Small Manufacturer Franchised Dealers.
Discussion
Jim AK said:
Not sure why you think the manufacturer owning the outlet is different to any other PLC owning them. They are there for prospective owners to look at the range available & provide service & maintenance etc, a Tesla is still going to require periodic maintenance like brake & lighting replacement, they will unfortunately get accident damage or have other failures like any car, they are not totally reliant on a `Geek` with a computer tablet!!
Mercedes still own sites in the UK despite selling a large number here & around the world in the last year or so to a foreign company. Do you really think the investor did that just for a 5 year trading position?
I also do not think people will use `self drive uber` to get around all the time either. How would that work if someone wants to get from a remote location to work every day? The idea may have some traction in a large city, although even that would be difficult at peak times, but never in smaller towns & villages across the UK. People also like to be spontaneous or have a situation arise where they need to leave immediately so waiting is not convenient to them
As regard dealers becoming redundant or unprofitable, that is nonsense imo they will adapt to current & future markets as they & any other type of business always does.
I suggest you go read a few business pages to see the sums of money being secured by retail groups to fund long term expansion as I`m pretty sure none of them or their advisors have done it for the short term.
The sums involved are just way too high.
Well a dealer is just that, a dealer. A manufacturer can't be a dealership as they are just selling their own products. Mercedes still own sites in the UK despite selling a large number here & around the world in the last year or so to a foreign company. Do you really think the investor did that just for a 5 year trading position?
I also do not think people will use `self drive uber` to get around all the time either. How would that work if someone wants to get from a remote location to work every day? The idea may have some traction in a large city, although even that would be difficult at peak times, but never in smaller towns & villages across the UK. People also like to be spontaneous or have a situation arise where they need to leave immediately so waiting is not convenient to them
As regard dealers becoming redundant or unprofitable, that is nonsense imo they will adapt to current & future markets as they & any other type of business always does.
I suggest you go read a few business pages to see the sums of money being secured by retail groups to fund long term expansion as I`m pretty sure none of them or their advisors have done it for the short term.
The sums involved are just way too high.
Lots of business cannot or won't adapt (remember kodak?)
We can leave this here and revisit it in 2027 and see what the score is then.
Iva Barchetta said:
There are some small Ford dealers not part of huge chains,usually in bit of a remote place.
Ford presumably want to keep an albeit small presence there.
There's one in West Wickham,not very remote,Kent,Croydon border.
Forget the name.
EJ Balaam, I've used them several times, much preferred (and often cheaper) than the likes of Bristol Street or Dagenham Motors locally, recommended Ford presumably want to keep an albeit small presence there.
There's one in West Wickham,not very remote,Kent,Croydon border.
Forget the name.
Hill Ford in Wimborne.
Nice little family garage I take my Focus to, but official Ford servicing and the free recovery you get with that.
http://hillandson.org/
Nice little family garage I take my Focus to, but official Ford servicing and the free recovery you get with that.
http://hillandson.org/
Jim AK said:
Reminds me of when Mc Donalds sold their own brand of Cola. If you asked for a Coke with your Entrail Burger the spotty server would pompously say `Its Mc Donalds Cola`...... Does it f
king matter?
No, you're being pompous. The 'spotty server' has to point out that it won't be Coca-Cola to make sure that you're aware of it. If you thought you were getting a Coca-Cola and bought it on that basis, you could have recourse against McDonalds. It's not because the server is proud or pompous because McDonalds branded a soft drink.king matter?Anyway. Someone I know had a Ford franchise until it was awarded elsewhere. He's very bitter about it. I've no idea if his performance was any good though
Read on the news that Clelands (that's John Cleland ex-racing driver) Galashiels has sold on the Jaguar franchise to Lloyds of Carlisle to their site in Kelso - in line with JLR amalgamating both Jag and Land Rover to one site.
Cleland still have Volvo though and as far as I'm aware it's the only one site he owns.
In Edinburgh there still seems to be a bit of a movement and turnaround - Eastern Western group have a few, but as usual Arnold has a monopoly - they even run a few Mercedes garages which I found surprising! I will miss some of the independent franchises, but they can't compete on cost or whatever demands the manufacturer want from a showroom.
