Why block filtering motorcycles...?

[Davel]

Filtering is mostly down to commonsense on both parts, the biker looking for a safe overtake / filter.

And the motorist just being considerate enough to let something moving faster than you to get past.

The biker is not going to hold you up or inconvenience you if done safely.

There are of course some knobheads on bikes or in cars.

[Dr Murdoch]

julian64 said:

My post count is through the roof and I never see people apologise on here. I wish PH would do a search and anyone who's ever typed the word 'apologise' on this site should get a special avatar to let people know they are talking to an adult.

Group hug

[supercommuter]

akirk said:

supercommuter said:

shielsy said:

akirk said:

just don't be the biker who still thinks that filtering is legal at 70+ within the outside lane of the motorway sharing it with a 2+ tonne car - that I will block for safety reasons, I am not going to be involved in an accident because of some biker's arrogance...

Great logic there. On grounds of safety its OK to block said motorcyclist, potentially causing a collision.

Or alternatively you could just carry on driving as you were and the bike would be passed you in 2 seconds.

Quite.

akirk - whats to say you misjudge the speed and decide to take it upon yourself to block the biker and kill him there and then? Nice judgement of a safe maneuver that would be.

To all the others who move out the way or just continue as they are, thanks! It makes life so much easier, especially in the cold weather at the moment!

I think there is a misunderstanding here
- unfortunately the word 'block' used by the OP is not ideal - it implies that the biker has a right of way which is being prevented by a car driver, that is very inaccurate.
- equally the word filtering is often used incorrectly - it is meant to imply making use of space between traffic which is generally going slowly and where there is an option for a biker to go between carefully - the discussion above has morphed - a biker doing what I am refering to is not filtering - they are undertaking within the same lane... that is very different...

there are no circumstances ever when undertaking at c.90mph within the same lane, to the left of a car in lane 3 which is in the process of moving to lane 2 makes any sense - it is suicidal.

So, if I see a biker doing that up a stream of traffic from behind then yes I will position my car to ensure that there is safety and the biker doesn't believe that a gap exists when in fact no gap is present. That is not blocking as that implies that a safe gap existed - in the scenario I am discussing there is no safe gap - however that doesn't stop some bikers - road positioning is a core part of driving well - making sure there is absolute clarity for other road users so that they know what you are doing and your intentions - that could mean closing down a perceived gap, it could mean slowing down to provide a gap, it could mean moving to another lane earlier than otherwise - in all cases it has nothing to do with trying to frustrate a biker, but ensure safety for myself and those around me...

if a biker sees that as being blocked then that is a perception issue for the biker - being blocked is a car preventing what would otherwise be a safe overtake / filter - I am referring to instances which are clearly not safe - and dealing with them predictively ahead of the biker arriving where I am... And lets not pretend that all bikers are good riders - I see some fantastic bikers out there and it is a delight to help give them space to progress, but there are sadly far too many bad riders (as there are car drivers, but bikers are more vulnerable), I live in the Cotswolds and see some horrendous misuse of the roads around here, and having arrived on the scene at a biker fatality, I would prefer to do what I can to prevent it - if a few biker warriors on a forum get uppity about it and claim that is being blocked - so be it

Nope, I am not misunderstanding you. I think you behave immaturely on the road and I do hope it does not result in death or serious injury to the biker you cut up or you after they get up. Have a lovely day.

[BOR]

I LOVE being blocked when I'm filtering.

I keep moving further and further across, until the guy blocking me has moved across so much, that I can nip round the other side !

This does not normally go down well, which makes it even more satisfying.

[RobM77]

[supercommuter]

Piersman2 said:

supercommuter said:

I think your sporadic use may not expose you to the amount of motorists I do in my 240 mile round daily trip

I also ride a quiet CB500x commuter bike.

I've spent plenty of time commuting up and down the M4, probably 10K miles in total over the years, still can only recall about 4 or 5 knobbers moving over on purpose.

I assume it's more to do with the bike, or maybe I'm gone before they realise I'm there; but not sure what you're doing 'wrong' to trigger one every 50 miles or so.

It will remain a mystery I am afraid. But I am not the only one, all the bikers in my office have this a couple of times a day at least. A mixture of coming past Reading in queued traffic on the motorway and Central London. After about 80,000 miles in the last couple of years on this commute, I am no slouch at filtering and finding spaces, so i doubt its the latter.

Ride safe

[akirk]

RobM77 said:

_Neal_ said:

In my view, making a judgment about what risks other road users are prepared to take, and potentially winding them up in the process, is only going to end badly.

