- The riddle pf the Toyota GT86- the car for purist drivers.

- The riddle pf the Toyota GT86- the car for purist drivers.

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Discussion

JB!

5,254 posts

179 months

Thursday 19th January 2017
quotequote all
tejr said:
JB! said:
As for tuning options, there are loads!

Edited by JB! on Thursday 19th January 09:35
but can you net any serious power from them? smile I always felt 300bhp would be more the sweet spot.
Yep, 300bhp seems to be a "safe" limit for the standard rods. You can buy at least 2 turbo kits in the UK capable of 500bhp, just add fuelling, pistons and rods.

yonex said:
JB! said:
Used E46 M3 - Old, and hideous parts prices, and watching my housemate do a boot floor, and the fact that its just a posh 3 series.
Used Z4 - too much money for a decent power one and knocking on 10 years old.
Used Cayman - Again, running costs, parts prices.
Used S2 Elise Toyota power - Edging out of my price range for a nice one
That's all well and good but how much will it be to modify your 'blank canvas', how much will the insurance etc be and how reliable will the car be as a daily?

Suddenly a used Cayman isn't so much of a stretch?
I wouldn't leave a Cayman standard. I don't own standard cars, insurance is neither here nor there, its always been a specialist policy for me.

I'm watching a few turbo owners and am 18 months from warranty off, so by the time I put the cash together, probably 2-3 years from being boosted, plenty of time to decide what the reliability will be like and what to expect, but it looks good provided you keep boost levels sensible.

Tuvra said:
LasseV said:
Truth to be told, GT86 has way more potential than Golf R ever has. It did take literally a few weeks after launch when first turboed-gt86 did hit 10s mark in 1/4 mile. I doubt that golf r has achieved that. And if you really wanted to have 30-40 hp more and you are not just talking bs, you can have it via re-mapping and headers+exhaust. This car made 13.9 sec in 1/4 mile:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7lguKZVlprY

Standard Golf R goes 13.6 sec. I would say that is totally meaningless difference for a road car...

The thing is, this car has so much potential in every stages. In stock form, lightly modded or going high hp monster, you can do it. It has a strong engine, gearbox, diff and body
hehe

Revo Stage 1 Golf R does 0-60mph in 3.7 seconds and 0-100mph in 9 seconds. The cost, £600. How much would you have to throw at a GT86 to get anywhere near them figures?

Saying the GT86 has potential is one thing, saying it has "way more" performance potential than a Golf R is utter madness though. Throw £10k at each and then compare like for like because at the moment, your comparing apples and oranges.

I'll say again, if the GT86 had 300bhp or so as standard, I probably would have had one by now, fact. My argument has always been that they should have launched the car as it is now PLUS a higher powered Turbo/Supercharged version from the factory.
An R is 40k+

If I buy a new GT86 at 22/25k and spend 15 on it, I'll have a better starting chassis, and 15k to spend to destroy a standard R...

Different starting points, one is a hot hatch on steroids, one is a purpose built RWD chassis.

anonymous-user

53 months

Thursday 19th January 2017
quotequote all
JB! said:
An R is 40k+

If I buy a new GT86 at 22/25k and spend 15 on it, I'll have a better starting chassis, and 15k to spend to destroy a standard R...

Different starting points, one is a hot hatch on steroids, one is a purpose built RWD chassis.
I think it's mental dumping circa £40K into a GT86. There's some serious metal out there for that money and all of them, to a car, will be a better financial bet plus likely be faster etc

The point you raise on the Golf R is an interesting one. Revo Stage 1 (£700) will bring 350-370HP, Stage 2 400HP. Whilst I am all for a bit of modifying let's not get carried away with things. A 4WD Golf with 400HP isn't going to get 'destroyed' by many things!



ian2144

1,660 posts

221 months

Thursday 19th January 2017
quotequote all
yonex said:
[quot



The point you raise on the Golf R is an interesting one. Revo Stage 1 (£700) will bring 350-370HP, Stage 2 400HP. Whilst I am all for a bit of modifying let's not get carried away with things. A 4WD Golf with 400HP isn't going to get 'destroyed' by many things!
A Golf with 400 bhp will most likely destroy itself......!!

underphil

1,245 posts

209 months

Thursday 19th January 2017
quotequote all
yonex said:
JB! said:
An R is 40k+

If I buy a new GT86 at 22/25k and spend 15 on it, I'll have a better starting chassis, and 15k to spend to destroy a standard R...

