Is the new Ford GT already a busted flush?
Discussion
I have hinted at this subject on other threads but wanted to open it out to a wider audience.
The Ford GT has been around in prototype form for about 3 years now. We know it famously won its class at LeMans last year, a great achievement. But Ford have yet to deliver a single customer car and if I am not mistaken customers are still not sure when they will get their cars.
Fords initial allocation of cars was assigned in my opinion to an odd bunch of people, the fact that you owned an original GT40 and a few of the last generation Ford GT’s did not guarantee you a slot, but a YouTube channel might???
Ford recently published lap times were the Ford was recorded only one second faster than a McLaren 675LT over a long lap (2mins 08 secs), a time not verified by anyone else. Hardly ground breaking considering the Mac is a last generation car and the new 720S is being reported as being quicker series production car. Plus a street/track version of the 488 will appear soon, likely to be very quick.
So my question is this. Is the Ford GT too late to the party, is its Ecoboost V6 the wrong engine (not exotic enough) and will it be too expensive at well over a predicted £400K to justify its price even if it is limited edition (saying that Ford have not said how many they will build)?
The Ford GT has been around in prototype form for about 3 years now. We know it famously won its class at LeMans last year, a great achievement. But Ford have yet to deliver a single customer car and if I am not mistaken customers are still not sure when they will get their cars.
Fords initial allocation of cars was assigned in my opinion to an odd bunch of people, the fact that you owned an original GT40 and a few of the last generation Ford GT’s did not guarantee you a slot, but a YouTube channel might???
Ford recently published lap times were the Ford was recorded only one second faster than a McLaren 675LT over a long lap (2mins 08 secs), a time not verified by anyone else. Hardly ground breaking considering the Mac is a last generation car and the new 720S is being reported as being quicker series production car. Plus a street/track version of the 488 will appear soon, likely to be very quick.
So my question is this. Is the Ford GT too late to the party, is its Ecoboost V6 the wrong engine (not exotic enough) and will it be too expensive at well over a predicted £400K to justify its price even if it is limited edition (saying that Ford have not said how many they will build)?
Beauty is in the eye of the beholder - the new GT looks brilliant, purposeful and leagues better than the current 675LT. As for it being only a second quicker..... a second is a huge deal at that kind of power so I don't see the point of it not being a big enough step forward. There is only so fast you can go before you are essentially in a GT3....
Laptimes are irrelevant to anyone but pub bores and race teams at this level of performance.
Same with cost at that end of the market.
I know I wouldn't be impressed with their selection process if I were in the market for one, however.
Point is, I'm not sure how many of these kinds of cars (+£200K, 200mph) are bought by people that have to have the fastest/most expensive/latest car. If I want a car then I want THAT car; not a different one because it's a tenth or two faster round a track and therefore irrelevant on the road or there's another one due in a couple of months with a bit of a facelift (yes Mclaren, I'm looking at you).
Same with cost at that end of the market.
I know I wouldn't be impressed with their selection process if I were in the market for one, however.
Point is, I'm not sure how many of these kinds of cars (+£200K, 200mph) are bought by people that have to have the fastest/most expensive/latest car. If I want a car then I want THAT car; not a different one because it's a tenth or two faster round a track and therefore irrelevant on the road or there's another one due in a couple of months with a bit of a facelift (yes Mclaren, I'm looking at you).
Streetrod said:
So my question is this. Is the Ford GT too late to the party, is its Ecoboost V6 the wrong engine (not exotic enough) and will it be too expensive at well over a predicted £400K to justify its price even if it is limited edition (saying that Ford have not said how many they will build)?
Its was never meant to be a real party-goer,the GT is a GTE-legal prototype designed for their le-mans PR stunt, nothing more, nothing less. Ford doesnt care about selling them, they just put some effort in so the FIA/ACO will allow it as a GTE sportscar rather then a prototype.
They will sell their limited run purely on nostalgia/LM-hype, its not that hard to sell 250 cars at 400K in todays world anymore.
It was never meant to go head to head with the ferraris and mclaren in terms of sales, just relive their le-mans history to polish up the racing heritage, and they did that in probably the dirtiest way they could get away with.
Vitorio said:
the GT is a GTE-legal prototype designed for their le-mans PR stunt, nothing more, nothing less. Ford doesnt care about selling them, they just put some effort in so the FIA/ACO will allow it as a GTE sportscar rather then a prototype.
This. The other manufacturers all had to agree to Ford being allowed to race without a road car for sale. Ferrari and Porsche were pretty upset when Ford "suddenly" found some pace after the Balance of Performance adjustments before Le Mans.99dndd said:
Vitorio said:
the GT is a GTE-legal prototype designed for their le-mans PR stunt, nothing more, nothing less. Ford doesnt care about selling them, they just put some effort in so the FIA/ACO will allow it as a GTE sportscar rather then a prototype.
This. The other manufacturers all had to agree to Ford being allowed to race without a road car for sale. Ferrari and Porsche were pretty upset when Ford "suddenly" found some pace after the Balance of Performance adjustments before Le Mans.Technically, you have a point - most people can see the point about Ford GT vs other Supercars at the end of their production.
I disagree that it's ugly - I think it's pretty extreme and quite gorgeous from some angles, but that's the point of a supercar - a bit crazy and cool.
Finally, these cars will be driven around predominantly by collectors and they're an asset & investment. Nobody really cares much past that point.
