- The riddle pf the Toyota GT86- the car for purist drivers.
Discussion
Gary C said:
Thing is, what real alternatives are there to a gt86 ?
Who else sells a rwd coupe with a real manual gearbox for 24k
And again, do you not see the irony of the fact you've a RWD coupe with a real manual gearbox that "could" be bought for £24K??Who else sells a rwd coupe with a real manual gearbox for 24k
And if its "that" good, why have you a used Porsche, rather than a new GT86?
Gary C said:
not many people seem to want a rwd coupe, just a car with bragging rights (mines faster than yours).
And if thats really such a big thing for you how come two of your previous cars were a Subaru STI and an EVO?Two cars totally associated with the "mines faster than yours" brigade.
Gary C said:
Thing is, what real alternatives are there to a gt86 ?
Who else sells a rwd coupe with a real manual gearbox for 24k
Problem for Toyota seems to be, not many people seem to want a rwd coupe, just a car with bragging rights (mines faster than yours).
Would be very interesting if they did a supercharged version with 350hp to see if it suddenly became the darling car of the fast car masses
But it probably would ruin it.
Actually, re-reading this, was this all supposed to be tongue-in-cheek and ironic, given how far it seems to be from your reality for you??Who else sells a rwd coupe with a real manual gearbox for 24k
Problem for Toyota seems to be, not many people seem to want a rwd coupe, just a car with bragging rights (mines faster than yours).
Would be very interesting if they did a supercharged version with 350hp to see if it suddenly became the darling car of the fast car masses
But it probably would ruin it.
Why are the posters who don't like the GT86 so angry about it?
As has been mentioned, they are selling well in other countries, so the target market clearly exists.
<flame suit on>
Maybe just not in Britain - it's neither German nor convertible, and Toyota is not a "premium" badge.
<flame suit off>
As has been mentioned, they are selling well in other countries, so the target market clearly exists.
<flame suit on>
Maybe just not in Britain - it's neither German nor convertible, and Toyota is not a "premium" badge.
<flame suit off>
daemon said:
Gary C said:
Especially as a 911 owner myself 
Did you really just come out with that big pro GT86 speech and tell us about how all these other shallow people only buy a faster car for bragging rights and then just "happen" to NEED to tell us you've a 911???:rotfl:
Can you not see the irony there? Pot. Kettle. Black perhaps?
Yes I have a 911 Carrera, but it's only got 260hp.
I can appreciate a nice, balanced chassis without needing ultimate power.
There are not many NEW cars with the gt86's attributes, so why aren't they flying off the forecourts.
Can only be because it's not giving the majority what they want.
So what do they want ? The one thing that the 86 seems to 'lack' is power and why is that a problem ?
200hp is enough to exploit a chassis, but not enough for their mates respect maybe ?
I will have a gt86 in the nearish future to run along side the Carrera.
So, yes I do think people dismiss the 86 because somehow they feel it's not 'enough', they won't get the 'respect' they want.
I mean, why do people want a golf R ?
daemon said:
Gary C said:
The 86 btw looks better than the Boxter.
Its BOXSTER.B-O-X-S-T-E-R
Jesus man, call your self a car enthusiast.
And Gary, I agree with what you say - it doesn't have enough power for most people these days. The majority don't know or care about chassis,steering etc. It's all speed and grip. And low lease payments of course.
daemon said:
Gary C said:
not many people seem to want a rwd coupe, just a car with bragging rights (mines faster than yours).
And if thats really such a big thing for you how come two of your previous cars were a Subaru STI and an EVO?Two cars totally associated with the "mines faster than yours" brigade.
Yes the Subaru and the Evo had lots of power but they were more than that, certainly the Evo was a gnats from a competition car, fantastic engineering (stripping a rear diff down is fun) rather than just about the power.
Don't mean that power is not good, just why is the 86 not selling too well and it must be that the people who won't buy it do so because they cant get over the perceived lack of power rather than what the car does well.
Nothing wrong with a fast powerful car, but a lot to like about a well balanced chassis, rwd and a manual gearbox.
AW111 said:
Why are the posters who don't like the GT86 so angry about it?
Because we are being told that we're not real "car enthusiasts" because we arent fawning over the GT86 and that we "need" to buy cars with more power for "bragging rights".I dont dislike the GT86 - i just think it could do with either being cheaper OR having more power (or ideally both).
What i dislike is being told i'm not a car enthusiast because i dare to criticise the "mighty" GT86 - usually by people who havent actually bought a GT86 anyway - but might. Someday. But probably wont really.
Edited by daemon on Sunday 22 January 12:42
irish boy said:
Seems to me on this thread that anyone that doesn't have one doesn't 'get' the car, yet anyone that has actually bought one is absolutely loving it with Saturday morning drives and track days.
It is just my type of car, hopefully someday soon there will be room in the garage.
If you DO track days and saturday morning drives, then great, i'm sure its perfect. It is just my type of car, hopefully someday soon there will be room in the garage.
What about the vast majority of PHers who dont?
AW111 said:
As has been mentioned, they are selling well in other countries, so the target market clearly exists.