Different starting points, one is a hot hatch on steroids, one is a purpose built RWD chassis.
I think it's mental dumping circa £40K into a GT86. There's some serious metal out there for that money and all of them, to a car, will be a better financial bet plus likely be faster etc

The point you raise on the Golf R is an interesting one. Revo Stage 1 (£700) will bring 350-370HP, Stage 2 400HP. Whilst I am all for a bit of modifying let's not get carried away with things. A 4WD Golf with 400HP isn't going to get 'destroyed' by many things!
agree, & with the gt86 having 550kg over the back axle, putting huge amounts of power down could be a problem

CABC

5,528 posts

100 months

Thursday 19th January 2017
quotequote all
yonex said:
I think it's mental dumping circa £40K into a GT86. There's some serious metal out there for that money and all of them, to a car, will be a better financial bet plus likely be faster etc

The point you raise on the Golf R is an interesting one. Revo Stage 1 (£700) will bring 350-370HP, Stage 2 400HP. Whilst I am all for a bit of modifying let's not get carried away with things. A 4WD Golf with 400HP isn't going to get 'destroyed' by many things!
i'd agree.
mods normally depreciate towards zero upon fitting. Mods are a pure cost, though as an enthusiast i'm happy with that to a degree. But 15k is definitely enthusiastic!
86 is fine with 5k of mods to give a little more go and crisper response.

I wouldn't dump any cash into an R though. At that price point i'd simply move up to Lotus or Porsche - those are different directions, true, but worthy of investment.

Mr. Potato Head

1,142 posts

218 months

Thursday 19th January 2017
quotequote all
ian2144 said:
FIREBIRDC9 said:
em177 said:
These threads all end up going the same way and becoming a little silly.

There are more competent cars out there. There are faster cars out there. There are better looking cars out there. There are cheaper cars out there.

But I'm yet to drive a car which puts such a smile on my face as this one. Every time you get in it. You don't have to be a drift king. After a long sensible drive home, flicking the stability stuff off and coming out of the last roundabout before the house with a dab of opposite lock on makes the whole thing worthwhile.

This is a petrolheads forum. Toyota (in 2017) can sell you a rear wheel drive, normally aspirated (crucial), manual, sports coupe with a locking diff for around 25 grand.

Yes you could buy a Golf R. Yes it will be faster and more competent. You can go boast to your mates that you've got 300bhp, that you look good in the company car park amongst the mere plebs in their GTD's (until they nick your wing mirror covers) You'll no doubt get all errect over the quality of your heated seat button action.

But I'd rather be a few hundred yards down the road behind. Grinning.

If you don't understand that then that's fine. But that's your problem. Not the cars.

Edited by em177 on Sunday 15th January 22:27
Truer words have never been spoken!
Totally agree with this..!!
Me too

RDMcG

Original Poster:

19,093 posts

206 months

Thursday 19th January 2017
quotequote all
ian2144 said:
FIREBIRDC9 said:
em177 said:
But I'd rather be a few hundred yards down the road behind. Grinning.

If you don't understand that then that's fine. But that's your problem. Not the cars.

Edited by em177 on Sunday 15th January 22:27
Truer words have never been spoken!
Totally agree with this..!!
This is exactly what I was curious about when I posted the thread, whether there are still people like em177 out there whom I would regard as true petrol heads. There still are, as the discussion here shows, but I do fear that their numbers are declining, hence the lower than expected sales volume.

DoubleD

22,154 posts

107 months

Thursday 19th January 2017
quotequote all
Thats all fine. I do agree that a good chassis is more fun than lots of power. But you cant say that people arent petrol heads just because they dont like one particular car, or even one particular part of a car, like a duff engine if reviews are to be trusted.

