RE: GT faster than Ferrari! (According to Ford)
Discussion
big_rob_sydney said:
s2000db said:
Actually I'm still sore that I wasn't allocated a car, despite surviving driving several Fords in the 80's... lol..
Just out of curiosity, do you know the story of the Ford Pinto's petrol tanks?big_rob_sydney said:
I've heard Elon Musk say that the battery tech is improving by around 30% a year.
In the only real way it counts (power density), that's a pipe dream.Example: the Tesla Model S came out in 2012, with an 85kWh battery.
The best you can get in 2017 is a 100kWh battery, 5 years later; 17% better over 5 years, which is about 3.5% a year.
If the battery tech had truly been getting better at 30% a year, You'd be able to get a model S with a 315kWh battery today.
Battery chemistry hasn't changed much.
s2000db said:
big_rob_sydney said:
s2000db said:
Actually I'm still sore that I wasn't allocated a car, despite surviving driving several Fords in the 80's... lol..
Just out of curiosity, do you know the story of the Ford Pinto's petrol tanks?mumble mumble Volkswagen massive unprecedented fine
mumble mumble American company vs European company
mumble mumble unequal treatment.
TL;DR It's cheaper to kill people in the states if you're a US company than to cheap emissions in the states if you're an EU company
There's been a lot of talk about the amount of downforce the Ford GT produces, and it seems generally that manufacturers are very keen to hype up 'aero' in the cars as well these days like in the 991RS.... Even supposing claimed downforce numbers are correct and a car can produce a non negligible amount of downforce (maybe 100kg?) at say 100mph (so 400kg at 200mph assuming no active elements to trim the wings at speed), are road car tyres capable of actually utilising all or even most that extra potential tyre grip to get any substantial performance benefit? The Cup2 that the Ford is using per the spec sheet is a very good tyre but it's a very long way from a racing slick. If anyone who has experience in vehicle engineering could comment I'd be very interested....
To be fait to Ferrari and MC Laren their two cars were pimped up road cars, the Fawd is a custom built homologation car with which to win Le Mans. Still nice though. Amazing what the yanks can do when they actually pull their fingers out.
It clearly sits between the 675LT and P1 not as a competitor to it.
It clearly sits between the 675LT and P1 not as a competitor to it.
CraigyMc said:
mumble mumble Ford slap on the wrist
mumble mumble Volkswagen massive unprecedented fine
mumble mumble American company vs European company
mumble mumble unequal treatment.
TL;DR It's cheaper to kill people in the states if you're a US company than to cheap emissions in the states if you're an EU company
Don't worry I'm sure Mr Trump will clamp down on such corporate irresponsibility. Hahahaha. mumble mumble Volkswagen massive unprecedented fine
mumble mumble American company vs European company
mumble mumble unequal treatment.
TL;DR It's cheaper to kill people in the states if you're a US company than to cheap emissions in the states if you're an EU company
smilo996 said:
It clearly sits between the 675LT and P1 not as a competitor to it.
In price, perhaps. It'll be slower than the 675LT in plenty of dimensions though.The GT is too heavy. Ford don't have the in-house talent in depth that they need to compete with the companies who develop stuff like this all the time.
CraigyMc said:
Ford don't have the in-house talent in depth that they need to compete with the companies who develop stuff like this all the time.
Yes, they clearly don't have an in-house research organisation producing all sorts of patentable technologies or a substantial manufacturing organisation to support this, compared to (for example) McLaren who rely heavily on subcontractors to deal with all those little issues like developing the engines and tubs and handling integration.The weight isn't from not knowing how to develop the chassis or power train.
Jonesy23 said:
CraigyMc said:
Ford don't have the in-house talent in depth that they need to compete with the companies who develop stuff like this all the time.
Yes, they clearly don't have an in-house research organisation producing all sorts of patentable technologies or a substantial manufacturing organisation to support this, compared to (for example) McLaren who rely heavily on subcontractors to deal with all those little issues like developing the engines and tubs and handling integration.The weight isn't from not knowing how to develop the chassis or power train.
Ford don't engineer carbon chassis supercars very often. McLaren/Ferrari do.
Note that I didn't talk about their lack of patentable technologies or the size of their engineering organisation - those are all your words.
I f
king hate it when people on PH spout bks just to win an argument.CraigyMc said:
big_rob_sydney said:
I've heard Elon Musk say that the battery tech is improving by around 30% a year.
In the only real way it counts (power density), that's a pipe dream.Example: the Tesla Model S came out in 2012, with an 85kWh battery.
The best you can get in 2017 is a 100kWh battery, 5 years later; 17% better over 5 years, which is about 3.5% a year.
If the battery tech had truly been getting better at 30% a year, You'd be able to get a model S with a 315kWh battery today.
Battery chemistry hasn't changed much.
CraigyMc said:
I've heard Elon Musk say that the battery tech is improving by around 30% a year.
In the only real way it counts (power density), that's a pipe dream.
