RE: Final Holden Commodore special editions

RE: Final Holden Commodore special editions

Author
Discussion

Oddball RS

1,757 posts

217 months

Monday 23rd January 2017
quotequote all
Just put a V8 I the next VXR Insignia, problem solved.

Kawasicki

13,041 posts

234 months

Monday 23rd January 2017
quotequote all
Oddball RS said:
Just put a V8 I the next VXR Insignia, problem solved.
a transverse V8 is a bit of a challenge

big_rob_sydney

3,394 posts

193 months

Monday 23rd January 2017
quotequote all
Fox- said:
Gun said:
I've just spent a month driving a Commodore round Australia (the V6). It's a brave decision to stop making the V8 RWD version as you see them everywhere!

The current Commodore and Ford Falcon are great cars, would have been cool if they'd sold them in the UK.
This is such a shame as the ability to rent a Commodore SV6 or a Falcon XR6 is the best Aussie rental choice. What will replace them in the rental market as frankly crossing the Outback in a Toyota Corolla doesn't have the same sort of draw and the big premium cars are too expensive for rental firms over there.

So what will become the 'Premium' rental choice now? When does the Falcon stop?
Crossing the outback may mean different things to different people. You can use the highways for one, which means almost anything with 4 wheels, cargo carrying capacity, and very strong air con will do.

Then theres the idea of going through the bush and / or desert. Either of those, and you'd be better off with a dedicated 4WD. Not sure if you've seen it, but many (many) years ago, we had a couple of guys called the Leyland Brothers. They made careers and several movies about their travels across Australia. I suggest you have a look if you're interested to see how the locals do it.

As for the Falcon and Commodore, they work well in the local environment, mainly because petrol was cheap, and they like a drink. But lately other cars are outselling them, so they just don't bring in the revenue for the manufacturers. Purely from a manufacturing point of view and jobs for the local industry, its a great shame. But then they failed to read the market, and didn't introduce other technologies fast enough (eg diesel / hybrid), whereas their competitors did.

Oddball RS

1,757 posts

217 months

Monday 23rd January 2017
quotequote all
Kawasicki said:
Oddball RS said:
Just put a V8 I the next VXR Insignia, problem solved.
a transverse V8 is a bit of a challenge
It depends how the next Insignia platform is engineered, no?

paralla

3,528 posts

134 months

Monday 23rd January 2017
quotequote all
Hopefully they learnt some lessons from the last time they tried to sell a rebadged V6 Opel/Vauxhall.

The V6 Holden Vectra was more expensive than the significantly bigger/faster/V8/RWD locally made Commodore of the day. It really highlighted how poor value the imported offering was.

MattyB_

2,008 posts

256 months

Monday 23rd January 2017
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HappyMidget said:
Jimmy Recard said:
The Commodore was sold in the UK as the Vauxhall VXR8 (admittedly not the more basic versions)

Hardly anyone bought one!
You can still get them. About 50 or so of the current Gen-f GTS in the UK. Make a bloody good daily commuter. Mine is about to clock over 30k miles since I get it 2 years ago smile
They're awesome commuter cars, but the petrol consumption is shockingly bad! I averaged 17mpg out of my 6.0, my 5.5 AMG got over 23mpg on the same journey(s)!

Massively overlooked cars though, loads of fun. Prices have been steadily going up as well, if my mileage wasn't so high now I'd happily buy another.

Fox-

13,228 posts

245 months

Monday 23rd January 2017
quotequote all
big_rob_sydney said:
Crossing the outback may mean different things to different people. You can use the highways for one, which means almost anything with 4 wheels, cargo carrying capacity, and very strong air con will do.
My photos of the hire car at Mount Panorama wouldn't have looked as good if it was a Corolla rather than a Falcon XR6 frown

HappyMidget

6,788 posts

114 months

Monday 23rd January 2017
quotequote all
MattyB_ said:
They're awesome commuter cars, but the petrol consumption is shockingly bad! I averaged 17mpg out of my 6.0, my 5.5 AMG got over 23mpg on the same journey(s)!

Massively overlooked cars though, loads of fun. Prices have been steadily going up as well, if my mileage wasn't so high now I'd happily buy another.
Still cheaper to commute from Reading to Heathrow in the VXR8 than get the train into London smile

308mate

13,757 posts

221 months

Tuesday 24th January 2017
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big_rob_sydney said:
. But then they failed to read the market, and didn't introduce other technologies fast enough (eg diesel / hybrid), whereas their competitors did.
I'd say its more a case of not having a market large enough to support significant R&D. You couldnt get an ROI on proprietary technology or innovation using only the Australian market. The local industry only lasted as long as it did because of protectionism masquerading as safety in the form of the ADRs.

Kawasicki

13,041 posts

234 months

Tuesday 24th January 2017
quotequote all
Oddball RS said:
Kawasicki said:
Oddball RS said:
Just put a V8 I the next VXR Insignia, problem solved.
a transverse V8 is a bit of a challenge
It depends how the next Insignia platform is engineered, no?
Yep, they might bang in a transverse V8 and just live with the container ship turning circle.