They sell well in other countries where one or more of :-(a) the car is relatively better priced
(b) the people who are most likely to want the car can afford to insure them.
(c) the car is better supported in the market with decent finance packages than Toyota UK do.
(d) you're not going to end up having to buy from a disinterested dealership who would really rather sell some old granny a Yaris.
AW111 said:
<flame suit on>
Maybe just not in Britain - it's neither German nor convertible, and Toyota is not a "premium" badge.
<flame suit off>
Our previous car was a 370Z GT, and we've owned and bought brand in in the past an MR2 and a Toyota Celica (so we've "history" with Toyota). We've also owned various other coupes - BMW Z4 3.0Si for example, various 330Ci coupes, and our reasons for not buying a GT86 were not enough power and too expensive. Maybe just not in Britain - it's neither German nor convertible, and Toyota is not a "premium" badge.
<flame suit off>
That seems to be pretty much reiterated anywhere theres criticism of the GT86 (along with poor power delivery) - i dont think too many people - either reviewers or prospective owners - have given the reasons you said?
Edited by daemon on Sunday 22 January 12:44
Gary C said:
There are not many NEW cars with the gt86's attributes, so why aren't they flying off the forecourts.
Can only be because it's not giving the majority what they want.
So what do they want ? The one thing that the 86 seems to 'lack' is power and why is that a problem ?
As has been reiterated by people who have been in a position to buy one but havent, and by the vast bulk of motoring reviews - nice enough car, but not enough power for the price.Can only be because it's not giving the majority what they want.
So what do they want ? The one thing that the 86 seems to 'lack' is power and why is that a problem ?
If they'd come along originally @ £19,995 with decent finance deals, things would have been very different, but a list price of £28K for one with a bit of spec, uninspiring finance deals and buy from a disinterested dealer network is all a big ask when you can buy a Focus RS, Megane RS, etc - which for most people will be the more practical cars - for similar money.
This doesnt seem difficult to me? Not sure why some people people cant get their head round the real reasons and have to try and label it as "oh its a car for purists / REAL car enthusiasts"
Edited by daemon on Sunday 22 January 12:38
Gary C said:
Good point.
Yes the Subaru and the Evo had lots of power but they were more than that, certainly the Evo was a gnats from a competition car, fantastic engineering (stripping a rear diff down is fun) rather than just about the power.
Don't mean that power is not good, just why is the 86 not selling too well and it must be that the people who won't buy it do so because they cant get over the perceived lack of power rather than what the car does well.
Nothing wrong with a fast powerful car, but a lot to like about a well balanced chassis, rwd and a manual gearbox.
Exactly - so why were you saying that the OTHER people might buy OTHER more powerful cars were purely for bragging rights? Yes the Subaru and the Evo had lots of power but they were more than that, certainly the Evo was a gnats from a competition car, fantastic engineering (stripping a rear diff down is fun) rather than just about the power.
Don't mean that power is not good, just why is the 86 not selling too well and it must be that the people who won't buy it do so because they cant get over the perceived lack of power rather than what the car does well.
Nothing wrong with a fast powerful car, but a lot to like about a well balanced chassis, rwd and a manual gearbox.
When clearly there are perfectly good reasons for having a car with more power - as youve just described?
Edited by daemon on Sunday 22 January 12:47
daemon said:
Because we are being told that we're not real "car enthusiasts" because we arent fawning over the GT86 and that we "need" to buy cars with more power for "bragging rights".
I dont dislike the GT86 - i just think it could do with either being cheaper OR having more power (or ideally both).
What i dislike is being told i'm not a car enthusiast because i dare to criticise the "mighty" GT86 - usually by people who havent actually bought a GT86 anyway - but might. Someday. But probably wont really.
Quite. There's a certain unpleasant sneering from some gt86 owners who assume that anyone who doesn't own one just doesn't "get" them.I dont dislike the GT86 - i just think it could do with either being cheaper OR having more power (or ideally both).
What i dislike is being told i'm not a car enthusiast because i dare to criticise the "mighty" GT86 - usually by people who havent actually bought a GT86 anyway - but might. Someday. But probably wont really.
Edited by daemon on Sunday 22 January 12:42
I like to point out to these types that perhaps if they are real enthusiasts they should be driving Caterhams or Elises. It doesn't go down well.
Gary C said:
So, yes I do think people dismiss the 86 because somehow they feel it's not 'enough', they won't get the 'respect' they want.
So when reviews like EVO say things like :-(taken from this 2017 review http://www.evo.co.uk/toyota/gt-86)
=> Wants for a bit more power
=> The 0-62mph sprint doesn’t set the world alight
=> Low torque figure limits low-revs performance
=> The Toyota GT86 is a car that more often than not feels like it needs just a little bit more when it comes to performance
=> the meagre 151lb ft of torque produced at a sky-high 6400rpm.
=> We’re not saying the GT86 needs another 200bhp, just a broader power band and another 50bhp and 50lb ft, which would alleviate some frustration and imbue the driving experience with a little more gusto and verve.
They're actually just saying all that and in reality, when they were driving it they didnt get the respect they wanted??
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