RE: Facelifted Audi RS3 Sportback revealed
Discussion
Been car hunting for a mate, he wants a fast hatch. I took him to look at lots of cars, the RS3 was quite underwhelming, it just felt like his Golf, all be it tarted up a bit. Yes it'll be biblically fast point to point but that doesnt equal fun.
The M140i is currently top of the list now, I agree, it's not in the same 'class' as the RS3/A45 etc but the BMW is still plenty powerful for the road, plus, nearly new we are looking at a good chunk of cash saved.
The M140i is currently top of the list now, I agree, it's not in the same 'class' as the RS3/A45 etc but the BMW is still plenty powerful for the road, plus, nearly new we are looking at a good chunk of cash saved.
Edited by CaptainMorgan on Friday 10th February 22:21
CaptainMorgan said:
Been car hunting for a mate, he wants a fast hatch. I took him to look at lots of cars, the RS3 was quite underwhelming, it just felt like his Golf, all be it tarted up a bit. Yes it'll be biblically fast point to point but that doesnt equal fun.
The M140i is currently top of the list now, I agree, it's not in the same 'class' as the RS3/A45 etc but the BMW is still plenty powerful for the road, plus, nearly new we are looking at a good chunk of cash saved.
Do it, most rounded car I've owned (46 so far). Mperformance exhaust and/or centre silencer delete and it's up there with RS3 soundtrack too!The M140i is currently top of the list now, I agree, it's not in the same 'class' as the RS3/A45 etc but the BMW is still plenty powerful for the road, plus, nearly new we are looking at a good chunk of cash saved.
Edited by CaptainMorgan on Friday 10th February 22:21
QuattroDave said:
Do it, most rounded car I've owned (46 so far). Mperformance exhaust and/or centre silencer delete and it's up there with RS3 soundtrack too!
I think he's pretty set now, after I borrowed my cousins one for a quick spin, it seriously impressed us both. As you say, just a fantastic all rounder, ticks all the boxes for him, the auto was the best I've used too. We might have a hunt for the correct spec but I think it'll be worth it. GranCab said:
Of course all the haters are oversteering driving gods in their plastic fantastic TVRs and Lotuses ... or more likely a knackered Mazda Eunos or some s
tty old hatchback 
It's not about oversteer for me, it's about dynamics and connection to the car.tty old hatchback See the video I linked where there's a massive dead spot earlier sode of centre. How can an 'RS' car be let out like that? Especially a 40k plus one.
Understeer and lack of steering feel are never nice qualities and Audi have always stuck their engines too far forward and don't seem to have tried to work around it.
So whilst you don't expect oversteer everywhere, you want a car that feels sharp and responsive.
Dunno if this has been posted yet, I know they're older models but still the same underpinnings.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2xwecTp91-o
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2xwecTp91-o
CaptainMorgan said:
Dunno if this has been posted yet, I know they're older models but still the same underpinnings.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2xwecTp91-o
The RS3 in the video is the previous generation version.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2xwecTp91-o
ToothbrushMan said:
"pestering 911's"? who writes this juvenile crap? it suggests buyers of RS3s et al get up in the morning with the sole intent of driving for the hell of it and tracking down cars that they know they can beat or want to beat.
Pestered two obliging 911's in my S3 today 
GranCab said:
You were giving us your opinion of the Audi.
I was pointing out that BMWs are far from perfect dynamically.
Yes just my opinion (well, and most people in here and most reviews) that it is a snoozefest albeit with a lovely engine.I was pointing out that BMWs are far from perfect dynamically.
I never said I rated the BMW either. Odd to quote and me then criticise the BMW when I am a defender of neither.
caymanbill said:
Bought an appliance white s3 last month and really enjoying it.. It's a lovely all rounder for me anyway. Please don't hate me.
Without wanting to draw the wraith of the ph driving gods here, how often do you actually get the opportunity to provoke a car into understeer/oversteer on public roads? My S3 feels so planted that I feel I'd need to be doing licence loseing speeds to provoke it into understeer? Never driven an M car so perhaps I'm naive regarding dynamics?
