Second-hand tyres put lives at risk, councils warn
Discussion
shakindog said:
The age old argument of part worn tyres.
A new tyre has between 7-8 mm of thread new port worn could be as low as 3mm. A new tyre has plenty of come back as in from manufacturers or the place that fitted it if any problems occur.
Part place have car park warranty. Once off the car park it's nowt to do with them.
But I shall refrain from getting further involved. As I'm sure other experts know far more than me via Google.
Brand new tyre - a egg formed on the sidewall. 'They do that sometimes sir'.A new tyre has between 7-8 mm of thread new port worn could be as low as 3mm. A new tyre has plenty of come back as in from manufacturers or the place that fitted it if any problems occur.
Part place have car park warranty. Once off the car park it's nowt to do with them.
But I shall refrain from getting further involved. As I'm sure other experts know far more than me via Google.
Fox- said:
hora said:
Brand new tyre - a egg formed on the sidewall. 'They do that sometimes sir'.
Quite, sadly in my experience tyre manufacturers are not interested in a way that the manufacturer of no other product would get away with.Riley Blue said:
They are, all new tyres have a guarantee. If a brand new tyre deformed in the way described, you'd have a good claim.
I had exactly that happen 400 miles after collecting a car with brand new tyres fitted. All I had done is driven it down the M6 and the M5. Tyre manufacturer said get lost, probably impact damage. No impact had occurred.Personally, I would not buy part worns for reasons other posters have pointed out.
Nevertheless the article only says: "16 deaths and 908 road casualties that involved illegal, defective or under-inflated tyres, according to government figures."
(1) Not all of these will have been sold as part worn
(2) Even if most had, given that there appear to be so many part worn tyres out there, are these numbers a surprise? It does not say how many of those incidents were caused by (as opposed to 'involved') a tyre defect, or whether there is any evidence of cars on part worns being more prone to accident. Common sense might suggest yes but this article offers no evidence.
(3) And how many were 'underinflated' which has nothing to do with the point of the article?
If the BBC think 'involved ' means 'caused by' it would be nice if they said so!
Nevertheless the article only says: "16 deaths and 908 road casualties that involved illegal, defective or under-inflated tyres, according to government figures."
(1) Not all of these will have been sold as part worn
(2) Even if most had, given that there appear to be so many part worn tyres out there, are these numbers a surprise? It does not say how many of those incidents were caused by (as opposed to 'involved') a tyre defect, or whether there is any evidence of cars on part worns being more prone to accident. Common sense might suggest yes but this article offers no evidence.
(3) And how many were 'underinflated' which has nothing to do with the point of the article?
If the BBC think 'involved ' means 'caused by' it would be nice if they said so!
talksthetorque said:
But it's true.
How many people do you know (outside of knowing them through cars) have ever even taken a bend in a mildly entertaining manner?
Well, there was the so-called taxi driver who took me home the other week. I reckon he must have been standing in for his brother or something. Either way when he went over the narrow bridge at speed on the wrong side of the road in such a way as to obscure his view of oncoming traffic, that was more than mildly entertaining.How many people do you know (outside of knowing them through cars) have ever even taken a bend in a mildly entertaining manner?
It's down to peoples's knowledge, and as others have said many of us don't check our tyres/pressures as often as we should. One issue is the emphasis on tread depth, ok it's an important safety factor, but not the only one! The other factors such as tyre age are very important, but are lost to most people.
I know a family and they have had several accidents, they always buy aged french hatchbacks, do huge mileages on the cheapest nastiest tyres you can buy.
Two of them have ended up on their roofs in fields having slid off the road, giving everyone a view of the cheapy s
t tyres, bought new.
The cars are old, and dont have ESP which would probably have helped avoid them getting into a tankslapper on a fast A road in the wet on crap tyres, or at least had a better chance.
Point being, part worn, if a decent brand, to me are preferable to cheap tyres and a lot is down to the car as well, the main factor is how it is driven.
Part worns are low down the concern list for me, so many drive round on top of the range tyres until the cord is showing because they dont ever look, there was a Bentley Conti GT in at my local tyre place, the fitter shower me what was left of one of the tyres he took off, destroyed, completely illegal.
Two of them have ended up on their roofs in fields having slid off the road, giving everyone a view of the cheapy s
t tyres, bought new.The cars are old, and dont have ESP which would probably have helped avoid them getting into a tankslapper on a fast A road in the wet on crap tyres, or at least had a better chance.