Cleland still have Volvo though and as far as I'm aware it's the only one site he owns.
In Edinburgh there still seems to be a bit of a movement and turnaround - Eastern Western group have a few, but as usual Arnold has a monopoly - they even run a few Mercedes garages which I found surprising! I will miss some of the independent franchises, but they can't compete on cost or whatever demands the manufacturer want from a showroom.
When I was growing up in a small village called Sutton Bridge there was a Leesons dealership there that still seems to be going strong. My dad bought a Ford Orion there in the early 90's and they were fantastic. Owner always had his hot ford parked outside (Escort RS, MK1 Focus RS, Mondeo ST 220 etc).
Creamers was an amazing place. Done in by Jaguar insisting all dealers double their sales and include Land Rover and conform to the modern look and feel. Its a shame they could have really made a thing of the place being the queens dealer etc. Same with their refusal to buy Wappenbury Hall, they could locate their museum at the home of William Lyons but no.
Trouble is that once companies become too big they forget their roots
As for the premises owned directly by the manufactures not being dealers what tosh! Unlike buying say an electrical appliance where you just go and buy your washing machine buying a new car is a "deal" because you agree a price based on what they will give you for your trade in. This happens even if they are manufacturer owned. Try going into Currys and haggling and see how far it gets you. When did anyone last pay retail price for a new car?
Trouble is that once companies become too big they forget their roots
As for the premises owned directly by the manufactures not being dealers what tosh! Unlike buying say an electrical appliance where you just go and buy your washing machine buying a new car is a "deal" because you agree a price based on what they will give you for your trade in. This happens even if they are manufacturer owned. Try going into Currys and haggling and see how far it gets you. When did anyone last pay retail price for a new car?
Jimmy Recard said:
No, you're being pompous. The 'spotty server' has to point out that it won't be Coca-Cola to make sure that you're aware of it. If you thought you were getting a Coca-Cola and bought it on that basis, you could have recourse against McDonalds. It's not because the server is proud or pompous because McDonalds branded a soft drink.
Anyway. Someone I know had a Ford franchise until it was awarded elsewhere. He's very bitter about it. I've no idea if his performance was any good though
Back then, probably the 80's, nobody would have dreamed of taking 'recourse' over a soft drink in the UK, something else we can thank America for I suppose!Anyway. Someone I know had a Ford franchise until it was awarded elsewhere. He's very bitter about it. I've no idea if his performance was any good though
As regards your Ford person, I'd imagine his performance had nothing to do with it at all & it was probably as a result of his 'Main Dealer' wanting his market, assuming Ford still operated the Retail Dealer system.
Jim AK said:
Back then, probably the 80's, nobody would have dreamed of taking 'recourse' over a soft drink in the UK, something else we can thank America for I suppose!
As regards your Ford person, I'd imagine his performance had nothing to do with it at all & it was probably as a result of his 'Main Dealer' wanting his market, assuming Ford still operated the Retail Dealer system.
Well, either way I would think that whoever told you had had it drummed into them by a manager that they must make sure you're aware!As regards your Ford person, I'd imagine his performance had nothing to do with it at all & it was probably as a result of his 'Main Dealer' wanting his market, assuming Ford still operated the Retail Dealer system.
I thought of posting some more details on what he said about losing his Ford franchise, but that could be a bad idea
ETA: there was also another small, independent Ford dealer nearby that ceased to be a Ford dealer around the same time but I haven't heard anything about that
jamoor said:
Well a dealer is just that, a dealer. A manufacturer can't be a dealership as they are just selling their own products.
Lots of business cannot or won't adapt (remember kodak?)
We can leave this here and revisit it in 2027 and see what the score is then.
What are you talking about. A manufacturer can't be a dealership because they are selling their own products?Lots of business cannot or won't adapt (remember kodak?)
We can leave this here and revisit it in 2027 and see what the score is then.