Exactly the type of response I mentioned earlier... we do you think those who favour RWD go around provoking oversteer on public roads? It's not the only way to enjoy a rear driver. It's more than. It's about feel, involvement, feed back... not just sitting there, detached from everything. I get what you're saying re the S3 being planted, my TTS was planted too but jeez it was boring to drive. It never came alive. It had no soul. The point you miss is that for some it's not about sheer speed but how you get there. How the car responds to small inputs, the feel from the steering... certainly not simply speed and getting that back out. At the end of the day, there's no wrong... we like what we like but try to see the otherside, it's not about be a hooligan on the public roads Without wanting to draw the wraith of the ph driving gods here, how often do you actually get the opportunity to provoke a car into understeer/oversteer on public roads? My S3 feels so planted that I feel I'd need to be doing licence loseing speeds to provoke it into understeer? Never driven an M car so perhaps I'm naive regarding dynamics?
Edited by caymanbill on Friday 10th February 17:11
GranCab said:
Of course all the haters are oversteering driving gods in their plastic fantastic TVRs and Lotuses ... or more likely a knackered Mazda Eunos or some stty old hatchback
I have been asking for the definition of driving god for a number of years but to no avail. If you mean that some prefer the feel of rwd, however "slow" that makes them, then you might accidentally be onto something ;-). Line of sight, traffic and licence preservation are always going to be the limiting factors on the road, not traction.tty old hatchback jimmybell said:
The likely release of this put me off the current model ~6-9 months ago, looks like i was right to expect it. Question is - what are the actual differences beyond engine power (suspension/handling/standard spec)?
My neighbor purchased the current model in white, looks dull as hell, looks too similar to the S line A3'sLovely sound though, very annoying blip of throttle on cold starts.
CaptainMorgan said:
Dunno if this has been posted yet, I know they're older models but still the same underpinnings.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2xwecTp91-o
just goes to show how people look for different things, i found the 135i and 235i whilst well setup utterly dull and devoid of any enjoyment to drive, they are playstation cars, the mk1 RS3 was savage and visceral, let down by the poorly setup front end https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2xwecTp91-o
caymanbill said:
Bought an appliance white s3 last month and really enjoying it.. It's a lovely all rounder for me anyway. Please don't hate me.
Without wanting to draw the wraith of the ph driving gods here, how often do you actually get the opportunity to provoke a car into understeer/oversteer on public roads? My S3 feels so planted that I feel I'd need to be doing licence loseing speeds to provoke it into understeer? Never driven an M car so perhaps I'm naive regarding dynamics?
The general public take too much notice of hero journalists writing for evo, car, PH etc RS3 lacks feel, is no good on track. of course its not its a fast road car. If you take it for what its intending to be 'a safe way to get you family to waitrose quickly while making some noise and making Dad smile' then its brilliant. Without wanting to draw the wraith of the ph driving gods here, how often do you actually get the opportunity to provoke a car into understeer/oversteer on public roads? My S3 feels so planted that I feel I'd need to be doing licence loseing speeds to provoke it into understeer? Never driven an M car so perhaps I'm naive regarding dynamics?
Edited by caymanbill on Friday 10th February 17:11
When youve driven car like an Exige. GT3's, etc then everything supposedly great drivers cars M3,M2, M4 etc feel loose and soggy anyway.
Wills2 said:
I'm always very sceptical of these dyno runs showing that BMW are giving people 40-50hp for free, a business that charges 1k for a 20-25hp remap and charges for options like a wounded rhino but suddenly starts giving everyone free power and underrating its cars.
Modern turbo engines self correct for ambient temp and altitude but people stick them on dynos still set up to correct a correcting engine and then use a made up drive train loss number to get a big crank number.
There was a big thread on F80 post regarding the dyno numbers as people were dynoing stock F80s at 420-430hp at the wheels giving almost a zero drive train loss to the quoted crank number which clearly isn't right.