Point being, part worn, if a decent brand, to me are preferable to cheap tyres and a lot is down to the car as well, the main factor is how it is driven.
Part worns are low down the concern list for me, so many drive round on top of the range tyres until the cord is showing because they dont ever look, there was a Bentley Conti GT in at my local tyre place, the fitter shower me what was left of one of the tyres he took off, destroyed, completely illegal.
Fastpedeller said:
J4CKO said:
I know a family and they have had several accidents, they always buy aged french hatchbacks, do huge mileages on the cheapest nastiest tyres you can buy.
They clearly don't learn then!I have a friend who has driven huge mileages in a series of old bangers with the cheapest Korean washing up bowls you can imagine. He hasn't had an accident that I can remember in 25 years. He can however drive like a demon as a result of a considerably misspent youth in which he drove any number of old cars at speeds sufficient to have the tyres off the rims.
It's not just about the tyres.
battered said:
They clearly don't know how to drive. Cheap tyres and elderly French hatchbacks are the least of their worries.
I have a friend who has driven huge mileages in a series of old bangers with the cheapest Korean washing up bowls you can imagine. He hasn't had an accident that I can remember in 25 years. He can however drive like a demon as a result of a considerably misspent youth in which he drove any number of old cars at speeds sufficient to have the tyres off the rims.
It's not just about the tyres.
Agree^I have a friend who has driven huge mileages in a series of old bangers with the cheapest Korean washing up bowls you can imagine. He hasn't had an accident that I can remember in 25 years. He can however drive like a demon as a result of a considerably misspent youth in which he drove any number of old cars at speeds sufficient to have the tyres off the rims.
It's not just about the tyres.
It is easy to get ripped off though if you don't know what you're doing.
Back in my younger days when I wasn't so specific about my cars and how they were ran and maintained I needed to get a new tyre due to a puncture. Not knowing standard practice is to replace across an axle or even to match treads I went down the route of getting a part worn.
I can't remember what triggered it but it was about a week later where I found the 'new' part worn tyre was on 1mm of tread and was illegal.
I'd paid £30 for that tyre at a local place thinking it was at least a decent legal tyre. I now avoid that specific garage and part worns and always go brand new across an axle.
As I was having the tyres fitted to replace the old one and the part worn. An Audi S5 rolled up and he asked for 1 new rear tyre. I watched the whole thing take place. They said his tyres were highly illegal and he'd need to get them both replaced so he agreed. As they took the wheel off the fitter noticed it was completely destroyed. The tyre was the only thing holding the wheel together. I saw the crack. It was insane. He even asked if they could just fit the new tyre. They refused. He asked them to put the wheel back on. They refused.
He ended up driving away with his alloy in the boot and the space saver on. Like I was. Some people just don't know.
Back in my younger days when I wasn't so specific about my cars and how they were ran and maintained I needed to get a new tyre due to a puncture. Not knowing standard practice is to replace across an axle or even to match treads I went down the route of getting a part worn.
I can't remember what triggered it but it was about a week later where I found the 'new' part worn tyre was on 1mm of tread and was illegal.
I'd paid £30 for that tyre at a local place thinking it was at least a decent legal tyre. I now avoid that specific garage and part worns and always go brand new across an axle.
As I was having the tyres fitted to replace the old one and the part worn. An Audi S5 rolled up and he asked for 1 new rear tyre. I watched the whole thing take place. They said his tyres were highly illegal and he'd need to get them both replaced so he agreed. As they took the wheel off the fitter noticed it was completely destroyed. The tyre was the only thing holding the wheel together. I saw the crack. It was insane. He even asked if they could just fit the new tyre. They refused. He asked them to put the wheel back on. They refused.
He ended up driving away with his alloy in the boot and the space saver on. Like I was. Some people just don't know.
Edited by ashleyman on Sunday 22 January 00:49
I'd buy part worn tyres if they were cheaper. I can get Michelins or Continentals for my car including fitting for £50 - £60 per tyre. Once you add in the £10 - £15 a garage charges for fitting each part worn tyre, because they weren't bought there, you'll probably be over the price of buying new tyres.
Fox- said:
E36Ross said:
So everytime someone buys a car, It's pretty much on partworn tyres..... What's the difference?
The difference is huge - it's about the provenance of a tyre.Why does my used car have part worn tyres on it? Because they were fitted as brand new tyres and have thus worn.
