RE: Porsche 911 Carrera 4 GTS: Driven

[Oddball RS]

Just my two pence worth.

"Its too wide....." is it wider than the rest of the Carrera 4 / Turbos? or for that matter anything else that fits in this type of market segment?

Is the comment more likely because you were sat on the wrong side?

"The PDK doesn't add to the excitement...." it never has, drive a manual version.

I don't see either of the above as really car 'faults'

[boringbeige]

To Oddballrs ....... i also think that the gts feels a bit too wide on occasion. It doesn t on most roads, just on little nadgety country lanes, and only when a car comes the other way. So not very often, But yes, there are times when I wish it was a couple of inches narrower.

[likesachange]

boringbeige said:

hey Likesachange.....of course there will be some subconscious aspect of my mind that protects some of my cars, but I try to not be like that. They all did track days in 2016. I took the f40 to scotland for a week where it lived outside and got driven every day. However, I stand by what I said, i really do think my 991.1gts is the best sportscar I own. Mine has the the 20mm dropped suspension and is a 2wd coupe without a sunroof. It had pdk. I have done 14,000 miles in it. Prior to this car I did 10,000 miles in a 991.1 gts that did not have the dropped suspension, had a glass sunroof and was a manual 2wd; that car was not as good, in fact I hated it. I sold it to get my current gts with it's different spec. So there you are,,, I've put it out there: I think my pdk gts is a better sports car than my 997.2gt3rs.

Credit to you for taking the F40 up Scotland and using it ! I know i would given the opportunity. A local guy has one and only has something like 1200 miles on it. Again i don't blame him either as its his choice and his money... Cant be many this far north (Carlisle) oh and if your ever wanting a blast up this way even as far up as 50 miles north of Carlisle there are some awesome roads, Give me a message and I'll lead the way

Out of interest have you tried all other marques, especially the new R8 Plus .... seems a bargain to me compared to the Porsche, (ceramics standard etc) although maybe lacking the low down grunt.

[m88ony]

boringbeige said:

hey Likesachange.....of course there will be some subconscious aspect of my mind that protects some of my cars, but I try to not be like that. They all did track days in 2016. I took the f40 to scotland for a week where it lived outside and got driven every day. However, I stand by what I said, i really do think my 991.1gts is the best sportscar I own. Mine has the the 20mm dropped suspension and is a 2wd coupe without a sunroof. It had pdk. I have done 14,000 miles in it. Prior to this car I did 10,000 miles in a 991.1 gts that did not have the dropped suspension, had a glass sunroof and was a manual 2wd; that car was not as good, in fact I hated it. I sold it to get my current gts with it's different spec. So there you are,,, I've put it out there: I think my pdk gts is a better sports car than my 997.2gt3rs.

Got to agree with the above. Owned many cars and have found the 991.1 GTS sublime and my all time favourite. Yet to drive the .2 GTS so can't have an opinion between the two but the N/A howl and nailing the revs in the gen 1 GTS is so much fun. Will be difficult to replace this one.

[boringbeige]

likesachange....... I drove the last gen R8 in both manual v8 and flappy paddle v10 plus. I found the v8 lacking in straight line shove but otherwise great fun. It had the magnet dampers and stayed very flat. The v10 plus had plenty of performance but felt heavy and cumbersome compared to the v8. Compared to a 911, there is nowhere to throw coats and jackets and maps and hats and gloves and butties etc when going out for the day. So i scored it down on usability. And when driven 'spritedly' the r8 doesn't get up on it's toes like a 911. So after a week in each one, I didn't buy either of them.

[likesachange]

boringbeige said:

likesachange....... I drove the last gen R8 in both manual v8 and flappy paddle v10 plus. I found the v8 lacking in straight line shove but otherwise great fun. It had the magnet dampers and stayed very flat. The v10 plus had plenty of performance but felt heavy and cumbersome compared to the v8. Compared to a 911, there is nowhere to throw coats and jackets and maps and hats and gloves and butties etc when going out for the day. So i scored it down on usability. And when driven 'spritedly' the r8 doesn't get up on it's toes like a 911. So after a week in each one, I didn't buy either of them.

Don't mistake the old one for the new one though.... New one has circa 100 bhp more and 100 kg less... 2 very different cars by all accounts. This time it isn't a toned down Lambo. I just cant see how the GTS can compete with a new v10 620 bhp ceramic braked Audi TT i mean R8 but tbf the 120-130k price range doesn't seem to offer a huge range of "special" cars that would also be comfy as a daily.

But really the only people who's points are valid are people who have had first hand experience of the GTS. I think it looks great in the grey too

Edited by likesachange on Wednesday 1st February 13:26

[MarshPhantom]

The 911 doesn't get better looking with age, does it.

[Matt Bird]

Oddball RS said:

Just my two pence worth.

"Its too wide....." is it wider than the rest of the Carrera 4 / Turbos? or for that matter anything else that fits in this type of market segment?

Is the comment more likely because you were sat on the wrong side?

"The PDK doesn't add to the excitement...." it never has, drive a manual version.

I don't see either of the above as really car 'faults'

Well it's only 28mm narrower than a Turbo, and I think the issue is that the car is obviously much wider at the back than the front. The LHD will have made it harder to get used to, but fundamentally it never feels entirely at home on smaller roads. That seems a bit of a shame for a 911. As I said though, for many the looks will probably be a worthwhile trade-off.

As for the PDK, I did say the engine would be better suited to a manual? The PDK could be more exciting though, just with small tweaks like larger paddles (see Alfa/Maserati/Clio RS) and a longer travel, just to feel like there's a bit more for the driver to do.

[Deep]

MarshPhantom said:

The 911 doesn't get better looking with age, does it.

I think it does.

