Rumours of Zenos into administration..

Rumours of Zenos into administration..

Author
Discussion

Yipper

5,964 posts

89 months

Thursday 19th January 2017
quotequote all
Suspect there is more to come on this one.

The reason of "cancelled exports" -- at a time of mildly recovering EU economies and the plunging Pound making the car 10-20% cheaper to buy -- does not really ring true. Time will tell, of course.

Imagine Lotus and Caterham will be laughing their socks off right now. The Zenos was / is basically a Lotus-Caterham hybrid and did not really bring anything new to the table.

Z3MCJez

531 posts

171 months

Thursday 19th January 2017
quotequote all
Yipper said:
Suspect there is more to come on this one.

The reason of "cancelled exports" -- at a time of mildly recovering EU economies and the plunging Pound making the car 10-20% cheaper to buy -- does not really ring true. Time will tell, of course.

Imagine Lotus and Caterham will be laughing their socks off right now. The Zenos was / is basically a Lotus-Caterham hybrid and did not really bring anything new to the table.
I doubt Caterham will be laughing at the failure of a small lightweight car manufacturer ... However, I bet they are looking very closely at this. They have been stating that they want to diversify beyond the 7 and this offers an already developed car / tooling which is pretty complementary to what Caterham already offer. Get one with a roof and they have a product line to fill the dealerships.

And all this off the back of announcing record sales of the 7.

I suspect Ginetta might have a look at this too, but I don't see the fit with them being good. They are going ever-upmarket. And the last thing Lotus needs is another car in its line up! My bet is that Caterham pay cost for the stock, take on some employees, and get the tooling and IP for free. If that's the case, it would make sense to buy the Zenos for sale at PT Sports at a knock-down price. Of course, if nobody buys the tooling, you've just bought yourself a car that is pretty much unrepairable in a crash and I'm sure the insurance premiums will confirm that for you!

Jez

DonkeyApple

54,921 posts

168 months

Thursday 19th January 2017
quotequote all
I honestly can't see any existing track/road manufacturer being that interested. Caterham would want to develop their own, it serves no benefit for Lotus and Ginetta don't make road cars and when they did they were ill finished, massively overpriced rubbish.

jeremyc

23,335 posts

283 months

Thursday 19th January 2017
quotequote all
DonkeyApple said:
I honestly can't see any existing track/road manufacturer being that interested. Caterham would want to develop their own, it serves no benefit for Lotus and Ginetta don't make road cars and when they did they were ill finished, massively overpriced rubbish.
scratchchin Entry level model for TVR that would allow them to get to market immediately? biggrin

Yipper

5,964 posts

89 months

Thursday 19th January 2017
quotequote all
Z3MCJez said:
Yipper said:
Suspect there is more to come on this one.

The reason of "cancelled exports" -- at a time of mildly recovering EU economies and the plunging Pound making the car 10-20% cheaper to buy -- does not really ring true. Time will tell, of course.

Imagine Lotus and Caterham will be laughing their socks off right now. The Zenos was / is basically a Lotus-Caterham hybrid and did not really bring anything new to the table.
I doubt Caterham will be laughing at the failure of a small lightweight car manufacturer ... However, I bet they are looking very closely at this. They have been stating that they want to diversify beyond the 7 and this offers an already developed car / tooling which is pretty complementary to what Caterham already offer. Get one with a roof and they have a product line to fill the dealerships.

And all this off the back of announcing record sales of the 7.

I suspect Ginetta might have a look at this too, but I don't see the fit with them being good. They are going ever-upmarket. And the last thing Lotus needs is another car in its line up! My bet is that Caterham pay cost for the stock, take on some employees, and get the tooling and IP for free. If that's the case, it would make sense to buy the Zenos for sale at PT Sports at a knock-down price. Of course, if nobody buys the tooling, you've just bought yourself a car that is pretty much unrepairable in a crash and I'm sure the insurance premiums will confirm that for you!

