Why block filtering motorcycles...?

[OverSteery]

xjay1337 said:

OverSteery said:

If you "filter on the motorway at speed" then you should indeed be glad to get home safe each day. I would expect sooner or later you will get taken out and become another wittering biker saying SMIDSY and that how most bike accidents are caused by cars, when your own failures are more pertinent.

we accept the risk and minimise where possible.
many people do it.
we take responsibility should the worst happen
i / we don't need your condescension thank you.

I'd sorry if I was condescending to you, but taking your words at face value you are not minimizing your risk.

As a passionate biker with 10s of years and 100sk miles, I see people on bikes riding like complete ar~eholes all the time and hear them complain it's other people fault when they fall off.

"Many people do it" is also true for using mobile phones whilst driving - it doesn't really make it any better

[xjay1337]

I filter between L2 and L3. Usually when speed difference between L2 vehicle and L3 vehicle is very little. (2-3mph).
My speed difference is around 15-20mph. My road positioning is such that I am clearly visible in the mirrors of the vehicle in front for a few seconds. I don't hang around in the blind spot, I zip through quickly.

Many, many, many times, cars in L3 will indicate right to signal for me to come through on the L2/L3 seperation.

I make the move and say thank you as I always do when anyone makes my life easier when on the bike.

So far I have not had any "close calls". Undertaking a vehicle in L3 when L1 / L2 is clear is dumb. When there is traffic in all lanes, the car is clearly not going to go anywhere.

Is it riskier, yes.
is it a case of risk / reward? absolutely.

RobM77 said:

CaptainCosworth said:

Really? I don't think I've ever seen a car adjust their lane position to allow a motorcyclist to filter on a motorway.

I do this once or twice a day and always have done, provided it won't mislead car drivers (i.e. normally I do it up to the edge of the road, not towards a line when someone might think I'm changing lanes). I see others doing it too. If anything, it just shows a biker that you've seen them, which must be re-assuring to them.

Must be making it up to win a PH argument.

[akirk]

CaptainCosworth said:

akirk said:

no issue with bikes filtering properly - and move to allow it - so in traffic in London it makes sense...
just don't be the biker who still thinks that filtering is legal at 70+ within the outside lane of the motorway sharing it with a 2+ tonne car - that I will block for safety reasons, I am not going to be involved in an accident because of some biker's arrogance...

It's really not a good idea to try and block someone who is trying to filter, especially at motorway speeds. If they misjudge it or don't realise you're closing the gap it is going to get messy.

I wouldn't ever block someone in the process of trying to undertake / overtake me - agreed that would be wrong - but if I see a biker approaching from behind and their behaviour suggests that they are going to be silly when they get to me, then yes I will use road positioning to close a gap as much as when safe I would use road positioning to open a gap for the biker - it is a simple conversational move providing clarity over whether the move is on or off - I appreciate that some bikers see that as being blocked, but that is an arrogant view implying that they have sole right to decide on that move - they don't, on a road at any speed you are part of a context involving all drivers and esp. at speed - that means that I am a part of that move and as the biker is about to force it on me whether I like it or not, my role can only be to indicate like (open up a gap) or dislike (close the gap) - to imply that I don't have a choice or right to decide where I position my car for my safety (as well as the biker's safety) is inaccurate, I have as much right to make that decision in a safe fashion as a biker has a right to make a safe choice to overtake...

[akirk]

ash73 said:

Range Rover... why am I not surprised? Is it the sport model by any chance?

what a stupid comment

never owned a range rover sport - car in question was a classic LSE... mentioned simply to illustrate the stupidity of biker pitching themselves against one of the heavier cars on the road...

[xjay1337]

But do you not think that it's also arrogant of you to decide what is safe and what is not?
I'm not sure if you ride or not, but what can seem dangerous in a car will be safe on a bike, doing block overtakes for example is a lot easier on a bike.

[Daston]

Sadly idiots are everywhere and seem to be more common (maybe its just that there are more of us on this tiny island).

I had one buffoon block me whilst I was cycling along the cycle path thats on the road. They were sat in traffic and just move to the left to cover off the path.

[Lopey]

xjay1337 said:

But do you not think that it's also arrogant of you to decide what is safe and what is not?
I'm not sure if you ride or not, but what can seem dangerous in a car will be safe on a bike, doing block overtakes for example is a lot easier on a bike.

Whenever I try to filter past motorbikes at motorway speeds in my van, for some reason they always block my progress. What right do they have to decide whether my manoeuvre is safe or not?

[xjay1337]

Lopey said:

Whenever I try to filter past motorbikes at motorway speeds in my van, for some reason they always block my progress. What right do they have to decide whether my manoeuvre is safe or not?

(van driver, says it all).

[vonhosen]

xjay1337 said:

But do you not think that it's also arrogant of you to decide what is safe and what is not?
I'm not sure if you ride or not, but what can seem dangerous in a car will be safe on a bike, doing block overtakes for example is a lot easier on a bike.

There's one standard we are all subject to (I'm a biker & a driver).
Whether the actions amounts to dangerous driving/riding is something we could all be asked to objectively consider on a jury where we are called to do so. A jury isn't after all made up of bikers considering a case involving a biker, or drivers considering a case involving a car. Outside of a jury it's Police officers/CPS/ Magistrates who'll be deciding to pass it along the line to the next test (for Sec 3 RTA etc).

