Michelin Pilot Sport 4

[d_a_n1979]

bolidemichael said:

I have a full set of PS4 17" 245/45/17 on my E500 estate. They are very good and comfortable.

Then again, the Falken FK510s that I replaced were excellent, too.

The Continental ContiSport 5(?) that I had proper to them were also really good.

I enjoy driving quickly and have run all of the tyres to the top speed of the vehicle and in different conditions all over Europe, with different payloads too.

Does the price difference for the Michelin over the Falken reflect a quality difference? I haven't run the Michelin long enough to ascertain consistency over the life of the tyres (13,000 vs 4,000 miles), but whilst it feels good to have the premium tyres and they have the premium sidewalls too, the answer is no. They are marginally better and since I can afford them then why not. But the Falken are really well made and perfectly adequate for the road.

Edited by bolidemichael on Friday 8th January 00:14

That's interesting to read re the Falkens as they're a tyre I'm considering for my next summer tyres, in 245/45/17 sizes too for the Style 66s on my E39 touring

I've thought long & hard about going back to 18s; but overall I much prefer the drive and handling on the 17s and will go one size wider (245 instead of 235) to get a straighter sidewall and better rim protection

I'm considering the Conti Contact6s too

[kalniel]

Heaveho said:

Do these really wear that slowly? I went through 3 sets of Goodyears in 14k miles on my Evo when I first got it. I can't get 12k from the fronts ( Michelins ) on my work Ford Connect! I drive as quickly as is reasonable, and try to avoid wheelspin etc, but people saying 24k from a set of fronts an a FWD car with reasonable performance on offer seems impossible to me. Surely if you exploit the performance of the car and the benefits of having the best tyre available it can't happen. Or can it?

It also begs the question, if they're driving gently enough to manage that, what difference would they really notice on supposedly inferior tyres? I can see that reads as argumentative, it's not meant to be, it's a genuine question. What I mean is, in order to get that sort of mileage out of tyres, are you asking much of them in the first place?

If that's a comment to me, then I'd hardly call my 150ps A3 a performance hatch - it's nippy enough and I do enjoy the corners, but it's only 250NM torque, plus it's relatively light for a modern hatch which helps look after the tyres. I don't drive gently.

As for noticing difference between tyres - I definitely do. I've had Michelin PS3, PS4, Primacy 4, Conti SportContact 5, and Goodyear efficient grip performance on my A3s and they are all noticeably different, with PS4 my favourite. PS3s were heavy feeling by comparison and gave less driving feel again. Primacy 4 feel like the contis and perform almost exactly halfway between the PS4s and the Contis. The goodyear were noticeably lighter - almost as good dry grip in corners as the pilot sports, just about equal on straight accel/deccel. Not quite as good in the wet, better fuel economy but also lasted half as long.

Heaveho said:

Is anyone driving consistently hard on different brands of tyres and able to say that the Michelins are worth the extra?

Look at the tyres for your size and compare what's available. I don't go to Michelins by default, but for me wet performance is king, followed by dry performance and comfort. If I lived near smoother, drier roads and had a sports car I'd probably go for something with more feel - whether that's latest conti/goodyear UHP or PS4S instead of the PS4 non-S.

[BUG4LIFE]

d_a_n1979 said:

bolidemichael said:

I have a full set of PS4 17" 245/45/17 on my E500 estate. They are very good and comfortable.

Then again, the Falken FK510s that I replaced were excellent, too.

The Continental ContiSport 5(?) that I had proper to them were also really good.

I enjoy driving quickly and have run all of the tyres to the top speed of the vehicle and in different conditions all over Europe, with different payloads too.

Does the price difference for the Michelin over the Falken reflect a quality difference? I haven't run the Michelin long enough to ascertain consistency over the life of the tyres (13,000 vs 4,000 miles), but whilst it feels good to have the premium tyres and they have the premium sidewalls too, the answer is no. They are marginally better and since I can afford them then why not. But the Falken are really well made and perfectly adequate for the road.