Jez
Nah. Caterham will be wetting themselves. Zenos was set up by ex-Caterham staff who then tried to stick it to their old employer. They lost.

MTech535

613 posts

110 months

Thursday 19th January 2017
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I thought they were ex McLaren

ads_green

838 posts

231 months

Thursday 19th January 2017
quotequote all
Yipper said:
Suspect there is more to come on this one.

The reason of "cancelled exports" -- at a time of mildly recovering EU economies and the plunging Pound making the car 10-20% cheaper to buy -- does not really ring true. Time will tell, of course.

Imagine Lotus and Caterham will be laughing their socks off right now. The Zenos was / is basically a Lotus-Caterham hybrid and did not really bring anything new to the table.
Hybrid of what elements of lotus / caterham?
Composite carbon passenger cell?
Spine extruded aluminium chassis?
Yes it was in the same market segment but to say it had nothing unique is a little harsh.

baldy1926

2,136 posts

199 months

Thursday 19th January 2017
quotequote all
Article today in the online edp paper
http://www.edp24.co.uk/business/new_anglia_lep_def...

ZOLLAR

19,908 posts

172 months

Thursday 19th January 2017
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If they aren't sold as a going concern (i.e. support network for existing owners remains) I wonder what will happen to values and servicing etc?

There's 9 for sale atm on PH.

http://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds?Category=us...

Will the values remain due to limited production or will they drop due to no support? (I can't imagine it'll be hard to find someone who could service and maintain one and they appear to be well built).

gaz453

387 posts

131 months

Thursday 19th January 2017
quotequote all
It's a shame it's come to an end, but hopefully something can be done and they can start up again, I thoroughly enjoyed working there, we will see what the future holds!

PunterCam

1,069 posts

194 months

Thursday 19th January 2017
quotequote all
That's a wee shame, but not unexpected..

I can see companies like BAC doing really well in the coming years (I hope so), but I think companies like Caterham and Zenos will struggle more and more. People like simple driving pleasures - this much won't ever change - but they also like quality. These little cars have to be works of art - miniature McLarens. "Built in a shed" image doesn't sell, and I think there's more than a hint of that with the Zenos.

To be honest it was never a looker (I'm being generous - it's fking hideous), the off-the-shelf steering wheel screams "kit car" and the website is crap (can I see loads of high quality photos of the car I might buy? No). You don't succeed like that.

Simple is all well and good if someone throws you the keys on a warm summers evening, but when it comes to spending 30 grand? It's got to be the most refined and polished simple you've ever seen.

Anyways, sad.

anonymous-user

53 months

Thursday 19th January 2017
quotequote all
Some may remember that the more "road friendly" Artega GT, built from 2009-2012, suffered exactly the same misfortune.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Artega_GT

The Farboud/Farbio/Ginetta G60 remains completely invisible,
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ginetta_F400

I'm pretty sure the Alfa 4C would be following these into oblivion, but for the fact it's made by a larger car manufacturer.

Like it or not, it's difficult for anyone to succeed with a new sportscar while Porsche is selling the brilliant mid-engined Boxster/Cayman from a modest £40,000

rubystone

11,252 posts

258 months

Thursday 19th January 2017
quotequote all
PunterCam said:
That's a wee shame, but not unexpected..

I can see companies like BAC doing really well in the coming years (I hope so), but I think companies like Caterham and Zenos will struggle more and more. People like simple driving pleasures - this much won't ever change - but they also like quality. These little cars have to be works of art - miniature McLarens. "Built in a shed" image doesn't sell, and I think there's more than a hint of that with the Zenos.

To be honest it was never a looker (I'm being generous - it's fking hideous), the off-the-shelf steering wheel screams "kit car" and the website is crap (can I see loads of high quality photos of the car I might buy? No). You don't succeed like that.

Simple is all well and good if someone throws you the keys on a warm summers evening, but when it comes to spending 30 grand? It's got to be the most refined and polished simple you've ever seen.