The same doesn't apply to random tyres at second hand tyre shops. Why are they there? Who knows. Perhaps they were given away by Mr Diligent who changed his perfectly good tyre on 6mm tread because it didn't match the other one. Perhaps they were junked for another reason by the previous owner. Perhaps they came off a scrap car - why was it scrap? Massive accident? What was the effect on the tyres? etc etc. Almost none of that applies to tyres fitted brand new to a car that was subsequently sold.
This is why I think that tyres on a used car or even a used full set of wheels are completely different to part worn tyres purchased as bare tyres.
Most people in this country dispose of a tyre only when it is no longer safe or useful as a tyre. So where do these supplies come from? A favourite excuse is 'Germany where they need to change them at 3mm' but tbh why would you want to be messing about buying used tyres with 3mm of tread anyway?
How do you know the PO didn't drive on one when it was flat or bounce up curbs ?
Because as on here idiots are told the rule is 3mm so they change them way before that.
Traders wanting to sell on a car can also stick a set of 3mm tyres and sell it on rather than a new set costing hundreds.
Obviously the majority are from crashed cars but the vast majority of crashes are car to object rather than tyre to object.
I've never heard of a tyre failure except when really old, under inflated, over loaded.
S0 What said:
BS, how the hell do you KNOW when the tyres on your S/H car were fitted ? how do you KNOW they were not part worn tyres fitted the week before you bought the vehical (you can get a set of 4 part worns you know) they cost more the more tyres that match but you can do it, how do you KNOW if the the tyres have not been curbed by the prev owner, how do you KNOW the reinforcing bands are not rusted internaty from water ingress from a tyre sitting flat in a puddle for a week, how do you KNOW the bands are not fractured from a pot hole, did you inspect every cm of every tyre for poor repairs ? did you, did you remove every tyre to check inside and the rim seat for damage? no of course you didn't that would be silly wouldn't it where as i can do that with every single part worn i buy, i check the inside, i watch them fitted , i watch them balenced, i watch them torque the nuts then I (as in me cos it's my responsablilaty) recheck them a few miles later.
Allways amazes me just how many part worns are fitted every year yet 99% of posters on the web "never fit part worns, i allways buy new" PAH you pesants ect ect, only ever bought maybe 20 (at the most) new tyres in 30 years driving, over 150 vehicals and ni on a million miles, nevr killed a nun or a kitten and i can count the amount of blow out on one hand (3 and one of them was in a hire car).
The real issue is peoples lack of safe practise, no-one checks thier tyres daily, no-one checks the pressures at least once a week, no-one takes the blame for thier own lack of care of a vehical they own and run ! thats the real issue, it's allways somone/something else to blame, then add onto that the compleat BS spouted on the web and the news agencys have a field day when some moron in the council who knows feck all about the subject spouts compleat cr@p and they add to it after carefully browsing the web for some juicy percentages posted by yet more morons on web forums, even looking briefly at their numbers, of that 16 deats i would bet 10 were due to low pressures that damaged the tyre but of course it was a part worn so obv it was damaged when sold wasn't it, cos the web and the council tell us they are not safe so lets blame them, then we can expande that to all part worns are sold by crooks, imigrants, tax dodgers ect ect ect ect ect
I run a back street garage i take a lot of run on a budget cars in for MOTs, i spend i hell of a lot of time in the tyre yard getting part worns fitted cos 90% cars i get in have fooked tyres, on-one and i mean NO-ONE looks at thier tyres, ever, family cars with 3 bald tyres is not unusuall, usually that new car that gets better millage than the last car but they cant afford to actually run, you know, got rid of the Mk4 astra and bought a 4 year old skoda that gets 5 mpg more but take tyres so expensive they run them bald and save up for the MOT cos they will need them all changing by then.
9.5 / 10 for that reply.Allways amazes me just how many part worns are fitted every year yet 99% of posters on the web "never fit part worns, i allways buy new" PAH you pesants ect ect, only ever bought maybe 20 (at the most) new tyres in 30 years driving, over 150 vehicals and ni on a million miles, nevr killed a nun or a kitten and i can count the amount of blow out on one hand (3 and one of them was in a hire car).