Dealers & manufacturers can, have & will adapt. Electric models, Hybrid models. These are all an adaptation of the car by the manufacturer & the Dealers have adapted to enable them to facilitate what the owners of them require.
Do you really believe a Dealer group, Venture Capitalists, or any other PLC is going to borrow tens of millions for a 10 year venture?
Jimmy Recard said:
Well, either way I would think that whoever told you had had it drummed into them by a manager that they must make sure you're aware!
I thought of posting some more details on what he said about losing his Ford franchise, but that could be a bad idea
ETA: there was also another small, independent Ford dealer nearby that ceased to be a Ford dealer around the same time but I haven't heard anything about that
Probably a good idea not to!I thought of posting some more details on what he said about losing his Ford franchise, but that could be a bad idea
ETA: there was also another small, independent Ford dealer nearby that ceased to be a Ford dealer around the same time but I haven't heard anything about that
I did post as to how the small Dealers did their 'thing' years ago (1980's) earlier in the thread but I don't know how they work it now.
I guess the big groups have massive sway these days..
Collected one of our office cars from a service earlier (JLR product) & when I read their magazine thing in reception, I saw that they are part of a 12 or more dealer group that has over 15 franchises within it. One that really hit me was a Ford dealer in South London that I remembered from my Ford years & im sure was family owned then.
Jim AK said:
What are you talking about. A manufacturer can't be a dealership because they are selling their own products?
Dealers & manufacturers can, have & will adapt. Electric models, Hybrid models. These are all an adaptation of the car by the manufacturer & the Dealers have adapted to enable them to facilitate what the owners of them require.
Do you really believe a Dealer group, Venture Capitalists, or any other PLC is going to borrow tens of millions for a 10 year venture?
A dealership is a company that resells other peoples products, in the car industry these are generally wholly independent companies that have a franchise agreement to sell the manufacturers products.Dealers & manufacturers can, have & will adapt. Electric models, Hybrid models. These are all an adaptation of the car by the manufacturer & the Dealers have adapted to enable them to facilitate what the owners of them require.
Do you really believe a Dealer group, Venture Capitalists, or any other PLC is going to borrow tens of millions for a 10 year venture?
These dealers make money in one of three ways
Used car sales
New car sales
Parts and servicing
The bulk of revenue is made from parts and servicing.
Electric cars require little to no servicing.
Driverless cars on rent again require no servicing from a consumer (why have a large glass and chrome place if you're dealing with only repairs ) or even off car makers run vehicle fleets? Some car makers now own shares in ride hailing services.
Do you see where the independently owned car dealer may not have a space in the future?
As I said businesses don't always adapt, car makers may well but franchises dealers like we see today will have a hard time.
irish boy said:
There's a small independent family owned VW garage in Lisburn near me called Phillips Volkswagen, they have always been busy with customers who preferred the small business approach and the sales guys have been there for years rather than the big boys who have a high staff turn over.
Then last year they surprised everyone by buying a greenfield site and building the biggest most state of the art Volkswagen showroom in the country. It's absolutely fantastic. Apparently the sytner group were up the walls to VW about it but there was nothing they could do.
Good on them and every success.
But that's how they become the big bad guys. Big new premises and costs cost. The old guys who have their oldways and own sales approach will get big pressure, they'll leave, new sales guys come in...rinse and repeat.Then last year they surprised everyone by buying a greenfield site and building the biggest most state of the art Volkswagen showroom in the country. It's absolutely fantastic. Apparently the sytner group were up the walls to VW about it but there was nothing they could do.
Good on them and every success.
jamoor said:
A dealership is a company that resells other peoples products, in the car industry these are generally wholly independent companies that have a franchise agreement to sell the manufacturers products.
These dealers make money in one of three ways
Used car sales
New car sales
Parts and servicing
The bulk of revenue is made from parts and servicing.
Electric cars require little to no servicing.
Driverless cars on rent again require no servicing from a consumer (why have a large glass and chrome place if you're dealing with only repairs ) or even off car makers run vehicle fleets? Some car makers now own shares in ride hailing services.
