a little concerning, that and the new seller of the V8 one was a dick who was tooooooooo expensive.
I settled on "The Twins" as running costs, parts prices and availability an aftermarket are huge. I jumped in based on re-selling if I didn't gel and proceeded to drive my new car 1300 miles round Scotland and back home. It was epic. The car, on empty highland roads, was only let down by some cheap pads that someone had fitted. I changed these for uprated ones when I got home.
Tyres wise, the Primacy HP are fine in the dry, but the slightest bit of damp made them horrible and snappy and understeery at the same time, I'm now on Rainsport 3's and the car is much easier to chuck about and is progressive.
Chassis wise, it is super nimble, much easier to feel what's going on than both the E46 clubsport and E46 M3 I've driven.
Looks wise, I hate the rear lights and spoiler, but they are easy things to change, ride height and standard wheels too can go in the bin.
Engine, I'm in two minds as what to do, turbo the FA20 or LS swap it, as it needs a little more oomph, I'm leaning towards turbo currently as engine swapped cars are a minefield and the LS swap isn't fully bottomed out yet. for the cost of a decent UEL Manifold and exhaust system and remap, I may as well go turbo.
Gearbox wise, its a great box when warm. When cold, not so much. Whoever signed it off needs a kick in the nads, same with the clutch feel, and I've had diesel drag paddle clutches in cars. Frustrating for no reason, but nicer than the M3 when warmed up.
Interior, its a bit Japanesey, not as nice as a TT or whatever, but the driving position is ridiculously good, pedal spacing, steering angle, it just works.
Overall, I've bought the best blank sheet of paper for my money that had a warranty, so that I can really use it, get used to it, and not worry about breaking it, once the warranty is up, I can play around and refine it to what I like.
Yes £25k was waaaay too much new. They were $25kUSD which would've been a much better price point over here, 17-20k is where they should've been.
Yes the boxer lump isn't great standard, if you like linear power, supercharge it, or manifold, exhaust, intake and a tune, it is restricted by emissions crap, aftermarket sports cats are a godsend.
And yes, the rear seats are usesless/ish. I managed 4 adults in but damn its tight.
Yes repmobiles can be irritating to get past, but most finally get the picture and move eventually, as you can carry sooo much more pace through any sort of bend/roundabout.
For something fun to pilot around and daily drive, that doesn't annihilate my wallet, I'm really happy. There is always a much bigger grin on my face when having a play with my mate's diesel quattro TT than there is on his... and I don't have to spanner my weekends away. Result.
mat205125 said:
I desperately want to see a GT86 reach the £6-7500 mark, where they'll be a bargain used buy.
At their current used price, they are too close to a really nice (if a little older) Boxster or Cayman
Pretty much this.At their current used price, they are too close to a really nice (if a little older) Boxster or Cayman
When they're £5-6,7k(?) I'd write a cheque and buy one; use it as a daily. At the moment, it's too much money for not a lot of car.
JB! said:
Here goes.
I was following GT86/BRZ from concept stage, loved the idea, and from 2012 till October 16 was tracking used prices, and after a little wobble they stabilized.
I picked mine up, 3 years old, 15K on the clocks, for a very sensible price from a dealer in Scotland, a kind of price whereby just driving it the 350 miles back home and re-advertising could net a profit, judging by local prices and examples. Based on that theory I got stuck in having never driven one. Why?
I thought long and hard about what to buy, or go Golf R/ Cupra 290 on lease, and its essentially a Twin or an MX5, and I don't like cabrios. Fast 1 series? You look like an estate agent. Fast Golf/Leon/A3? So what. Boring to drive, expensive and just another Audi wker. Might as well buy a diesel S line. TT, see above for my price range. Ford/Vauxhall? Nope, no appeal at all. Nothing exciting is really made anymore for sensible money!
Other options:
Used E46 M3 - Old, and hideous parts prices, and watching my housemate do a boot floor, and the fact that its just a posh 3 series.
