Second-hand tyres put lives at risk, councils warn

[Fox-]

Total loss said:

But that's just it isn't it, you can't give the inside of the tyres a once over.

Well yes you can. Sure it's enough of a faff to be excluded from your monthly checks but a one-off glance at the inside just after buying a random used car doesn't seem particularly outrageous does it?

[E36Ross]

How do you know their isn't a big patch on the tyre or maybe a slit on the bead rim?

See the other thread regards the bead rim damaged, Majority of replies here saying they wouldn't fit it..... Yet the OP could fit the tyre and sell the car? No one would know.

http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...



Point is NOT every partworn tyre is dangerous, Nor is every second hand car with tyres dangerous.


The bigger problem is bald, Unevenly worn, or incorrectly inflated Crap that people think is fine cause the car passed an MOT 7months ago. Partworn tyres are not the problem, People are.

Edited by E36Ross on Saturday 21st January 14:12

[otolith]

Saying that buying a new second-hand car is as risky as habitually buying part worns is like saying having unprotected sex with your long term partner is as risky having unprotected sex while sleeping around. I don't know what the magnitude of the risk of using part worn tyres is, but unless you change cars unusually frequently doing it every time you buy a car is less risky than doing it every time you buy a tyre.

[battered]

Fox- said:

How do you spot a reputable part worn?

Where do reputable part worns come from? People who fancy a change of tyre with 6mm tread left?

Scrapped cars, often. Most MoT fail cars have *some* legal tyres, in good condition, at least. In the nature of things some will be illegal and some will be new, with most being around 4-5mm. If there are 30M cars in the UK and
(say)3M new cars are sold every year then if 3M are scrapped then there will be ~15M used tyres going to breakers.

[S0 What]

Fox- said:

E36Ross said:

So everytime someone buys a car, It's pretty much on partworn tyres..... What's the difference?

The difference is huge - it's about the provenance of a tyre.

Why does my used car have part worn tyres on it? Because they were fitted as brand new tyres and have thus worn.

The same doesn't apply to random tyres at second hand tyre shops. Why are they there? Who knows. Perhaps they were given away by Mr Diligent who changed his perfectly good tyre on 6mm tread because it didn't match the other one. Perhaps they were junked for another reason by the previous owner. Perhaps they came off a scrap car - why was it scrap? Massive accident? What was the effect on the tyres? etc etc. Almost none of that applies to tyres fitted brand new to a car that was subsequently sold.

This is why I think that tyres on a used car or even a used full set of wheels are completely different to part worn tyres purchased as bare tyres.

Most people in this country dispose of a tyre only when it is no longer safe or useful as a tyre. So where do these supplies come from? A favourite excuse is 'Germany where they need to change them at 3mm' but tbh why would you want to be messing about buying used tyres with 3mm of tread anyway?

Unless you have a car with particularly large wheels (In which case you've made your own bed and should lie in it) then quality new tyres are not particularly expensive and generally last a very long time. So why bother with part worn tyres? Going to get some part worn brake pads too?

BS, how the hell do you KNOW when the tyres on your S/H car were fitted ? how do you KNOW they were not part worn tyres fitted the week before you bought the vehical (you can get a set of 4 part worns you know) they cost more the more tyres that match but you can do it, how do you KNOW if the the tyres have not been curbed by the prev owner, how do you KNOW the reinforcing bands are not rusted internaty from water ingress from a tyre sitting flat in a puddle for a week, how do you KNOW the bands are not fractured from a pot hole, did you inspect every cm of every tyre for poor repairs ? did you, did you remove every tyre to check inside and the rim seat for damage? no of course you didn't that would be silly wouldn't it where as i can do that with every single part worn i buy, i check the inside, i watch them fitted , i watch them balenced, i watch them torque the nuts then I (as in me cos it's my responsablilaty) recheck them a few miles later.

Allways amazes me just how many part worns are fitted every year yet 99% of posters on the web "never fit part worns, i allways buy new" PAH you pesants ect ect, only ever bought maybe 20 (at the most) new tyres in 30 years driving, over 150 vehicals and ni on a million miles, nevr killed a nun or a kitten and i can count the amount of blow out on one hand (3 and one of them was in a hire car).
The real issue is peoples lack of safe practise, no-one checks thier tyres daily, no-one checks the pressures at least once a week, no-one takes the blame for thier own lack of care of a vehical they own and run ! thats the real issue, it's allways somone/something else to blame, then add onto that the compleat BS spouted on the web and the news agencys have a field day when some moron in the council who knows feck all about the subject spouts compleat cr@p and they add to it after carefully browsing the web for some juicy percentages posted by yet more morons on web forums, even looking briefly at their numbers, of that 16 deats i would bet 10 were due to low pressures that damaged the tyre but of course it was a part worn so obv it was damaged when sold wasn't it, cos the web and the council tell us they are not safe so lets blame them, then we can expande that to all part worns are sold by crooks, imigrants, tax dodgers ect ect ect ect ect

I run a back street garage i take a lot of run on a budget cars in for MOTs, i spend i hell of a lot of time in the tyre yard getting part worns fitted cos 90% cars i get in have fooked tyres, on-one and i mean NO-ONE looks at thier tyres, ever, family cars with 3 bald tyres is not unusuall, usually that new car that gets better millage than the last car but they cant afford to actually run, you know, got rid of the Mk4 astra and bought a 4 year old skoda that gets 5 mpg more but take tyres so expensive they run them bald and save up for the MOT cos they will need them all changing by then.