It's true that because of dynamics something that may not be appropriate in a car may be acceptable on a bike in certain circumstances.

Filtering though is essentially a low speed manoeuvre. Splitting lanes of traffic moving at speed isn't filtering, it's under/overtaking & is subject to the standards of a competent & careful driver/rider test in under/overtaking. Exactly what speed it ceases to be filtering isn't defined, it will depend on the observer & those listening to the accounts or viewing the video. The more extreme the less likely it is to be considered acceptable.

Edited by vonhosen on Wednesday 18th January 13:11

[rev-erend]

Can't tell you why.

Perhaps they are just selfish idiots.

[Europa1]

I have no scientific evidence, but I've always assumed the answer to the OP's question is "because they're mean-spirited, small-minded pricks".

[DamienB]

CaptainCosworth said:

Really? I don't think I've ever seen a car adjust their lane position to allow a motorcyclist to filter on a motorway. And bearing in mind the number of drivers who don't indicate or use their mirrors properly, why would you put yourself (literally) in a position most drivers would not expect you to be in?

I do that all the time. If all 3 lanes in use, I'm in the outside, no way to move back into lane 2 and a bike comes up behind me I'll always move closer to the central reservation to let them have the option of filtering rather than being stuck behind me. Most of them take up the option.

[Piersman2]

Strange one this. I use the bike sporadically depending on where I'm working. The M4 is one of the haunts that I've used it most on over the last 15 years, most recently this last summer.

I can count on 1 hand the number of times I've had people purposedly pull across to block me when filtering, and conversely have lost count of the number of times people have moved over to let me through when on the bike.

So not sure what the OP is doing to trigger so much ire from those in the cars?

For the record, my bike is yellow, v-twin and has very, very loud cans, so maybe the car drivers are catching sight of me earlier and having the opportunity to move over, especially when they see me bearing down at great knots; I do tend to filter quite briskly.

[akirk]

xjay1337 said:

But do you not think that it's also arrogant of you to decide what is safe and what is not?
I'm not sure if you ride or not, but what can seem dangerous in a car will be safe on a bike, doing block overtakes for example is a lot easier on a bike.

No

that is part of my duty as a driver - I am not an arbiter of all things on that road - that would be arrogant, but I am expected to make decisions about safety all the time as a driver and if I didn't I would be considered negligent - anything involving or potential involving me is valid for me to make that decision.

I fail to see any time when it would be safe for a motorcyclist to undertake me in my lane at c.90mph inches from my car while I have already started to move left into another lane. The only reason the biker didn't die is due to my caution. I am absolutely able to decide that is not safe - it is clear to anyone (clearly other than that biker!)

[anonymous-user]

Just curious. At what speed does it become filtering, and not simply "riding between 2 flowing traffic lanes"? My commute home every day on the A12 sees "filtering" motorcyclists squeezing between L1 and L2, while both lanes are doing 50mph+.

[Lopey]

xjay1337 said:

Lopey said:

Whenever I try to filter past motorbikes at motorway speeds in my van, for some reason they always block my progress. What right do they have to decide whether my manoeuvre is safe or not?

(van driver, says it all).

You might want to replace your helmet. All those bumps to the head are obviously affecting your basic comprehension.

[vonhosen]

OpulentBob said:

Just curious. At what speed does it become filtering, and not simply "riding between 2 flowing traffic lanes"? My commute home every day on the A12 sees "filtering" motorcyclists squeezing between L1 and L2, while both lanes are doing 50mph+.

It isn't defined in terms of a set speed, but filtering by definition (Highway code, dictionary, Police training, how speed is considered in outcomes of civil cases involving filtering etc) applies to low speeds.

[supercommuter]

Piersman2 said:

Strange one this. I use the bike sporadically depending on where I'm working. The M4 is one of the haunts that I've used it most on over the last 15 years, most recently this last summer.

I can count on 1 hand the number of times I've had people purposedly pull across to block me when filtering, and conversely have lost count of the number of times people have moved over to let me through when on the bike.

So not sure what the OP is doing to trigger so much ire from those in the cars?

For the record, my bike is yellow, v-twin and has very, very loud cans, so maybe the car drivers are catching sight of me earlier and having the opportunity to move over, especially when they see me bearing down at great knots; I do tend to filter quite briskly.

I think your sporadic use may not expose you to the amount of motorists I do in my 240 mile round daily trip

I also ride a quiet CB500x commuter bike.

[RizzoTheRat]

OverSteery said:

As a passionate biker with 10s of years and 100sk miles, I see people on bikes riding like complete ar~eholes all the time and hear them complain it's other people fault when they fall off.

Completely agree, but it's scary how easy it is to find yourself doing it. I spent a few months commuting M3-M25-A30 to Heathrow, and usually don't filter above about 30mph. After a few months of doing it every day I'd suddenly realise that as the traffic speed picked up I'd continued filtering and was now zipping through 60mph traffic at 70+, without even realising I was going that quick. Having realised this I'd slow down, and often catch myself doing it again a few days later.

Power corrupts.

[Richard-390a0]

I suspect the arrogant fks who stop bikers filtering are the same fktards you see tailgating ambulances when they are filtering through traffic!.