Or more likely a turbo'd 4 cyl with 340 horses and awd.



anonymous-user

53 months

Tuesday 24th January 2017
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cry

dvs_dave

8,581 posts

224 months

Tuesday 24th January 2017
quotequote all
Kawasicki said:
Oddball RS said:
Kawasicki said:
Oddball RS said:
Just put a V8 I the next VXR Insignia, problem solved.
a transverse V8 is a bit of a challenge
It depends how the next Insignia platform is engineered, no?
Yep, they might bang in a transverse V8 and just live with the container ship turning circle.

Or more likely a turbo'd 4 cyl with 340 horses and awd.
Volvo did it with their V8 XC90 and S80. Also plenty of previous GM stuff over the years with transverse V8's. E.g. Impala SS, Cadillac STS etc. to name just a few.

Not saying they were any good, just saying that it's been done plenty of before, including GM.

captain_cynic

11,876 posts

94 months

Tuesday 24th January 2017
quotequote all
As an Australian, I have to chime in.

And nothing of value was lost.

The Falcodores (portmanteau of Falcon and Commodore) were nothing special. They were heavy, ungainly and underpowered for their engine capacities.

The V6 versions were easily outdone by NA hot hatches and the V8's only really did 0-60 MPH in the 5.5 second catagory. At the lights a V6 struggeled to keep up with from my Honda Integra (CTR engine) and the V8's struggled against 350/70z's. In the turns, there was no competition against a FWD hot Honda. Against German 3L turbos there was just no competition. In fact the only reason Holden lasted all of these years was the fact that German cars were insanely expensive in Oz (nowdays they're only stupidly expensive).

GM Holden tried exporting the Commodre, as the Chevrolet SS which was too expensive for the Americans and Vauxhaul VXR8 which was both expensive to insure and laughable against similarly priced competitors. Its only selling point here in the UK was the fact it was a V8 for under £40,000 which didn't perform as well as a BWM for the same price.

The most famous and popular Commodore ever made, the VL, made from 86 to 88 was good because it had a 3L Nissan made straight six turbo. A working VL turbo is worth more than some later model (VN to VZ) V8's as it's a far better performer.

Even the latest VF stock V8 only produces 270 KW (360 BHP) from 6.2L which you have got from 2L turbo's for a while now. Not to mention it's hardly what you can call economical.

framerateuk said:
Shame. The last Insignia was the more boring, uninspiring car I've ever driven.
The same can be said for a Commodore. Once you get over the novelty of engine capacity, there's really nothing remotely interesting about the car. It really is just a RWD Insignia and far too heavy to be any fun as a RWD.

Kawasicki

13,041 posts

234 months

Tuesday 24th January 2017
quotequote all
captain_cynic said:
As an Australian, I have to chime in.

And nothing of value was lost.

The Falcodores (portmanteau of Falcon and Commodore) were nothing special. They were heavy, ungainly and underpowered for their engine capacities.

The V6 versions were easily outdone by NA hot hatches and the V8's only really did 0-60 MPH in the 5.5 second catagory. At the lights a V6 struggeled to keep up with from my Honda Integra (CTR engine) and the V8's struggled against 350/70z's. In the turns, there was no competition against a FWD hot Honda. Against German 3L turbos there was just no competition. In fact the only reason Holden lasted all of these years was the fact that German cars were insanely expensive in Oz (nowdays they're only stupidly expensive).

GM Holden tried exporting the Commodre, as the Chevrolet SS which was too expensive for the Americans and Vauxhaul VXR8 which was both expensive to insure and laughable against similarly priced competitors. Its only selling point here in the UK was the fact it was a V8 for under £40,000 which didn't perform as well as a BWM for the same price.

The most famous and popular Commodore ever made, the VL, made from 86 to 88 was good because it had a 3L Nissan made straight six turbo. A working VL turbo is worth more than some later model (VN to VZ) V8's as it's a far better performer.

Even the latest VF stock V8 only produces 270 KW (360 BHP) from 6.2L which you have got from 2L turbo's for a while now. Not to mention it's hardly what you can call economical.

framerateuk said:
Shame. The last Insignia was the more boring, uninspiring car I've ever driven.
The same can be said for a Commodore. Once you get over the novelty of engine capacity, there's really nothing remotely interesting about the car. It really is just a RWD Insignia and far too heavy to be any fun as a RWD.
You just don't understand the loss as you don't appreciate this type of car.

Fox-

13,228 posts

245 months

Tuesday 24th January 2017
quotequote all
captain_cynic said:
In the turns, there was no competition against a FWD hot Honda.
Why would anyone expect or want a large, comfortable and powerful saloon to be 'competition against an FWD hot Honda' in the turns?

308mate

13,757 posts

221 months

Monday 30th January 2017
quotequote all
captain_cynic said:
As a died-in-the-wool Ricer, I have to chime in.


RIP Paul Walker
biggrin

QuantumTokoloshi

4,161 posts

216 months

Monday 30th January 2017
quotequote all
308mate said:
captain_cynic said:
As a died-in-the-wool Ricer, I have to chime in.


RIP Paul Walker
biggrin
biggrin V- tec yo........

What really killed the Australian Car industry by an industry insider, this gent does a good line in No b*llsh*t car reviews as well, very entertaining, and technically accurate too.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=62xwizjP67M&t=...