Edited by bolidemichael on Friday 8th January 00:14

That's interesting to read re the Falkens as they're a tyre I'm considering for my next summer tyres, in 245/45/17 sizes too for the Style 66s on my E39 touring

I've thought long & hard about going back to 18s; but overall I much prefer the drive and handling on the 17s and will go one size wider (245 instead of 235) to get a straighter sidewall and better rim protection

I'm considering the Conti Contact6s too

I've been trying to decide between the PS4's and Falken 510s too, for my Jag STR. My biggest question being is the Michelin's worth the extra cost [I'd need to replace all 4 tyres] - at the moment I'm thinking no, due to the type of driving I do day to day.

Since trying to decide though, Camskill/Blackcircle don't have the Falken's in the staggered set-up I need

[cerb4.5lee]

I've mentioned this a few times but I can't believe how much better the PS4 are over the primacy 3's I had on my Cooper S. I went out shopping earlier and it was 1 degree...and I could accelerate full throttle with barely a flicker from the T/C. If I did the same with the primacy it would torque steer massively left and right and the T/C would be working overtime for sure. It is a night and day difference for me.

[bolidemichael]

BUG4LIFE said:

d_a_n1979 said:

bolidemichael said:

I have a full set of PS4 17" 245/45/17 on my E500 estate. They are very good and comfortable.

Then again, the Falken FK510s that I replaced were excellent, too.

The Continental ContiSport 5(?) that I had proper to them were also really good.

I enjoy driving quickly and have run all of the tyres to the top speed of the vehicle and in different conditions all over Europe, with different payloads too.

Does the price difference for the Michelin over the Falken reflect a quality difference? I haven't run the Michelin long enough to ascertain consistency over the life of the tyres (13,000 vs 4,000 miles), but whilst it feels good to have the premium tyres and they have the premium sidewalls too, the answer is no. They are marginally better and since I can afford them then why not. But the Falken are really well made and perfectly adequate for the road.

Edited by bolidemichael on Friday 8th January 00:14

That's interesting to read re the Falkens as they're a tyre I'm considering for my next summer tyres, in 245/45/17 sizes too for the Style 66s on my E39 touring

I've thought long & hard about going back to 18s; but overall I much prefer the drive and handling on the 17s and will go one size wider (245 instead of 235) to get a straighter sidewall and better rim protection

I'm considering the Conti Contact6s too

I've been trying to decide between the PS4's and Falken 510s too, for my Jag STR. My biggest question being is the Michelin's worth the extra cost [I'd need to replace all 4 tyres] - at the moment I'm thinking no, due to the type of driving I do day to day.

Since trying to decide though, Camskill/Blackcircle don't have the Falken's in the staggered set-up I need

I faced the Falken v Michelin question and opted for the Falken. Once the Falken wore out (prematurely, as the alignment was out and badly wore the inner edges), I wanted to scratch the itch of the PS4. As lockdown as cocked things up, I haven't managed to drive with them in all conditions all over Europe etc, but my verdict is that I love the kudos of having the Michelins, but the FK510s are really excellent tyres and excellent vfm. Also, Dan, I wouldn't sacrifice the comfort (and integrity) of the 17" for 18".

[d_a_n1979]

bolidemichael said:

BUG4LIFE said:

d_a_n1979 said:

bolidemichael said:

I have a full set of PS4 17" 245/45/17 on my E500 estate. They are very good and comfortable.

Then again, the Falken FK510s that I replaced were excellent, too.

The Continental ContiSport 5(?) that I had proper to them were also really good.

I enjoy driving quickly and have run all of the tyres to the top speed of the vehicle and in different conditions all over Europe, with different payloads too.

Does the price difference for the Michelin over the Falken reflect a quality difference? I haven't run the Michelin long enough to ascertain consistency over the life of the tyres (13,000 vs 4,000 miles), but whilst it feels good to have the premium tyres and they have the premium sidewalls too, the answer is no. They are marginally better and since I can afford them then why not. But the Falken are really well made and perfectly adequate for the road.

Edited by bolidemichael on Friday 8th January 00:14

That's interesting to read re the Falkens as they're a tyre I'm considering for my next summer tyres, in 245/45/17 sizes too for the Style 66s on my E39 touring

I've thought long & hard about going back to 18s; but overall I much prefer the drive and handling on the 17s and will go one size wider (245 instead of 235) to get a straighter sidewall and better rim protection

I'm considering the Conti Contact6s too

I've been trying to decide between the PS4's and Falken 510s too, for my Jag STR. My biggest question being is the Michelin's worth the extra cost [I'd need to replace all 4 tyres] - at the moment I'm thinking no, due to the type of driving I do day to day.