Do you see where the independently owned car dealer may not have a space in the future?
As I said businesses don't always adapt, car makers may well but franchises dealers like we see today will have a hard time.
So why are all these Dealer groups borrowing countless millions to buy existing businesses & in some cases to buy the manufacturers outlets?These dealers make money in one of three ways
Used car sales
New car sales
Parts and servicing
The bulk of revenue is made from parts and servicing.
Electric cars require little to no servicing.
Driverless cars on rent again require no servicing from a consumer (why have a large glass and chrome place if you're dealing with only repairs ) or even off car makers run vehicle fleets? Some car makers now own shares in ride hailing services.
Do you see where the independently owned car dealer may not have a space in the future?
As I said businesses don't always adapt, car makers may well but franchises dealers like we see today will have a hard time.
There is no way it is because they won't survive beyond 2027
Therefore Il assume you are being deliberately obtuse.
Jim AK said:
So why are all these Dealer groups borrowing countless millions to buy existing businesses & in some cases to buy the manufacturers outlets?
There is no way it is because they won't survive beyond 2027
Therefore Il assume you are being deliberately obtuse.
Companies make silly business decisions all the time...There is no way it is because they won't survive beyond 2027
Therefore Il assume you are being deliberately obtuse.
Once upon a time Panam was the name in air travel
Once upon a time Nokia was the name in mobile phones
One upon a time tesco was opening stores and dominating the grocery market in the UK
As I said we can see this again in ten years and I'm happy to be proven incorrect.
Edited by jamoor on Tuesday 17th January 20:43
jamoor said:
A dealership is a company that resells other peoples products
Eh? where did you get that definition from?So.... Fiat have a "dealership" around the back of Oxford Street in London..... What type of business is that then?
From their own website.....
Motorvilage said:
We are brand professionals with Fiat: for stylish, economical and fun motoring as well as Alfa Romeo, with all its executive style. We also carry the iconic and sporty Abarth brand and Jeep, the leader in off road capability.
Open 7 days a week, we offer a full range of services including, new and used car sales, aftercare, parts & servicing, business & fleet and Motability.
We are part of the wider Motor Village group of dealers which is exclusively owned by the manufacturer. There are 2 showrooms in the UK as well as sites across Europe and in major cities throughout the US.
Open 7 days a week, we offer a full range of services including, new and used car sales, aftercare, parts & servicing, business & fleet and Motability.
We are part of the wider Motor Village group of dealers which is exclusively owned by the manufacturer. There are 2 showrooms in the UK as well as sites across Europe and in major cities throughout the US.
craigjm said:
jamoor said:
A dealership is a company that resells other peoples products
Eh? where did you get that definition from?So.... Fiat have a "dealership" around the back of Oxford Street in London..... What type of business is that then?
From their own website.....
Motorvilage said:
We are brand professionals with Fiat: for stylish, economical and fun motoring as well as Alfa Romeo, with all its executive style. We also carry the iconic and sporty Abarth brand and Jeep, the leader in off road capability.
Open 7 days a week, we offer a full range of services including, new and used car sales, aftercare, parts & servicing, business & fleet and Motability.
We are part of the wider Motor Village group of dealers which is exclusively owned by the manufacturer. There are 2 showrooms in the UK as well as sites across Europe and in major cities throughout the US.
Open 7 days a week, we offer a full range of services including, new and used car sales, aftercare, parts & servicing, business & fleet and Motability.
We are part of the wider Motor Village group of dealers which is exclusively owned by the manufacturer. There are 2 showrooms in the UK as well as sites across Europe and in major cities throughout the US.
When apple sells phones in its own shops, are the shops phone dealers? Or are the apple authorised dealers that they have in some cities phone dealers?
You do recognise the difference between a manufacturer selling their own product and selling it exclusively through intermediaries?
You can look up subway and McDonald's too.
In the UK some McDonald's stores are owned by McDonald's themselves. Others are franchises.
In the case of Subway, all of their stores are franchises.
I'm suspecting that you aren't a businessperson and just have a 9-5 job.
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