RE: Mercedes tyre 'skipping' - official statement

[drmark]

Seems a lot of fuss over nowt. My cars have always done this on lock, particularly in cold - both 4WD (997 and RS6). Never given it a second thought.

[jimmybell]

I also get this in my W204 C63 (12 plate), running fresh OEM tyres (conti sport contact) in cold weather. Started happening towards the end of the year - i took it in and asked them (Merc garage) to investigate during my MOT work, they came back saying effectively what the article says - it's common, and might be a result of low tread front tyres.

I suspect that was a chinese whisper with the mechanic original comment being 'low grip'. I don't think most sports tyres (MPSS on my BMW too) do too well below 10 celcius.

Edited by jimmybell on Sunday 29th January 19:14

[anonymous-user]

drmark said:

Seems a lot of fuss over nowt. My cars have always done this on lock, particularly in cold - both 4WD (997 and RS6). Never given it a second thought.

Yup, you do wonder what all the fuss is about. I find it remarkably easy to avoid using "full lock" unless I really need to.

[RATATTAK]

rockin said:

drmark said:

Seems a lot of fuss over nowt. My cars have always done this on lock, particularly in cold - both 4WD (997 and RS6). Never given it a second thought.

Yup, you do wonder what all the fuss is about. I find it remarkably easy to avoid using "full lock" unless I really need to.

Well you are both right of course but, if you experience the effect and you don't understand the physics, and no one you ask can explain it properly, and if you worry about the possible outcome if it's a defect in your car, then reading this thread will help you to sleep more easily ...

[Cyb3rDud3]

rockin said:

Yup, you do wonder what all the fuss is about. I find it remarkably easy to avoid using "full lock" unless I really need to.

Thing is it doesn't happen at just full lock, but hey if you accept this in a car then good for you.

My GLS didn't do this which was my most recent Mercedes. As a repeat buyer I think it is reasonable to not expect that in another car out of their range. If it came with a warning prior to buying then fair enough but it doesn't.

[RATATTAK]

http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...

[Euan Dawson]

Our 2014 model year C220cdi seems to have same problem. If you study the wheels at full lock , you will see both tyres running on their edges and not flat to the ground , the steering geometry dictates.
However as we are all acknowledging, there are issues with the geometry at full lock is incorrect causing judder.
The end result if most driving is in town , negotiating car parks and tight manoeuvres as a daily duty ,,,,, you'll need new front tyres every 8000 miles!
Can't make up my mind if this is progress?
I've had Merc,s for 30 years and loved every one , every time I park up it brings me back to school days rubbing out mistakes , except this rubber is £400 pr.

[havoc]

So, let me get this straight:

In the interests of extreme-performance behaviour (>>100mph stability, which your average owner will experience...ooh, possibly NEVER!), and in the interests of "marketing/image" (ultra-low profile alloys on a heavy 4wd car, which make no fking sense whatsoever), Merc (and others it appears) have compromised day-to-day behaviour and tyre life?

Have I got that right? I just want to check that these oh-so-fking clever engineers have got their priorities straight...




Lunatics / asylum...

[Gary C]

My old STi with the suretrac LSD did this, especially in reverse.

Didn't care.

My 3.2 carrera with the Fuchs wheels has an enormous scrub on the front (so much so, it takes both hands to turn the wheel at parking speed) but doesn't skip at all.

[Kenny Powers]

havoc said:

So, let me get this straight:

In the interests of extreme-performance behaviour (>>100mph stability, which your average owner will experience...ooh, possibly NEVER!), and in the interests of "marketing/image" (ultra-low profile alloys on a heavy 4wd car, which make no fking sense whatsoever), Merc (and others it appears) have compromised day-to-day behaviour and tyre life?

Have I got that right? I just want to check that these oh-so-fking clever engineers have got their priorities straight...




Lunatics / asylum...

All design of any kind is a set of compromises around chosen criteria, so yes. But priorities are not the same for everyone. The solution here is to either accept the set of compromises with this vehicle, or buy something different. I wouldn't worry too much, the sun will still rise in the morning

Edited by Kenny Powers on Monday 30th January 00:58

[havoc]

Kenny Powers said:

All design of any kind is a set of compromises around chosen criteria, so yes. But priorities are not the same for everyone. The solution here is to either accept the set of compromises with this vehicle, or buy something different. I wouldn't worry too much, the sun will still rise in the morning

I'm only suggesting Merc's priorities are rather twisted as they're fundamentally different from most buyers.

Anyway, I'm not worrying that much - not in the market for a 4wd Merc - just stunned that the automotive industry can try and defend this st...