Example: the Tesla Model S came out in 2012, with an 85kWh battery.
The best you can get in 2017 is a 100kWh battery, 5 years later; 17% better over 5 years, which is about 3.5% a year.
If the battery tech had truly been getting better at 30% a year, You'd be able to get a model S with a 315kWh battery today.
You can't extrapolate the maximum capacity of a single model line to draw any valid conclusions about battery tech in general. Firstly they could easily produce an SUV with 2 packs and twice the capacity with exactly the same battery which obviously tells you nothing. Improvement in battery tech isn't just about energy density; cost, longevity, charge times, peak power, internal efficiency are all improving rapidly (especially cost/kWh halved in 5 years).In the only real way it counts (power density), that's a pipe dream.
Example: the Tesla Model S came out in 2012, with an 85kWh battery.
The best you can get in 2017 is a 100kWh battery, 5 years later; 17% better over 5 years, which is about 3.5% a year.
If the battery tech had truly been getting better at 30% a year, You'd be able to get a model S with a 315kWh battery today.
http://www.emvalley.com/
Scroll down for the relevant graphs
Edited by anonymous-user on Friday 27th January 18:24
CraigyMc said:
Way to twist the point - kudos.
Ford don't engineer carbon chassis supercars very often. McLaren/Ferrari do.
Note that I didn't talk about their lack of patentable technologies or the size of their engineering organisation - those are all your words.
I fking hate it when people on PH spout bks just to win an argument.
You said it's too heavy - which is a matter of opinion and also not exactly a result of engineering a crappy tub. You also said the in-house talent didn't exist in depth compared to the others; there is (by necessity) plenty of in-house talent. And even if there was a gap there was always the option of hiring in *which is what one of the competitors does* rather than having all that stuff in-house. So who is spouting bFord don't engineer carbon chassis supercars very often. McLaren/Ferrari do.
Note that I didn't talk about their lack of patentable technologies or the size of their engineering organisation - those are all your words.
I f
king hate it when people on PH spout bks just to win an argument.ks? WCZ said:
turbobloke said:
Why would anyone buy a Ford GT because it's claimed to be faster than a Ferrari, very odd.
There are reasons to buy one I guess but this is the real world not top trumps.
it's not like that, it's another 'car you can't buy', they aren't bragging to try and sell these - it's just brand hype.There are reasons to buy one I guess but this is the real world not top trumps.
the only guarantee was owning the previous Ford GT (ideally still having it in your possession, I know former owners who were rejected)
In which case I'll have a Porsche 911R instead.
Then again...maybe not!
Great things, these cars you can't buy.
Jonesy23 said:
BlackLabel said:
$520,000 spec'd up according to Shmee150 who mentioned a few days ago that he'd be paying a 50% deposit 9 months or so before delivery,
Says a lot about their customer selection criteria if Shmee is on the list.AMG Merc said:
s2000db said:
Perhaps now I see the logic of their selection list...
AMG Merc said:
Now Helen, you know that's already at the maximum £25million
Do you have a delivery date for the new GT yet? Awaiting invite
Do you have a delivery date for the new GT yet? Awaiting invite
No, we're supposed to be ordering (and therefore putting down the ludicrously expensive deposit) fairly soon (I presume ahead of Shmee
), but so far have had very little info from Ford. Our concierge, whilst amiable, seems to know no more than we do - in fact what little info we are getting is via friends in the States, not that they can help with questions that are European specific. We keep being told that we'll get the info in due course, but at the moment we don't know what'll cost, what options will be available to us, when it'll turn up (in theory that should be within a year but now looking unlikely), dealer and servicing info etc. Initially we thought that it was simply because we're in the UK and Ford are concentrating on their US customers that we were being ignored, but some of what we're hearing from others in the States would suggest that they are equally in the dark - eg no-one knew what the specs (bhp, weight etc) were until they were released to the press in the last few days, so some have had to order without knowing that info, and even their order kits (they are late sending them out)! The only info they had which we don't, is the base price and cost of options in $ (many of which would make Ferrari blush
). Obviously we don't know how those prices will translate - all we're being told is that we'll be paying in £. We're not prepared to order 'blind' like that, so I suppose we'll just have to keep waiting.I can't say I've been impressed with the process so far, when they said it'd be like no other, they weren't wrong, just not in a good way, unfortunately. It seems odd that a 720S, which hasn't even been unveiled at Geneva yet, could turn up before the NFGT, a car that we showed serious commitment to (we gave up our 918 slot for this 'opportunity') over two years ago.
The danger with all these delays and misinformation, is that we'll get into a situation similar to the NSX.
In that it was hyped, and shown, to the press for so long before it's delayed released, that the competition had caught and passed it by the time it was on sale. So hence became a bit of a damp squib by the time the buying public got their hands on it... imo etc..
In that it was hyped, and shown, to the press for so long before it's delayed released, that the competition had caught and passed it by the time it was on sale. So hence became a bit of a damp squib by the time the buying public got their hands on it... imo etc..
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