Not to mention that it's the highpoint of arrogance and a self centred attitude. The law is designed to make judgements on what is acceptable and the police are paid by us to uphold it.

not so - you are expected by the law to drive within the context of what is going on - and that means that you need to be evaluating and allowing for / compensating for other drivers - it is an expectation of the law and you could be prosecuted for failing to do it...

in the scenario above where the motorcyclist was undertaking within the same lane at c.90mph - moving right to give space could be seen as having encouraged the motorcyclist and therefore being a part of what caused an accident were one to happen...

as I said above (for those who have actually bothered to read it ) defensive driving could mean a number of things, including moving over earlier / slowing down / making it clear that what was perceived as a gap isn't a gap - all of that is defensive driving / good communication - at no time is that about blocking a safe move on behalf of the biker...

perhaps some of those who think that defensive driving is idiotic could step forward and explain / justify how a biker undertaking in the outside lane at c.90mph (while a car is already moving left) makes sense?

to say that the law makes judgements and the police are paid to uphold it is to divorce the road user from any responsibility - and that is not the basis for UK law - as a road user you have full responsibility for a) what you do and b) how you affect / influence others - so yes, you are in law expected to make continual judgements about the risks other road users are taking - and yes that judgement should influence how you drive and what moves you take...

and none of that is arrogant on my behalf - it is simply good driving - being aware of others and driving according to the conditions - it would be remiss to suggest that a space existed where one didn't, better to be clear that there is no space than to imply to a biker that there is a space and then see them crash - that is not blocking them, that is driving sensibly...

it is sad to see so much arrogance on behalf of bikers, believing that they alone have the right to drive as they wish and no-one else has any right to a view on it - not so, other than the distress in viewing a biker fatality there is also a high risk of being involved in their accident. As such, every driver has a right and responsibility to be involved in those decisions where they could be affected...

the vast majority of bikers are fantastic and ride safely even when making progress, but there are also a number who are extremely bad - I have no intention of being involved in their accident and I will continue to drive defensively when they are around - they are easy to spot. For all the good ones I will continue to give space on the road and accommodate them as far as possible...

[akirk]

supercommuter said:

Nope, I am not misunderstanding you. I think you behave immaturely on the road and I do hope it does not result in death or serious injury to the biker you cut up or you after they get up. Have a lovely day.

I have never in my life cut anyone up try reading the posts more carefully... I am also a very experienced driver - if you think that your desires are being thwarted, then make sure that they are legal and safe first - or perhaps you would prefer me to not adjust according to the idiot approaching on a bike - I can think of at least half a dozen concrete examples where if I hadn't compensated I suspect the biker would be dead... but fine call me immature, at least you will be alive to call me names!

[RobM77]

akirk said:

RobM77 said:

_Neal_ said:

In my view, making a judgment about what risks other road users are prepared to take, and potentially winding them up in the process, is only going to end badly.

Not to mention that it's the highpoint of arrogance and a self centred attitude. The law is designed to make judgements on what is acceptable and the police are paid by us to uphold it.

not so - you are expected by the law to drive within the context of what is going on - and that means that you need to be evaluating and allowing for / compensating for other drivers - it is an expectation of the law and you could be prosecuted for failing to do it...

in the scenario above where the motorcyclist was undertaking within the same lane at c.90mph - moving right to give space could be seen as having encouraged the motorcyclist and therefore being a part of what caused an accident were one to happen...

as I said above (for those who have actually bothered to read it ) defensive driving could mean a number of things, including moving over earlier / slowing down / making it clear that what was perceived as a gap isn't a gap - all of that is defensive driving / good communication - at no time is that about blocking a safe move on behalf of the biker...

perhaps some of those who think that defensive driving is idiotic could step forward and explain / justify how a biker undertaking in the outside lane at c.90mph (while a car is already moving left) makes sense?

to say that the law makes judgements and the police are paid to uphold it is to divorce the road user from any responsibility - and that is not the basis for UK law - as a road user you have full responsibility for a) what you do and b) how you affect / influence others - so yes, you are in law expected to make continual judgements about the risks other road users are taking - and yes that judgement should influence how you drive and what moves you take...

and none of that is arrogant on my behalf - it is simply good driving - being aware of others and driving according to the conditions - it would be remiss to suggest that a space existed where one didn't, better to be clear that there is no space than to imply to a biker that there is a space and then see them crash - that is not blocking them, that is driving sensibly...

it is sad to see so much arrogance on behalf of bikers, believing that they alone have the right to drive as they wish and no-one else has any right to a view on it - not so, other than the distress in viewing a biker fatality there is also a high risk of being involved in their accident. As such, every driver has a right and responsibility to be involved in those decisions where they could be affected...

the vast majority of bikers are fantastic and ride safely even when making progress, but there are also a number who are extremely bad - I have no intention of being involved in their accident and I will continue to drive defensively when they are around - they are easy to spot. For all the good ones I will continue to give space on the road and accommodate them as far as possible...

I was commenting on drivers deliberately blocking filtering bikers because they feel that the bikers' actions are unsafe.

[caelite]

wormus said:

Kick their door mirrors off and ride on the pavement to get around them.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OjgB3FvnR2A

Why else do my bike gloves have faux carbon fibre knuckle dusters on them?

[djt100]

This morning on the way to work a White Transit with Martini stripe stickers all over it and a Huge picture of a Motorcycle racing helmet on the back doors actively pulled right to the while line in the middle of the road to block me passing. So in my view the biggest C*** of them all.

