Cold Start Daftness
Discussion
That's a good point. I actually spoke to my neighbour today - started a 'nice car' conversation with him (it is a nice car - for me, one of the few cars that actually suit recession white) and he confessed he hates the cold start theatrics and just hadn't thought of it when he took the car on. It would stop me considering an M4. But I think all that car's competitors would be just as bad.
That's what I like about Pistonheads - it's a broad church. Some love loud cars in the morning - others less so. Each, totally, to their own. I've had a bit of a strange change in my views about cars since I started delivering them. Because I might drive a Seat Mii in the morning and an RS6 in the afternoon, via a Jag and a Volvo, I've started to really enjoy cheaper, simpler cars. I have to be honest, I really think the current range of M's, RS's, AMG's Various R's are just not that much fun to drive. I recently drove up the A7 into Edinburgh in a Poverty spec Seat Toledo diesel and realised that I was getting a massive kick from driving it about as fast as it would go. The same journey back in an RS7 was just boring. And scary.
That's what I like about Pistonheads - it's a broad church. Some love loud cars in the morning - others less so. Each, totally, to their own. I've had a bit of a strange change in my views about cars since I started delivering them. Because I might drive a Seat Mii in the morning and an RS6 in the afternoon, via a Jag and a Volvo, I've started to really enjoy cheaper, simpler cars. I have to be honest, I really think the current range of M's, RS's, AMG's Various R's are just not that much fun to drive. I recently drove up the A7 into Edinburgh in a Poverty spec Seat Toledo diesel and realised that I was getting a massive kick from driving it about as fast as it would go. The same journey back in an RS7 was just boring. And scary.
W124 said:
That's a good point. I actually spoke to my neighbour today - started a 'nice car' conversation with him (it is a nice car - for me, one of the few cars that actually suit recession white) and he confessed he hates the cold start theatrics and just hadn't thought of it when he took the car on. It would stop me considering an M4. But I think all that car's competitors would be just as bad.
That's what I like about Pistonheads - it's a broad church. Some love loud cars in the morning - others less so. Each, totally, to their own. I've had a bit of a strange change in my views about cars since I started delivering them. Because I might drive a Seat Mii in the morning and an RS6 in the afternoon, via a Jag and a Volvo, I've started to really enjoy cheaper, simpler cars. I have to be honest, I really think the current range of M's, RS's, AMG's Various R's are just not that much fun to drive. I recently drove up the A7 into Edinburgh in a Poverty spec Seat Toledo diesel and realised that I was getting a massive kick from driving it about as fast as it would go. The same journey back in an RS7 was just boring. And scary.
Nope, I'm firmly in the no fake noises camp myself as I can't decide what's worse actually. Either the cars that make fake pops and bangs to attract attention and imply some higher level of performance than they are actually capable of or the shallow mindset of those who are attracted to such things and feel compelled to make such an exhibition of themselves every time they start up or change gear.That's what I like about Pistonheads - it's a broad church. Some love loud cars in the morning - others less so. Each, totally, to their own. I've had a bit of a strange change in my views about cars since I started delivering them. Because I might drive a Seat Mii in the morning and an RS6 in the afternoon, via a Jag and a Volvo, I've started to really enjoy cheaper, simpler cars. I have to be honest, I really think the current range of M's, RS's, AMG's Various R's are just not that much fun to drive. I recently drove up the A7 into Edinburgh in a Poverty spec Seat Toledo diesel and realised that I was getting a massive kick from driving it about as fast as it would go. The same journey back in an RS7 was just boring. And scary.
Both have a distinct whiff of Council about them to me.
W124 said:
That's what I like about Pistonheads - it's a broad church. Some love loud cars in the morning - others less so.
I don't think it wouldn't bother me so much if I lived in the middle of nowhere and it was at least a nice sound, but with neighbors all around I would be cringing every time I started it.It's too much for me. I had, not long ago, to drive a F-Type R from my old house in the middle of nowhere near Great Missensden, to Coventry. I knew that upon starting it (at 5.00am), it would wake up everybody within about a 300 yard radius. It did as well. And then the same for every small Hamlet on the Wendover road. Each to their own, but for me that's just too t
ttish.
ttish. HJMS123 said:
I think the cars which blip the throttle on start up (F Types) etc are obviously theatrical but I think most performance cars with reasonably loud exhausts will sound loud at start up, I believe they have to gets the cats up to temp asap as the emmission tests are based on cats at full operating temps. I may be wrong but I imagine if they didn't have this feature they'd be in a tax band or two above.