The real issue is peoples lack of safe practise, no-one checks thier tyres daily, no-one checks the pressures at least once a week, no-one takes the blame for thier own lack of care of a vehical they own and run ! thats the real issue, it's allways somone/something else to blame, then add onto that the compleat BS spouted on the web and the news agencys have a field day when some moron in the council who knows feck all about the subject spouts compleat cr@p and they add to it after carefully browsing the web for some juicy percentages posted by yet more morons on web forums, even looking briefly at their numbers, of that 16 deats i would bet 10 were due to low pressures that damaged the tyre but of course it was a part worn so obv it was damaged when sold wasn't it, cos the web and the council tell us they are not safe so lets blame them, then we can expande that to all part worns are sold by crooks, imigrants, tax dodgers ect ect ect ect ect
I run a back street garage i take a lot of run on a budget cars in for MOTs, i spend i hell of a lot of time in the tyre yard getting part worns fitted cos 90% cars i get in have fooked tyres, on-one and i mean NO-ONE looks at thier tyres, ever, family cars with 3 bald tyres is not unusuall, usually that new car that gets better millage than the last car but they cant afford to actually run, you know, got rid of the Mk4 astra and bought a 4 year old skoda that gets 5 mpg more but take tyres so expensive they run them bald and save up for the MOT cos they will need them all changing by then.
Edited by S0 What on Saturday 21st January 14:43
I only lopped half a mark off for spelling.
I'm baffled too about people being complacent about tyres, though luckily for me, 205/55r16 are so voluminous that the new price ( via a broker) is a small casj value over part worns, especially over a 3 or 4 year tyre life.
I recall getting quotes on part worns years ago from a breakers yard, and it was very much "I've got two you can have for £20".
I don't recall being offered the chance to peruse his stock, and cherry pick the best ones.
Still, I was barely out of school.
Ian
Tell you what, why not drain the oil from crashed cars too, save it in a sealed, labelled pot and you can all use that along with your part worn tyres ? Same thing . . . it's not been used fully so has some useful life left in it just like the tyres.
I can hear people with a VW PD engine or Volvo D5 engine cheering now at the prospect of half price oil
What else can we scavenge from crashed, written off and impounded then crushed cars ? Maybe the brake fluid is going a bit far eh, safety and all that ?
If saving money is so important and you're all so skint, maybe try driving a bit slower and learn to drive for economy ? You'll probably save more doing that than buying shagged, cast off tyres from back street garages.
I can hear people with a VW PD engine or Volvo D5 engine cheering now at the prospect of half price oil
What else can we scavenge from crashed, written off and impounded then crushed cars ? Maybe the brake fluid is going a bit far eh, safety and all that ?
If saving money is so important and you're all so skint, maybe try driving a bit slower and learn to drive for economy ? You'll probably save more doing that than buying shagged, cast off tyres from back street garages.
Ian Geary said:
I'm baffled too about people being complacent about tyres, though luckily for me, 205/55r16 are so voluminous that the new price ( via a broker) is a small casj value over part worns, especially over a 3 or 4 year tyre life.
I recall getting quotes on part worns years ago from a breakers yard, and it was very much "I've got two you can have for £20".
I don't recall being offered the chance to peruse his stock, and cherry pick the best ones.
Still, I was barely out of school.
Ian
I think 205/55/16 is what I have on my Mondeo and as you say they are for nothing. I can get 2 fitted and balanced for £75, so no point in scratching around. As for P/W, when I had the Vectra I trawled a few breakers because I wanted to change from leaky grotty allys to steel rims. I did get to peruse the stock and refused a few as having tired sidewalls etc. Best I managed was a steel spare that had never been on a car, it still had a manufacturer label. £20. The car was sold with that one fitted some months later.I recall getting quotes on part worns years ago from a breakers yard, and it was very much "I've got two you can have for £20".
I don't recall being offered the chance to peruse his stock, and cherry pick the best ones.
Still, I was barely out of school.
Ian
Wifey's Kia Sorento rear tyres needed replacing - I shopped around for new tyres and in the end I bought a set of secondhand matching BF Goodrich mud and snow tyres - they were ace in the snow last week. Much cheaper than the new budgets I could have had fitted.
The local immigrant tyre place where I bought them will put whatever st they can get away with if you let them - and as I witnessed stood there waiting, many people just want the cheapest option for a tyre that has a flat or failed the MOT.
If you have an idea about tyres you can get decent secondhand tyres - my wife hardly does any mileage so the expense on a new set of tyres that the next woner will now benefit from isn't worth it.
The local immigrant tyre place where I bought them will put whatever s
t they can get away with if you let them - and as I witnessed stood there waiting, many people just want the cheapest option for a tyre that has a flat or failed the MOT.If you have an idea about tyres you can get decent secondhand tyres - my wife hardly does any mileage so the expense on a new set of tyres that the next woner will now benefit from isn't worth it.
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