[Oddball RS]

Matt Bird said:

Oddball RS said:

Just my two pence worth.

"Its too wide....." is it wider than the rest of the Carrera 4 / Turbos? or for that matter anything else that fits in this type of market segment?

Is the comment more likely because you were sat on the wrong side?

"The PDK doesn't add to the excitement...." it never has, drive a manual version.

I don't see either of the above as really car 'faults'

Well it's only 28mm narrower than a Turbo, and I think the issue is that the car is obviously much wider at the back than the front. The LHD will have made it harder to get used to, but fundamentally it never feels entirely at home on smaller roads. That seems a bit of a shame for a 911. As I said though, for many the looks will probably be a worthwhile trade-off.

As for the PDK, I did say the engine would be better suited to a manual? The PDK could be more exciting though, just with small tweaks like larger paddles (see Alfa/Maserati/Clio RS) and a longer travel, just to feel like there's a bit more for the driver to do.

Matt, and other poster, yes I see your points but there are SOOOOOOOOO many variants of the 911 that details aside, you want a narrower one, then buy a narrower one, you want a manual one then buy one (Porsche's daft policy being ignored for a moment) they just don't seem like fair or reasoned whinges in the article they new what they were being given, the width in particular was one of the reasons the 997 was falling behind Motorsport wise so this was a compromise to plastic arches and wider tyres and is well pretty understandable, if you want a narrow car for narrow lanes buy something else, its always been a 'sportscar' gripe they tend to be wider. Not meaning to come across as testy but they just seem obvious.

[epom]

Deep said:

MarshPhantom said:

The 911 doesn't get better looking with age, does it.

I think it does.

I think that looks smashing, the main pic especially

[DPSFleet]

Too good maybe? I can understand why people want the old air-cooled jobbies - small, nimble, challenging for the driver and surely quick enough? Maybe i am just sentimental. Wonder how much longer we will be allowed to drive a piston car....?

[Kieran1985]

Matt Bird said:

Kieran1985 said:

PistonBroker said:

No need to defend yourself Matt. The review was refreshingly honest actually.

I can only conclude that anyone criticising your stance skipped straight to the last line.

No, I read the whole review. Contrasting as it was, it read to me that Matt wasn't overly keen on it as he stated to start off with but daren't actually conclude it was a dull, effortless car.

"with what feels like a fairly linear delivery now, a gear doesn't have to be driven right out" "it feels like a relentless stream of acceleration rather than one with peaks to chase and troughs to avoid"

"the desire of this engine to rev out will keep you venturing back"


Could be talking about 2 different engines there.

Maybe it's the whole fear of what happened with Chris Harris and Ferrari.

I'm not going to call the car dull or effortless, because it isn't. Fact is people like us would probably want a bit more going on in their expensive sports car, hence my comments. Those people who actually buy 911s probably don't.

As for the engine, my point was that it can feel a little underwhelming to start with as there isn't that step-up in performance you had with the old 3.8 at about 4,000rpm. But that becomes less of an issue the more you drive it and it's actually incredibly responsive and willing for a twin-turbo engine.

Thanks for the feedback. It's interesting to hear more of your views and explainations. I hope you don't think I was criticising you personally, I enjoy your articles usually.
Perhaps more of an issue is the fact that modern supercars are becoming too fast they are needing to be dulled down to make them accessible, meaning they feel inert at sensible speeds. I'd like to try a 2wd manual GTS maybe that would bring some character.

[Chipper]

Autocars review is considerably more positive and it's up on YouTube now

[Roundm]

on a slightly different tack - can anyone explain to me why this thing - which is clearly a road car has centrelock wheels? didn't I read that you need a very long crowbar

that and I'm sure I read you have to replace the hubs every 10,000 miles

what am I missing ?

[porkgts]

boringbeige said:

hey Likesachange.....of course there will be some subconscious aspect of my mind that protects some of my cars, but I try to not be like that. They all did track days in 2016. I took the f40 to scotland for a week where it lived outside and got driven every day. However, I stand by what I said, i really do think my 991.1gts is the best sportscar I own. Mine has the the 20mm dropped suspension and is a 2wd coupe without a sunroof. It had pdk. I have done 14,000 miles in it. Prior to this car I did 10,000 miles in a 991.1 gts that did not have the dropped suspension, had a glass sunroof and was a manual 2wd; that car was not as good, in fact I hated it. I sold it to get my current gts with it's different spec. So there you are,,, I've put it out there: I think my pdk gts is a better sports car than my 997.2gt3rs.

I've had a lot of nice cars too including multiple 911s, 997.2 GT3 and my current 991.1 GTS is my favourite car I've ever had and I can't see me selling it. Mine also has the -20mm which is a must have to me. No interest in the new turbos.

[981C]

likesachange said:

although maybe lacking the low down grunt.

Yeah, 'cause that matters in a sports car that does 0-100mph in 6 seconds.

[anonymous-user]

likesachange said:

Yes the price of these modern 911's are insane.

Buy the base car - that's where the "value" lies. It's not as if they build any slow 911s...

[FN2TypeR]

JM944 said:

Who would pay an extra 1200 Euros for Battleship grey paint. Looks like primer.

I like it, but mine would be orange

Genuinely think these things are getting too fast now, I'm a peasant so I can't afford one, but I would genuinely be looking at a Cayman to see how that stacks up as a more usable/thrashable prospect, the four pot turbo in those these days though, whilst a punchy engine, is not going to be as tasty as the flat six of old, argh!

[Wills2]

I drove 3 different 991.1 GTS at the PEC and they were sublime, the noise was immense, the car's wonderful to drive and to sit in, if only I had the money.

I've only had a quick go in a 991.2 C2S that felt a bit "normal" and less of an event to drive than the 991.1 GTS.