Anyways, sad.
What's the starting price of a BAC Mono? Can one be bought for the 30 grand referenced in this post? They do seem very well finished.

anonymous-user

53 months

Thursday 19th January 2017
quotequote all
rubystone said:
What's the starting price of a BAC Mono? Can one be bought for the 30 grand referenced in this post? They do seem very well finished.
Hmm think approximately four times that and you'll be in the right area.


SpudLink

5,669 posts

191 months

Thursday 19th January 2017
quotequote all
Z3MCJez said:
Of course, if nobody buys the tooling, you've just bought yourself a car that is pretty much unrepairable in a crash and I'm sure the insurance premiums will confirm that for you!

Jez
Yeah. That's what I'm thinking right now. Where the hell do I get replacement body panels if I prang it.

Very very disappointed. I knew it was as a big risk putting a deposit on a car from a new company, based on driving the prototype, but I really thought they were here to stay. They were selling more cars than they could make.

I feel for the staff, who were always friendly and went out of their way to be helpful.

Unfortunately I don't have a spare few million, or I would be looking at buying the company myself.



Edited by SpudLink on Thursday 19th January 22:11

blearyeyedboy

6,252 posts

178 months

Thursday 19th January 2017
quotequote all
Arse biscuits. frown I would really have liked this bold innovative company to have flourished in the way it deserved.

Here's hoping that it can be salvaged.

rubystone

11,252 posts

258 months

Thursday 19th January 2017
quotequote all
RSK21 said:
Hmm think approximately four times that and you'll be in the right area.
So if that's the case, isn't it a little disingenuous to compare a Mono with an E10? Better surely to compare an E10 with something in the same price bracket? Other then a Caterfield, what does fit into that bracket? Can one buy a new Elise for £30k for instance?

skwdenyer

16,175 posts

239 months

Friday 20th January 2017
quotequote all
A quick look at Companies House shows that some of the charges appear to have been for peer-to-peer lending secured on specific vehicles. Arranged by https://www.ratesetter.com/ which is at least an interesting approach but, conversely, very hand-to-mouth.

Is the sale document still available? Was all of the WIP mortgaged, or just some completed vehicles?

And, seriously, how much is the going rate for a business like this in administration, and does anybody fancy a good ol'fashioned PT Group Buy? smile

anonymous-user

53 months

Friday 20th January 2017
quotequote all
rubystone said:
RSK21 said:
Hmm think approximately four times that and you'll be in the right area.
So if that's the case, isn't it a little disingenuous to compare a Mono with an E10? Better surely to compare an E10 with something in the same price bracket? Other then a Caterfield, what does fit into that bracket? Can one buy a new Elise for £30k for instance?
That's the thing, I suspect a lot of people criticising the pricing don't know how expensive these low volume toys are. The very cheapest Elise starts at £30,500. The cheapest E10 undercuts that by a good margin, is lighter and has considerably more power, but then is less practical than the Elise. The Atom which is also often mentioned as a competitor is in a different league price-wise.

I think what Zenos did was really smart, they used some very nice components which lent themselves well to future growth, but far more importantly than that they targeted a niche which wasn't very well filled. The E10 is a (relatively) low cost, light weight, stripped back car that worked well on road and track with seriously high performance yet is still approachable, rides well and isn't nervous or skittish at the limit.

Importantly it also works well for taller people which is an area a lot of the competition struggles with, an Elise is impossible for me on a track as my head sticks out over the roll hoop, even an SV chassis Caterham fits like a condom and I'd need a custom roll bar making.

It ticks a lot of boxes for a lot of people, and this was their first car. The fact that as a startup they were having their cars mentioned as viable alternatives to Caterham, Lotus and Ariel is a huge compliment.

It would be a huge shame if the company didn't continue.

Yazza54

18,464 posts

180 months

Friday 20th January 2017
quotequote all
Hopefully it'll get re-booted with a new investor

All the car is missing for me is a decent roof with potentially some kind of removable panel (like my GTM Libra), and windows. People have been buying Elises and VX220s for years, there is a market for Spartan track cars, but no roof isn't much good in the UK.