[Kenny Powers]

havoc said:

I'm only suggesting Merc's priorities are rather twisted as they're fundamentally different from most buyers.

Anyway, I'm not worrying that much - not in the market for a 4wd Merc - just stunned that the automotive industry can try and defend this st...

Yeah well fair enough, that's your opinion. I would suggest, however, that "most buyers" probably aren't part of the vocal minority. In the end, whether or not we enthusiasts approve, if Mercedes had fitted these vehicles with 16" wheels and tall rubber, they would hardly sell any. I am fairly certain that they know who most of their buyers are, and I'm reasonably confident that the majority will either never know about this issue or never care. I know I would be happy to accept it for the chance to own such a beast.

For what it matters, I've owned a car (FWD) that exhibited this behaviour in cold temperatures on block paving. It wasn't very pleasant, but it also wasn't worth crying over. That said, I do of course freely admit to not having driven the Mercedes in question, but from the videos I've seen, it's no more severe than with any other car that also does it.

[Lowtimer]

havoc said:

I just want to check that these oh-so-fking clever engineers have got their priorities straight...

Lunatics / asylum...

The priority of the engineers is keeping their jobs and delivering whatever they are told to deliver by commercial management. Decisions on sturpid wheel sizes are made by stylists, and stylists and marketing go hand in hand. So don;t blame the engineers, blame the stylists and the marketeing people, and ultimately consumer demand for falling down the rabbithold of this whole fallacy that enormous wheels are "sporty" and therefore "good".

[havoc]

I'm referring as much to prioritising ultra-high-speed stability over low-speed behaviour as I am to the whole "silly wheel brigade" (which I agree is entirely down to the felt-tip fairies, as an ex-colleague of mine (in design!) used to describe them...).

Hence why I'm criticising the engineers (at least in part).

[Mole51]

This is incredibly common in winter on my M135i with Super Sports. Infact it happens almost all the time in less than 10c conditions and on full lock. Apparently a common problem for M135i's...

[Mr2Mike]

havoc said:

felt-tip fairies

havoc said:

So, let me get this straight:

In the interests of extreme-performance behaviour (>>100mph stability, which your average owner will experience...ooh, possibly NEVER!), and in the interests of "marketing/image" (ultra-low profile alloys on a heavy 4wd car, which make no fking sense whatsoever), Merc (and others it appears) have compromised day-to-day behaviour and tyre life?

Have I got that right? I just want to check that these oh-so-fking clever engineers have got their priorities straight...

Lunatics / asylum...

So you'd prefer Mercedes to compromise on high speed stability on a 400+bhp car? There is a lunatic here, but not within Mercedes engineers...

Edited by Mr2Mike on Friday 3rd February 07:40

[HannsG]

99dndd said:

Is it just me, or do we see some sort of new Mercedes Benz reliability issue thread on here every week?

I made the mistake of buying a brand new 2003 E Class.

Two torque converters, one clutch plate and two gearboxes later. I learnt a valuable lesson.

Never buy a Mercedes

EDIT: Surely this phenomenon is not new? The Q7 suffers from it surely?

Edited by HannsG on Friday 3rd February 08:15

[Traff]

I've got the A45 AMG and while it may not be a massive problem it is annoying and tbh makes the car feel very cheap!

[NAS]

Lowtimer said:

havoc said:

I just want to check that these oh-so-fking clever engineers have got their priorities straight...

Lunatics / asylum...

The priority of the engineers is keeping their jobs and delivering whatever they are told to deliver by commercial management. Decisions on sturpid wheel sizes are made by stylists, and stylists and marketing go hand in hand. So don;t blame the engineers, blame the stylists and the marketeing people, and ultimately consumer demand for falling down the rabbithold of this whole fallacy that enormous wheels are "sporty" and therefore "good".

And blame customers. In Central Europe, stability at 125mph plus for when they drive in Germany is a key reason why many people buy these cars.....

[nbetts]

markoc said:

My Boxster does this - and having looked at ackerman in the past (doubting the dealer's "they all do that sir...") I'd have thought that bigger wheels won't help. Mine's on factory 19's so perhaps more pronounced than in previous Boxtsers which have been on 17's and 18's.

I guess the compromise of absolute full lock slow speed manouevre (low frequency event) versus handling at speed (high frequency event) is the payoff...

... but I'm no engineer.

My Boxster 981 on 20" rims is terrible for doing this in low temperatures on full lock - reversing off the drive almost feels like something is broken - or there is a really tight LSD between the front wheels - and seeing as the Boxster is neither front wheel drive or all wheel drive - it definitely cannot be that...