Autobild also did a piece on it comparing uncorrected/corrected numbers on a Porsche turbo and found the power was to spec once they used uncorrected dynos, previously it was over spec.
You might get another 5-10hp but not another 40-50hp.
The problem is that all of these inflated numbers invariably come from chassis dynos, which can basically read whatever you want them to read by changing some of the parameters. Modern turbo engines self correct for ambient temp and altitude but people stick them on dynos still set up to correct a correcting engine and then use a made up drive train loss number to get a big crank number.
There was a big thread on F80 post regarding the dyno numbers as people were dynoing stock F80s at 420-430hp at the wheels giving almost a zero drive train loss to the quoted crank number which clearly isn't right.
Autobild also did a piece on it comparing uncorrected/corrected numbers on a Porsche turbo and found the power was to spec once they used uncorrected dynos, previously it was over spec.
You might get another 5-10hp but not another 40-50hp.
I work for a large car manufacturer, and spent some time in the powertrain development department. As part of this, we'd regularly take the engines of rival manufacturers and put them on our engine dynamometers - directly attaching the dyno to the flywheel.
These dynos were seriously specialised pieces of kit, produced by AVL and cost in the region of £3m each, far, far in excess of anything used by tuning houses.
Not once did I see an engine on these dynos produce anything that varied from the manufacturer's quoted output by more than 3%. It was rare enough to get more than 2% variation to be honest. This included engines that are regularly claimed to be conservatively rated, such as the various VW TDIs, BMW turbos etc.
Put the same engine in a car and put it on a chassis dynos, and it was quite easy to get a dyno printout showing ludicrous power just by not setting the ambient temp correctly etc.
legless said:
Wills2 said:
I'm always very sceptical of these dyno runs showing that BMW are giving people 40-50hp for free, a business that charges 1k for a 20-25hp remap and charges for options like a wounded rhino but suddenly starts giving everyone free power and underrating its cars.
Modern turbo engines self correct for ambient temp and altitude but people stick them on dynos still set up to correct a correcting engine and then use a made up drive train loss number to get a big crank number.
There was a big thread on F80 post regarding the dyno numbers as people were dynoing stock F80s at 420-430hp at the wheels giving almost a zero drive train loss to the quoted crank number which clearly isn't right.
Autobild also did a piece on it comparing uncorrected/corrected numbers on a Porsche turbo and found the power was to spec once they used uncorrected dynos, previously it was over spec.
You might get another 5-10hp but not another 40-50hp.
The problem is that all of these inflated numbers invariably come from chassis dynos, which can basically read whatever you want them to read by changing some of the parameters. Modern turbo engines self correct for ambient temp and altitude but people stick them on dynos still set up to correct a correcting engine and then use a made up drive train loss number to get a big crank number.
There was a big thread on F80 post regarding the dyno numbers as people were dynoing stock F80s at 420-430hp at the wheels giving almost a zero drive train loss to the quoted crank number which clearly isn't right.
Autobild also did a piece on it comparing uncorrected/corrected numbers on a Porsche turbo and found the power was to spec once they used uncorrected dynos, previously it was over spec.
You might get another 5-10hp but not another 40-50hp.
I work for a large car manufacturer, and spent some time in the powertrain development department. As part of this, we'd regularly take the engines of rival manufacturers and put them on our engine dynamometers - directly attaching the dyno to the flywheel.
These dynos were seriously specialised pieces of kit, produced by AVL and cost in the region of £3m each, far, far in excess of anything used by tuning houses.
Not once did I see an engine on these dynos produce anything that varied from the manufacturer's quoted output by more than 3%. It was rare enough to get more than 2% variation to be honest. This included engines that are regularly claimed to be conservatively rated, such as the various VW TDIs, BMW turbos etc.
Put the same engine in a car and put it on a chassis dynos, and it was quite easy to get a dyno printout showing ludicrous power just by not setting the ambient temp correctly etc.
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