LIVY

67 posts

243 months

Thursday 19th January 2017
quotequote all
RDMcG said:
ian2144 said:
FIREBIRDC9 said:
em177 said:
But I'd rather be a few hundred yards down the road behind. Grinning.

If you don't understand that then that's fine. But that's your problem. Not the cars.

Edited by em177 on Sunday 15th January 22:27
Truer words have never been spoken!
Totally agree with this..!!
As a GT86 owner for the last three years I've read this post with interest. It does seem that many people have missed the point of this type of car.......trying to compare it to the latest hot hatches with significant BHP / MPG etc etc. The GT86 is and continues to be geared towards those who just enjoy driving & want to feel totally connected with the experience. I'm still grinning after all these years & as a daily drive it comes close to the enjoyment I get from my Honda'd Lotus Elise S1 which IMHO says a lot.

RobDickinson

31,343 posts

253 months

Thursday 19th January 2017
quotequote all
"Toyota (in 2017) can sell you a rear wheel drive, normally aspirated (crucial), manual, sports coupe with a locking diff for around 25 grand. "

Mazda will sell you pretty much that but with a drop top roof/auto hard top for £18-22k.

I think the number of petrol heads out there is limited, the range of cars they look at is large ( hot hatches, bmw m's, jaguars, Lotus etc etc etc etc).

Then you have to couple that with the practical requirements of owning a car in the UK ( or anywhere). Just owning a car is expensive, insurance, tax etc. Plus family issues etc. So most people compromise somewhat on the car they buy.

GT86 is in a small market and not so practical a car...

LasseV

1,754 posts

132 months

Thursday 19th January 2017
quotequote all
tejr said:
Hmmm.. Golf "R"'s and other hot hatches do nothing for me..

I felt the GT86 may be a nice spiritual successor to cars like my old 200sx (S14a shape).. 30-40bhp from a remap isn't aggressive enough for my liking (you may as well keep it stock for the expense of it all)
Well 30-40hp gains in fairly light car is a quite a big improvement and definitely noticeable. I bet that engine character changes for better too. Standard car can break just under 15 sec in a quarter mile. With those mods it can go under 14 sec. I'm talking about quarter mile times because they are so well documented and maybe they will give a better clue for people what happens when you get more oomp under your hood in real life.

Of course it is one's own decision where he want's to use his money etc. Personally i'm not after a huge hp but i do like little bit of speciality in my own car. I noticed that i don't like that much modern stock engines. They lack character and so on, so i thing almost every car needs some nice basic mods, ie exhaust and remap. And weight savings etc laugh

V8RX7

26,762 posts

262 months

Thursday 19th January 2017
quotequote all
em177 said:
These threads all end up going the same way and becoming a little silly.

There are more competent cars out there. There are faster cars out there. There are better looking cars out there. There are cheaper cars out there.

But I'm yet to drive a car which puts such a smile on my face as this one. Every time you get in it. You don't have to be a drift king. After a long sensible drive home, flicking the stability stuff off and coming out of the last roundabout before the house with a dab of opposite lock on makes the whole thing worthwhile.

This is a petrolheads forum. Toyota (in 2017) can sell you a rear wheel drive, normally aspirated (crucial), manual, sports coupe with a locking diff for around 25 grand.

But I'd rather be a few hundred yards down the road behind. Grinning.

If you don't understand that then that's fine. But that's your problem. Not the cars.
Except that the MX5 does that better, cheaper and with a soft top.

IF the rear seats were usable then you'd have a point.

The 350Z would have been a far better seller as a 2+2 as well, those of us who have to take the kids to school etc cannot manage with a 2 seater and what Manual, RWD 2+2 are available ?