[problemchild1976]

if pulling to the front of the queue and a car decides to start to position itself to block, i found that if its now too tight to balance with my foot on the ground, resting my my motorcycle boot on his bonnet gets a swift movement away from me!

i pulled to the front of a queue once on a filter lane to turn right. the guy in the car was proper shouting at me. he tried to go round the outside of me and then squeeze me into the central reservation of the road we were joining! all that ended up happening was he got by foot peg and brake lever down the side of his car. he then took a sharp keft and escaped from his "attempted murder" quite rapidly!

TBH its the same in a car when pulling out from a side turning! no fker wants to allow you out even though there is either space or the traffic is doing 5mph. sometimes they even accelerate to aggressively stop you! for why?? i may be taking the next turning and i'm out of your way! i very much doubt i'm going to EXACTLY the same location and will beat you to the last available parking slot!

Grow up people!!

JJ

[RizzoTheRat]

akirk said:

in the scenario above where the motorcyclist was undertaking within the same lane at c.90mph - moving right to give space could be seen as having encouraged the motorcyclist and therefore being a part of what caused an accident were one to happen...

And presumably moving left to narrow that gap could be seen as encouraging him to duck across lane 2 and up between lanes 1 and 2, or try to pass you on your right. A biker blatting through traffic at 90 has already identified himself as potentially being an idiot so you could be the instigation for him doing something more idiotic.

[_Neal_]

akirk said:

as I said above (for those who have actually bothered to read it ) defensive driving could mean a number of things, including moving over earlier / slowing down / making it clear that what was perceived as a gap isn't a gap - all of that is defensive driving / good communication - at no time is that about blocking a safe move on behalf of the biker...

perhaps some of those who think that defensive driving is idiotic could step forward and explain / justify how a biker undertaking in the outside lane at c.90mph (while a car is already moving left) makes sense?
....

The problem is that you're judging what is a "safe move" on behalf of the biker. I don't think doing what you do is defensive driving, as it potentially puts you and a speeding motorcyclist in conflict, for example when he decides the gap you've "made clear" isn't a gap actually is wide enough for him to get through. Making room and letting him get on with it is much more sensible, and and smacks less of trying to police how other people drive or ride. If, for example, you moved right in your lane, using a right indicator, that may illustrate to the car in front that something is coming through that they may not have seen, so safety goes up.

And no, I don't think defensive driving is idiotic, and I don't think the biker should be doing what he's doing, but what you do risks making the problem worse, not better.

[Rawwr]

akirk said:

and that means that you need to be evaluating and allowing for / compensating for other drivers

And when are you going to start doing that?

[iphonedyou]

Akirk - could you please, please stop confusing hyphens with full stops?

Your content is bad enough. That it's punctuated so bizarrely is the hellish cherry on a particularly god forsaken cake.

[VeeFource]

I'd love to see how car drivers with the 'blocking' mentality would cope driving somewhere like say Hanoi in Vietnam. They'd suddenly find their car is seen as a great annoyance what with selfishly taking up virtually an entire lane and delaying the swarms of scooters trying to make progress. I wonder if it would ever occur to them how it would all be at a standstill if those so called 'motorcyclists' were all in cars.

I'd also love to see the reaction of a scooter riding Vietnamese fellow as he sees the minority 'motorcyclist' penalised for not conforming to the queuing regimes of the car driving masses here in the UK. Sure, they're surrounded by 4 empty seats, Radio 4 and air conditioning but what does that matter when these motorcycling savages think they can push in with no regard for British queuing etiquette. Not even the fact the 'motorcyclist' will be long gone from the lights before they even hit second gear matters when they're free demonstrate their point and police them with 1.5 tons of instant roadblock.

Mind numbingly ignorant!

[V8RX7]

brrapp said:

Renn Sport said:

To balance this out I have motorcyclists who stop me filtering past on my pushbike too.

I filter if on a motorbike and try to help motorbikes to filter if I'm in a car or van, but I have to confess, I'll try to block cyclists from filtering in some circumstances. If I've been in a queue of vehicles stuck behind a bunch of cyclists for a while, I've just got past, then come to a set of lights and the cyclists start filtering past the waiting traffic and I know I'll be stuck behind them for another mile or so then yes, I'll try to block them.

As above.

I aid bikers as they don't affect me but bloody cyclists can hold you up time and time again in certain circumstances (eg heavy traffic with lots of traffic lights)

[problemchild1976]

how long do they feasibly hold you up?

30mins?

or

2mins?

2mins at 15mph is a 1/2 mile! thats quite a distance/time to be unable to overtake

for some reason when we get in a car, seconds become sooooo important

maybe leave the house 5mins early and don't worry about cyclists then you wont have to waste your time and money in court defending yourself when you knock one down

i don't cycle

JJ

[Dog Star]

I've been riding since 1984 and I've probably come across this less than once a year on average. Whatever it is - it's a very rare thing to happen.