Edited by S0 What on Saturday 21st January 14:43

[98elise]

E36Ross said:

So everytime someone buys a car, It's pretty much on partworn tyres..... What's the difference?

It's idiots flogging winter tyres and old damaged tyres that need clamping down on.

The difference is the part worn has been removed from another car for some reason. The problem is you don't know why. They could be legit, they could be fked.

I used to put part worns on years ago, but stopped when one developed a huge bulge a few days after it was fitted.

[Davie]

battered said:

Scrapped cars

You could expand on that and include police seizures, DVLA seizures, accident damaged, breakers and so on so yes, huge amount of tyres that aren't "scrap" are available.

I agree that the problems are more than likely down to dodgy traders punting garbage to people who are venerable (ie, broke, tight or clueless) and thus people are ending up with issues.

I'd happily buy buy worns but then I can check and spot issues before I commit... granted there is always something that could be missed but what's to say that 2 year old M5 on Sport Pilots hasn't hit a pothole and damage the inner sidewall on the rear and it blows out on the first powerfully built Autobahn jaunt.

Recently picked up a set of nigh on new Bridgestones on steel rims for a mate's C1, all four still had the moulding excess in place... they came from an Aygo in a local breaker with engine failure. Checked them before fitting, rebalanced etc and all good.

£40.00... so yes, I don't think "part worns" are dangerous, it's people's ignorance and stupidity that's dangerous.

[hora]

832ark said:

I get the point they're trying to make but there are something like 28 million second hand tyres sold in the UK each year attached to cars.

Yep. The issue is what have the part worns come off?

Written off cars?

[talksthetorque]

If a car has a front end smash, and the back of the car is untouched, there's two perfectly good tyres.

Moral question for those who would never fit part worns:

You lease a car for three years
According to your contract it needs an MOT before it goes back and fails for 2 tyres just below the legal limit. The contract states premium brand tyres. Bearing in mind it's getting picked up on Tuesday:

Do you put

A) part worns on at £40 a corner
B) cheapest decent branded at £120 a corner?

[Davie]

A huge factor is cost, might evade a number of people on here but not everybody can afford to spend £200 up to whatever on a set of tyres... same reason people fit the cheapest brake discs, the cheapest shock absorbers and scrimp on routine servicing. The motoring population of the UK is vast however when you consider how many of those don't know / care what they fit to car or haven't got the means to buy the best... it's little wonder stuff like this crops up on regular basis.

People quote monthly checks and so on but bear in mind, that concept is alien to probably 99% of the population. I work with people with cords poking out their tyres, headlights out, cars that are rattling because the last time it saw fresh oil was on the assembly line and when you say "Christ, you need to get that sorted!" you get a blank / vacant look and a story about how they can't afford to do X, Y or Z... before headed off to Next to buy shoes. Some people just don't see cars the same as you / me / us and so if they can get a tyre for a tenner rather than fifty quid, they'll do it and as for not thinking about the potential issues... it's not a case of not think... it's a case of being totally oblivious.

Edited by Davie on Saturday 21st January 15:05

Edited by Davie on Saturday 21st January 15:06

[*Al*]

Davie said:

A huge factor is cost, might evade a number of people on here but not everybody can afford to spend £200 up to whatever on a set of tyres... same reason people fit the cheapest brake discs, the cheapest shock absorbers and scrimp on routine servicing. The motoring population of the UK is vast however when you consider how many of those don't know / care what they fit to car or haven't got the means to buy the best... it's little wonder stuff like this crops up on regular basis.

People quote monthly checks and so on but bear in mind, that concept is alien to probably 99% of the population. I work with people with cords poking out their tyres, headlights out, cars that are rattling because the last time it saw fresh oil was on the assembly line and when you say "Christ, you need to get that sorted!" you get a blank / vacant look and a story about how they can't afford to do X, Y or Z... before headed off to Next to buy shoes. Some people just don't see cars the same as you / me / us and so if they can get a tyre for a tenner rather than fifty quid, they'll do it and as for not thinking about the potential issues... it's not a case of not think... it's a case of being totally oblivious.