Flibble

6,470 posts

180 months

Friday 20th January 2017
quotequote all
underphil said:
not really true though - look at the Cosworth dyno above, even with manifold / full exhaust and remap there's still a massive torque dip, just in a slightly different part of the rev range
It depends on the manifold and mapping. Mine has much less of a torque dip than any of those Cosworth N/A setups:



As for practicality, I managed to fit some 8 foot 2x4s in it today, with the boot closed, so there's that. wink

Tuvra

7,920 posts

224 months

Friday 20th January 2017
quotequote all
JB! said:
An R is 40k+

If I buy a new GT86 at 22/25k and spend 15 on it, I'll have a better starting chassis, and 15k to spend to destroy a standard R...

Different starting points, one is a hot hatch on steroids, one is a purpose built RWD chassis.
Golf R £40k? They are £27,574 on Broadspeed.

So lets put a £28,174 Golf R (£600 Revo Stage 1) versus a £28,274 GT86 and lets see what destroys what.

I'm not knocking the GT86 in anyway, I know full well the R is a completely different kind of car versus the GT86, I just think the statement "Truth to be told, GT86 has way more potential than Golf R ever has" is absolute bks. Finding a handful of cars that were set up at huge costs (probably by development/tuning companies) to do one thing means absolutely nothing when considering its "tuning potential".

em177

3,127 posts

163 months

Friday 20th January 2017
quotequote all
V8RX7 said:
em177 said:
These threads all end up going the same way and becoming a little silly.

There are more competent cars out there. There are faster cars out there. There are better looking cars out there. There are cheaper cars out there.

But I'm yet to drive a car which puts such a smile on my face as this one. Every time you get in it. You don't have to be a drift king. After a long sensible drive home, flicking the stability stuff off and coming out of the last roundabout before the house with a dab of opposite lock on makes the whole thing worthwhile.

This is a petrolheads forum. Toyota (in 2017) can sell you a rear wheel drive, normally aspirated (crucial), manual, sports coupe with a locking diff for around 25 grand.

But I'd rather be a few hundred yards down the road behind. Grinning.

If you don't understand that then that's fine. But that's your problem. Not the cars.
Except that the MX5 does that better
I've owned, raced, tracked and done most things in Mx5's NA-ND and have to disagree.

That's a personal thing mind as better is very subjective.

sicourt

76 posts

110 months

Friday 20th January 2017
quotequote all
I can see the appeal of this car - and I do get the point that driving enjoyment is not necessarily related to how much power you have at your disposal. I just would never buy a GT86 new (I do generally buy new cars) - as a £10k second hand, second car, potentially. I don't think it is overpriced as such, but it seems that most people who claim to desire / want this type of car, for whatever reason, will not put their money where their mouths are in terms of a new purchase, myself included. I guess time has moved on from the 90's where there were a lot of people who would hapily compromise on a bit of polish, to use this type of car as their only car / daily driver.

Edited by sicourt on Friday 20th January 11:25

SonicShadow

2,452 posts

153 months

Friday 20th January 2017
quotequote all
CABC said:
i'd agree.
mods normally depreciate towards zero upon fitting. Mods are a pure cost, though as an enthusiast i'm happy with that to a degree. But 15k is definitely enthusiastic!
86 is fine with 5k of mods to give a little more go and crisper response.

I wouldn't dump any cash into an R though. At that price point i'd simply move up to Lotus or Porsche - those are different directions, true, but worthy of investment.
Well, that depends on what mods. Removable stuff usually has a healthy 2nd hand market so you can make a fair chunk of your money back that way providing you've kept your standard bits to go back on it.

threespires

4,289 posts

210 months

Friday 20th January 2017
quotequote all
Journo's were at Guadix testing the BRZ version on Tuesday. Vids are starting to appear on YouTube


https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=l6lcUaCakKI&feat...

Truckosaurus

11,183 posts

283 months

Friday 20th January 2017
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Are there any meaningful changes to the new model or is it just a facelift?

Squadrone Rosso

2,740 posts

146 months

Friday 20th January 2017
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Truckosaurus said:
Are there any meaningful changes to the new model or is it just a facelift?
Stiffer body shell (more spot welds) & slightly revised suspension. The rest, inside & out, is just cosmetic.

We love our Sept 15 GT86. Had loads of more powerful cars but it's a proper smile machine if you actually enjoy the art of driving.