To the poster who compared a 740i to an M135i start up ... I imagine the 740i exhaust to be much more toned down than 1 series. I think it all depends on how loud the stock exhaust is to how noticeable the cold start feature becomes.
agree this comes into play, but I believe the M135i (much like most BMWs including mine) have a valve that can stem the flow through the near unsilenced part of the backbox, on mine this is open on startup - it could be closed and the exhaust would flow just as effectively, yet be much quieterTo the poster who compared a 740i to an M135i start up ... I imagine the 740i exhaust to be much more toned down than 1 series. I think it all depends on how loud the stock exhaust is to how noticeable the cold start feature becomes.
underphil said:
HJMS123 said:
I think the cars which blip the throttle on start up (F Types) etc are obviously theatrical but I think most performance cars with reasonably loud exhausts will sound loud at start up, I believe they have to gets the cats up to temp asap as the emmission tests are based on cats at full operating temps. I may be wrong but I imagine if they didn't have this feature they'd be in a tax band or two above.
To the poster who compared a 740i to an M135i start up ... I imagine the 740i exhaust to be much more toned down than 1 series. I think it all depends on how loud the stock exhaust is to how noticeable the cold start feature becomes.
agree this comes into play, but I believe the M135i (much like most BMWs including mine) have a valve that can stem the flow through the near unsilenced part of the backbox, on mine this is open on startup - it could be closed and the exhaust would flow just as effectively, yet be much quieterTo the poster who compared a 740i to an M135i start up ... I imagine the 740i exhaust to be much more toned down than 1 series. I think it all depends on how loud the stock exhaust is to how noticeable the cold start feature becomes.
Warby80 said:
underphil said:
HJMS123 said:
I think the cars which blip the throttle on start up (F Types) etc are obviously theatrical but I think most performance cars with reasonably loud exhausts will sound loud at start up, I believe they have to gets the cats up to temp asap as the emmission tests are based on cats at full operating temps. I may be wrong but I imagine if they didn't have this feature they'd be in a tax band or two above.
To the poster who compared a 740i to an M135i start up ... I imagine the 740i exhaust to be much more toned down than 1 series. I think it all depends on how loud the stock exhaust is to how noticeable the cold start feature becomes.
agree this comes into play, but I believe the M135i (much like most BMWs including mine) have a valve that can stem the flow through the near unsilenced part of the backbox, on mine this is open on startup - it could be closed and the exhaust would flow just as effectively, yet be much quieterTo the poster who compared a 740i to an M135i start up ... I imagine the 740i exhaust to be much more toned down than 1 series. I think it all depends on how loud the stock exhaust is to how noticeable the cold start feature becomes.
Mr2Mike said:
Why would a turbocharger wastegate need to be wide open at idle? All the turbocharged cars I've owned used boost pressure to open the wastegate, so the default position with no boost is fully closed.
No idea but they are wide open on my 335i at cold start (not normal idle), you can hear them close after the initial cold start and raised revs bit.The BMWs use vac pressure to run the wastegates.
Dannbodge said:
Mr2Mike said:
Why would a turbocharger wastegate need to be wide open at idle? All the turbocharged cars I've owned used boost pressure to open the wastegate, so the default position with no boost is fully closed.
No idea but they are wide open on my 335i at cold start (not normal idle), you can hear them close after the initial cold start and raised revs bit.The BMWs use vac pressure to run the wastegates.
Warby80 said:
That is just valves in the exhaust for quiet/noisy modes, the wastegate is mounted on the manifold/turbo to control boost pressure.
It's not, well certainly not on my N54.The exhaust flap on mine is disconnected (open all the time).
The wastegates are open at cold start to help with the CAT warming along with the higher RPM which is why it is much louder.
Dannbodge said:
Warby80 said:
That is just valves in the exhaust for quiet/noisy modes, the wastegate is mounted on the manifold/turbo to control boost pressure.
It's not, well certainly not on my N54.The exhaust flap on mine is disconnected (open all the time).
The wastegates are open at cold start to help with the CAT warming along with the higher RPM which is why it is much louder.
HappyMidget said:
Warby80 said:
Why? The wastegate is used to control the boost all the time to limit boost pressures, not just when the throttle is closed.
It sure as hell aint gonna be open at full boost as you wouldn't get any boost pressure...The wastegate opens to control the amount of boost once a preset level has been reached.
Warby80 said:
Please, read this: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wastegate
The wastegate opens to control the amount of boost once a preset level has been reached.
I know how they work but you said fully open, which would mean no boost or an incorrectly sized wg that then cannot open more to dump pressure on the off throttle event to stop the turbine stalling.The wastegate opens to control the amount of boost once a preset level has been reached.
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