Edited by Davie on Saturday 21st January 15:05

Edited by Davie on Saturday 21st January 15:06

All very true, we on PH have varying interests about cars whilst most car owners don't care less about their car.

[talksthetorque]

*Al* said:

Davie said:

A huge factor is cost, might evade a number of people on here but not everybody can afford to spend £200 up to whatever on a set of tyres... same reason people fit the cheapest brake discs, the cheapest shock absorbers and scrimp on routine servicing. The motoring population of the UK is vast however when you consider how many of those don't know / care what they fit to car or haven't got the means to buy the best... it's little wonder stuff like this crops up on regular basis.

People quote monthly checks and so on but bear in mind, that concept is alien to probably 99% of the population. I work with people with cords poking out their tyres, headlights out, cars that are rattling because the last time it saw fresh oil was on the assembly line and when you say "Christ, you need to get that sorted!" you get a blank / vacant look and a story about how they can't afford to do X, Y or Z... before headed off to Next to buy shoes. Some people just don't see cars the same as you / me / us and so if they can get a tyre for a tenner rather than fifty quid, they'll do it and as for not thinking about the potential issues... it's not a case of not think... it's a case of being totally oblivious.

Edited by Davie on Saturday 21st January 15:05

Edited by Davie on Saturday 21st January 15:06

All very true, we on PH have varying interests about cars whilst most car owners don't care less about their car.

To be fair if they are having to buy shoes from Next, they must be near bankruptcy.

But it's true.
How many people do you know (outside of knowing them through cars) have ever even taken a bend in a mildly entertaining manner?

[jkh112]

Fox- said:

Total loss said:

But that's just it isn't it, you can't give the inside of the tyres a once over.

Well yes you can. Sure it's enough of a faff to be excluded from your monthly checks but a one-off glance at the inside just after buying a random used car doesn't seem particularly outrageous does it?

I think most people would find it outrageous to have the tyres taken off the rims on a newly purchased used car so that they could do a one-off glance at the inside of the tyres.

[ging84]

jkh112 said:

Fox- said:

Total loss said:

But that's just it isn't it, you can't give the inside of the tyres a once over.

Well yes you can. Sure it's enough of a faff to be excluded from your monthly checks but a one-off glance at the inside just after buying a random used car doesn't seem particularly outrageous does it?

I think most people would find it outrageous to have the tyres taken off the rims on a newly purchased used car so that they could do a one-off glance at the inside of the tyres.

I think he is talking about the walls on the inside of the wheels as fitted to the car.

[Patrick Bateman]

jkh112 said:

Fox- said:

Total loss said:

But that's just it isn't it, you can't give the inside of the tyres a once over.

Well yes you can. Sure it's enough of a faff to be excluded from your monthly checks but a one-off glance at the inside just after buying a random used car doesn't seem particularly outrageous does it?

I think most people would find it outrageous to have the tyres taken off the rims on a newly purchased used car so that they could do a one-off glance at the inside of the tyres.

I think there is a communication break down here.

[jkh112]

Ahh, I see: Total loss was talking about the insides of the tyre, Fox seems to be referring the inside face.

Edited by jkh112 on Saturday 21st January 16:09

[Fox-]

jkh112 said:

Ahh, I see: Total loss was talking about the insides of the tyre, Fox seems to be referring the inside face.

Edited by jkh112 on Saturday 21st January 16:09

Yes, I'm referring to the inside face, ie the sidewall that you rarely see but with a bit of effort can inspect.

The point that is being missed though is that the reason for a worn tyre being present on a used car is such that the chances of it being damaged in that way are far less than the chances of a random second hand tyre being suspect in some way.

Where do these part worn tyres come from? What is the main source and why do they exist? The vast majority of people only finish with a tyre when it is beyond its useful life.

[hora]

talksthetorque said:

If a car has a front end smash, and the back of the car is untouched, there's two perfectly good tyres.

Moral question for those who would never fit part worns:

You lease a car for three years
According to your contract it needs an MOT before it goes back and fails for 2 tyres just below the legal limit. The contract states premium brand tyres. Bearing in mind it's getting picked up on Tuesday:

Do you put

A) part worns on at £40 a corner
B) cheapest decent branded at £120 a corner?

Do you think breakers etc etc bin the fronts or look at them and think 'looks ok'?

Wouldn't want the car having a tyre blowout at 80 due to a weakened point/structure

[Granfondo]

Should this not be on the "council thread" ?

[shakindog]

The age old argument of part worn tyres.
A new tyre has between 7-8 mm of thread new port worn could be as low as 3mm. A new tyre has plenty of come back as in from manufacturers or the place that fitted it if any problems occur.
Part place have car park warranty. Once off the car park it's nowt to do with them.

But I shall refrain from getting further involved. As I'm sure other experts know far more than me via Google.