Since trying to decide though, Camskill/Blackcircle don't have the Falken's in the staggered set-up I need

I faced the Falken v Michelin question and opted for the Falken. Once the Falken wore out (prematurely, as the alignment was out and badly wore the inner edges), I wanted to scratch the itch of the PS4. As lockdown as cocked things up, I haven't managed to drive with them in all conditions all over Europe etc, but my verdict is that I love the kudos of having the Michelins, but the FK510s are really excellent tyres and excellent vfm. Also, Dan, I wouldn't sacrifice the comfort (and integrity) of the 17" for 18".

Well I've had PS4s a few times before and found the same issues with them every time; once that sticky outer layer of rubber wears off they seem to get hard, uncomfortable and they drone, a lot!

Had them on the E38 Style 37s that I ran on my touring and they were loud an was very happy to see the back of them (alloys too) Fitted and ran the Avon WV7 17" winters that I've got on currently and then bought the 18" LMs with Vredestein tyres; which looked superb, but still made the car very stiff/harsh on rough roads (which we're surrounded by where we live)!

Back on the 17" winters now and the car handles so much better and rides so much better; so that's swung it for me to stick with another set of 17" Style 66s...

Now to choose tyres (well, no rush as I'll only look to fit them around March)!

[bolidemichael]

I noted that they were slightly louder than the Falkens, too.

[jon-]

There's a load of test data for the PS4 on the site (linked below.)

They're still one of the best all round 18" tyres for the general public, but I still feel they're a little bit soft for performance drivers, which is why I prefer the Asym 5 or the PC6.

They also seem to have lost the huge advantage they had with wear, with Goodyear and even Conti caught up.

Undeniable a great tyre, but just a little dull if you love driving.

https://www.tyrereviews.com/Tyre/Michelin/Pilot-Sp...

[indigostr]

BUG4LIFE said:

I've been trying to decide between the PS4's and Falken 510s too, for my Jag STR. My biggest question being is the Michelin's worth the extra cost [I'd need to replace all 4 tyres] - at the moment I'm thinking no, due to the type of driving I do day to day.

Since trying to decide though, Camskill/Blackcircle don't have the Falken's in the staggered set-up I need

I recently had PS4’s fitted to my STR. Initial impression over the first 500 miles is excellent. Even this morning driving in -1 they were still pliable and I’m running 19” staggered. Managed to get a cashback deal for Protyre and £100 from Michelin through their own cashback deal. Totalled approx £600 for all 4 after c/b. My previous vred vortis went off after 2 years so fingers crossed these will last longer, although lack of mileage may have been a contributor.

[SWoll]

Running PS4S on our Tesla. Seem to be able to work magic when putting 500bhp/500lb/ft to the road even in poor conditions and wear rate is also impressive for such a heavy car.

[ro250]

jon- said:

There's a load of test data for the PS4 on the site (linked below.)

They're still one of the best all round 18" tyres for the general public, but I still feel they're a little bit soft for performance drivers, which is why I prefer the Asym 5 or the PC6.

They also seem to have lost the huge advantage they had with wear, with Goodyear and even Conti caught up.

Undeniable a great tyre, but just a little dull if you love driving.

https://www.tyrereviews.com/Tyre/Michelin/Pilot-Sp...

I watched loads of your videos when researching tyres. Even about tyres I had no intention of buying or needing. Good quality work to say the least!

[plenty]

jon- said:

They also seem to have lost the huge advantage they had with wear, with Goodyear and even Conti caught up.

Interesting...is there other evidence of this as Continental in particular have a poor record for wear?

I always take Tyrereviews with a pinch of salt as it’s purely based on user perception not empirical data.

[bolidemichael]

plenty said:

jon- said:

They also seem to have lost the huge advantage they had with wear, with Goodyear and even Conti caught up.

Interesting...is there other evidence of this as Continental in particular have a poor record for wear?

I always take Tyrereviews with a pinch of salt as it’s purely based on user perception not empirical data.

It isn't a singular metric that is offered on Jon's site. It is also a compilation of tyre test from respected magazines such as Auto Bild, Autocar etc; additionally, there are the embedded youtube videos containing proprietary content from the tyre review youtube channel.