Used Z4 - too much money for a decent power one and knocking on 10 years old.
Used Cayman - Again, running costs, parts prices.
Used S2 Elise Toyota power - Edging out of my price range for a nice one, and I wasn't convinced I could daily one or afford bits. Maybe when I'm older. Do still want.
Used RX7 FD with an engine conversion - Was tracking Papercup's old V8 RX7, and a 2JZ RX7, however the thought of daily driving a converted car was a little concerning, that and the new seller of the V8 one was a dick who was tooooooooo expensive.
I settled on "The Twins" as running costs, parts prices and availability an aftermarket are huge. I jumped in based on re-selling if I didn't gel and proceeded to drive my new car 1300 miles round Scotland and back home. It was epic. The car, on empty highland roads, was only let down by some cheap pads that someone had fitted. I changed these for uprated ones when I got home.
Tyres wise, the Primacy HP are fine in the dry, but the slightest bit of damp made them horrible and snappy and understeery at the same time, I'm now on Rainsport 3's and the car is much easier to chuck about and is progressive.
Chassis wise, it is super nimble, much easier to feel what's going on than both the E46 clubsport and E46 M3 I've driven.
Looks wise, I hate the rear lights and spoiler, but they are easy things to change, ride height and standard wheels too can go in the bin.
Engine, I'm in two minds as what to do, turbo the FA20 or LS swap it, as it needs a little more oomph, I'm leaning towards turbo currently as engine swapped cars are a minefield and the LS swap isn't fully bottomed out yet. for the cost of a decent UEL Manifold and exhaust system and remap, I may as well go turbo.
Gearbox wise, its a great box when warm. When cold, not so much. Whoever signed it off needs a kick in the nads, same with the clutch feel, and I've had diesel drag paddle clutches in cars. Frustrating for no reason, but nicer than the M3 when warmed up.
Interior, its a bit Japanesey, not as nice as a TT or whatever, but the driving position is ridiculously good, pedal spacing, steering angle, it just works.
Overall, I've bought the best blank sheet of paper for my money that had a warranty, so that I can really use it, get used to it, and not worry about breaking it, once the warranty is up, I can play around and refine it to what I like.
Yes £25k was waaaay too much new. They were $25kUSD which would've been a much better price point over here, 17-20k is where they should've been.
Yes the boxer lump isn't great standard, if you like linear power, supercharge it, or manifold, exhaust, intake and a tune, it is restricted by emissions crap, aftermarket sports cats are a godsend.
And yes, the rear seats are usesless/ish. I managed 4 adults in but damn its tight.
Yes repmobiles can be irritating to get past, but most finally get the picture and move eventually, as you can carry sooo much more pace through any sort of bend/roundabout.
For something fun to pilot around and daily drive, that doesn't annihilate my wallet, I'm really happy. There is always a much bigger grin on my face when having a play with my mate's diesel quattro TT than there is on his... and I don't have to spanner my weekends away. Result.
This sums up my thoughts on them too, especially about it being a blank sheet of paper. Once I get fed up of the vRS I can see me getting an 86 as that's the most appealing part. It's been designed for modifying in mind and is a great base. As for people saying if it had X, Y or Z they'd buy it. The reality is they wouldn't and are all talk. As for people wanting it to be 7k will have to wait 3-4 years, like everything else that depreciates. I was following GT86/BRZ from concept stage, loved the idea, and from 2012 till October 16 was tracking used prices, and after a little wobble they stabilized.
I picked mine up, 3 years old, 15K on the clocks, for a very sensible price from a dealer in Scotland, a kind of price whereby just driving it the 350 miles back home and re-advertising could net a profit, judging by local prices and examples. Based on that theory I got stuck in having never driven one. Why?