[plenty]

Ah got it. My bad - didn’t realise Tyre Reviews was actually Jon’s site and as such his assessments should carry significant weight! And lest my comment above come across as disparaging - I find it to be a very useful resource indeed.

[bolidemichael]

plenty said:

Ah got it. My bad - didn’t realise Tyre Reviews was actually Jon’s site and as such his assessments should carry significant weight! And lest my comment above come across as disparaging - I find it to be a very useful resource indeed.

Excellent backtracking, like an Italian tank

[plenty]

Mmm...should really let that one go but it’s Friday night in a lockdown and I’ve got time on my hands

Is Tyrereviews the most useful resource out there for tyre buyers? Absolutely. And hats off to Jon for his efforts and hard work.

But best not to treat user-generated review scores as if they are gospel - being highly subjective in nature a dab of salt when interpreting is advisable.

[df76]

jon- said:

There's a load of test data for the PS4 on the site (linked below.)

They're still one of the best all round 18" tyres for the general public, but I still feel they're a little bit soft for performance drivers, which is why I prefer the Asym 5 or the PC6.

They also seem to have lost the huge advantage they had with wear, with Goodyear and even Conti caught up.

Undeniable a great tyre, but just a little dull if you love driving.

https://www.tyrereviews.com/Tyre/Michelin/Pilot-Sp...

Interesting that the Goodyear has caught up. I've run the PS4s on the road car and a major step up from anything else (including Conti Sport 5s and the Falkens). Was going to buy them as a wet weather option for hillclimb competition work, but the Goodyears are a chunk cheaper. Do you think that they are a close match pace wise??

[jon-]

plenty said:

But best not to treat user-generated review scores as if they are gospel - being highly subjective in nature a dab of salt when interpreting is advisable.

I actually agree with this, and if I ever get around to the redesign, the new layout will reflect it. It's just taken a number of years to get the test data up.

To answer your other question about Conti wear, this is one of a few professional tests on the site to test wear

https://www.tyrereviews.com/Article/2020-Auto-Bild...

PC6 projected KM - 44900
PS4 projected KM - 33226

[slopes]

Jasandjules said:

I am very happy with mine - provide a lot of grip and I am not sure who is complaining about wet handling but I find them very good in the wet and going through large puddles I have more control and stability than before.

Not sure which variety of the Pilos Sport range that is standard fitment to the 308GTi i had but i concur. The only time i ever had an issue was when we got about an inch and a half of snow one day and going round a big round about at about 15mph, the back end broke away on me but that's it.
Oh and they perished before i ran out of tread depth but otherwise they were brilliant for me too.

[gizlaroc]

I went from Eagle F1 Asymmetrical 5 to PS4 on the same car.

For me, on the roads in the UK, the PS4 is a much better tyre. On the few, and it really is a few, billiard table smooth roads the AS5 I think is actually a bit more sporty, the steering feels a smidge sharper and you can feel what is going on a bit more, but for 99% of roads the extra bite the PS4 gives makes the car far less skittish.

It is still a very progressive tyre, in that you can feel exactly what it is doing at the back and feel if the rear end is about to start o break away, but it needs to be provoked for it to let go.

Also, in the damp/wet the PS4 is unreal to be honest. The AS5 I was always holding back, the traction light would flicker far too often and it felt a bit nervous when pressing on, with the PS4s it didn't feel all that much different to when it was dry. That is the first time I have had that feeling on any car/tyre I have owned before with the exception of maybe the S4 with PS2's 15 years ago, but even the RWD BMW with PS4s would allow much higher speeds than the S4 with PS2s.


The PS4 is a truly incredible tyre, for RWD cars anyway, I'm sure the differences with AWD and FWD are reduced somewhat. I have just stuck them on my Boxster and have been happily using it in the damp 1ºc temperatures.


I hope they start to off the PS4 "S" in more sizes soon.



Edit: I should say, I had run flats on the Z4 coupe when I swapped to the AS5, and in all honesty I had to check the AS5 was not a run flat version they had fitted by mistake.
That is what they felt like.
Hence I bit the bullet and swapped over to the Michelin PS4 after a few days.


There was nothing in it price wise either.....

Edited by gizlaroc on Saturday 9th January 12:13