I thought long and hard about what to buy, or go Golf R/ Cupra 290 on lease, and its essentially a Twin or an MX5, and I don't like cabrios. Fast 1 series? You look like an estate agent. Fast Golf/Leon/A3? So what. Boring to drive, expensive and just another Audi w
ker. Might as well buy a diesel S line. TT, see above for my price range. Ford/Vauxhall? Nope, no appeal at all. Nothing exciting is really made anymore for sensible money!Other options:
Used E46 M3 - Old, and hideous parts prices, and watching my housemate do a boot floor, and the fact that its just a posh 3 series.
Used Z4 - too much money for a decent power one and knocking on 10 years old.
Used Cayman - Again, running costs, parts prices.
Used S2 Elise Toyota power - Edging out of my price range for a nice one, and I wasn't convinced I could daily one or afford bits. Maybe when I'm older. Do still want.
Used RX7 FD with an engine conversion - Was tracking Papercup's old V8 RX7, and a 2JZ RX7, however the thought of daily driving a converted car was a little concerning, that and the new seller of the V8 one was a dick who was tooooooooo expensive.
I settled on "The Twins" as running costs, parts prices and availability an aftermarket are huge. I jumped in based on re-selling if I didn't gel and proceeded to drive my new car 1300 miles round Scotland and back home. It was epic. The car, on empty highland roads, was only let down by some cheap pads that someone had fitted. I changed these for uprated ones when I got home.
Tyres wise, the Primacy HP are fine in the dry, but the slightest bit of damp made them horrible and snappy and understeery at the same time, I'm now on Rainsport 3's and the car is much easier to chuck about and is progressive.
Chassis wise, it is super nimble, much easier to feel what's going on than both the E46 clubsport and E46 M3 I've driven.
Looks wise, I hate the rear lights and spoiler, but they are easy things to change, ride height and standard wheels too can go in the bin.
Engine, I'm in two minds as what to do, turbo the FA20 or LS swap it, as it needs a little more oomph, I'm leaning towards turbo currently as engine swapped cars are a minefield and the LS swap isn't fully bottomed out yet. for the cost of a decent UEL Manifold and exhaust system and remap, I may as well go turbo.
Gearbox wise, its a great box when warm. When cold, not so much. Whoever signed it off needs a kick in the nads, same with the clutch feel, and I've had diesel drag paddle clutches in cars. Frustrating for no reason, but nicer than the M3 when warmed up.
Interior, its a bit Japanesey, not as nice as a TT or whatever, but the driving position is ridiculously good, pedal spacing, steering angle, it just works.
Overall, I've bought the best blank sheet of paper for my money that had a warranty, so that I can really use it, get used to it, and not worry about breaking it, once the warranty is up, I can play around and refine it to what I like.
Yes £25k was waaaay too much new. They were $25kUSD which would've been a much better price point over here, 17-20k is where they should've been.
Yes the boxer lump isn't great standard, if you like linear power, supercharge it, or manifold, exhaust, intake and a tune, it is restricted by emissions crap, aftermarket sports cats are a godsend.
And yes, the rear seats are usesless/ish. I managed 4 adults in but damn its tight.
Yes repmobiles can be irritating to get past, but most finally get the picture and move eventually, as you can carry sooo much more pace through any sort of bend/roundabout.
For something fun to pilot around and daily drive, that doesn't annihilate my wallet, I'm really happy. There is always a much bigger grin on my face when having a play with my mate's diesel quattro TT than there is on his... and I don't have to spanner my weekends away. Result.
Kierkegaard said:
mat205125 said:
I desperately want to see a GT86 reach the £6-7500 mark, where they'll be a bargain used buy.
At their current used price, they are too close to a really nice (if a little older) Boxster or Cayman
Pretty much this.At their current used price, they are too close to a really nice (if a little older) Boxster or Cayman
When they're £5-6,7k(?) I'd write a cheque and buy one; use it as a daily. At the moment, it's too much money for not a lot of car.
As for tuning options, there are loads!
Edited by JB! on Thursday 19th January 09:35
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