I disagree that it's ugly - I think it's pretty extreme and quite gorgeous from some angles, but that's the point of a supercar - a bit crazy and cool.
Finally, these cars will be driven around predominantly by collectors and they're an asset & investment. Nobody really cares much past that point.
Yeah, but....rubbin' is racin' so they'll have to suck it up.
I was at Le Mans last year and it sounded rubbish but looked and went very well. I have no doubt that a race and road version were planned from the beginning.
As for them being allocated to people with high public profiles and YT channels well, that's just the way that the world is. Ford wants lots of spotty Neds to watch people like that ginger plum drive them and think that by going and signing up to finance on a Fiesta Red they're getting a slice of that race winning pedigree.
I was at Le Mans last year and it sounded rubbish but looked and went very well. I have no doubt that a race and road version were planned from the beginning.
As for them being allocated to people with high public profiles and YT channels well, that's just the way that the world is. Ford wants lots of spotty Neds to watch people like that ginger plum drive them and think that by going and signing up to finance on a Fiesta Red they're getting a slice of that race winning pedigree.
tuffer said:
You missed out the most important point, it looks utterly crap.
Ah but...
You were saying?
But I think it's utterly stupid how you must be "allowed" to buy one. Lexus LF-A I can understand, at least Toyota's reasoning was sound, they wanted to initially only sell to people who would agree to actually using the car instead of stashing it in a garage, but Ford? come come on...
Wrong engine
and by the time it hits the road it'll be slower than it's competition
I understand how they chose the buyers, it's up the Ford.....
and I understand how people get all moist about such a dramatic looking thing. But drama does not necessarily equal either attractive all beautiful.
If it's beautiful in your eyes, you have wrong eyes.
Angry Birds pig:
Angry Bird:
It's like Ford started with all the skill and best intentions at the front, hints and nods to the original and then had suffered a mild seizure whilst doing the roof and fell over a collection of rulers and LSD.
Wide and low is good
But not when it's knifed and attacked at the rear.
I'm no massive fan of the 720S but it's treatment of design vs aero is much much better IMO.
and by the time it hits the road it'll be slower than it's competition
I understand how they chose the buyers, it's up the Ford.....
and I understand how people get all moist about such a dramatic looking thing. But drama does not necessarily equal either attractive all beautiful.
If it's beautiful in your eyes, you have wrong eyes.
Angry Birds pig:
Angry Bird:
It's like Ford started with all the skill and best intentions at the front, hints and nods to the original and then had suffered a mild seizure whilst doing the roof and fell over a collection of rulers and LSD.
Wide and low is good
But not when it's knifed and attacked at the rear.
I'm no massive fan of the 720S but it's treatment of design vs aero is much much better IMO.
Hitch said:
Yeah, but....rubbin' is racin' so they'll have to suck it up.
I was at Le Mans last year and it sounded rubbish but looked and went very well. I have no doubt that a race and road version were planned from the beginning.
If they hadnt put up a convincing effort for a road version, there is no way the FIA/ACO/other teams would allow them to race despite not having the mandatory 250 produced road cars. And they will need to at least keep playing along for a while (and actually sell some cars), or they will reap enough bad-will to never get anything done in the next decade.I was at Le Mans last year and it sounded rubbish but looked and went very well. I have no doubt that a race and road version were planned from the beginning.
Personally i severely dislike their trickery, the badgering other teams on technicalities during the race (trying to force the 488 into the pit for a trivial repair in the last hour to secure a full podium)
Sure, its a competition, but gaming the class rules (building a prototype that is just between the lines), the BOP, and then whinging to the stewards to the max to pester competition hardly fits the old spirit of gentlemans racing in the sportscar world
And sportsmanship aside, its been argued that it might lead to an arms race between manufacturers in prototype-izing their entries (look at the mid engined 911 this year), leading to spiraling costs and eventually a GT1 like death of the class
Because no-one in motor racing ever bent the rules to win a race. Ever.
Especially Ferrari. And definetly not Toyota either. Cough.
My favourite is Smokey Yunick avoiding the fix size fuel tank size regulation by having an 11 foot long, 5 gallon capacity fuel line. And a basketball in the fuel tank that could be inflated/deflated to suit.
Especially Ferrari. And definetly not Toyota either. Cough.
My favourite is Smokey Yunick avoiding the fix size fuel tank size regulation by having an 11 foot long, 5 gallon capacity fuel line. And a basketball in the fuel tank that could be inflated/deflated to suit.
Vitorio said:
If they hadnt put up a convincing effort for a road version, there is no way the FIA/ACO/other teams would allow them to race despite not having the mandatory 250 produced road cars. And they will need to at least keep playing along for a while (and actually sell some cars), or they will reap enough bad-will to never get anything done in the next decade.
Personally i severely dislike their trickery, the badgering other teams on technicalities during the race (trying to force the 488 into the pit for a trivial repair in the last hour to secure a full podium)
Sure, its a competition, but gaming the class rules (building a prototype that is just between the lines), the BOP, and then whinging to the stewards to the max to pester competition hardly fits the old spirit of gentlemans racing in the sportscar world
And sportsmanship aside, its been argued that it might lead to an arms race between manufacturers in prototype-izing their entries (look at the mid engined 911 this year), leading to spiraling costs and eventually a GT1 like death of the class
This entirely. A very cynical project by FoMoCo to grab some motorsport headlines. They wanted some of the spotlight on the WEC these days, and a chance to remind everyone how great the gt 40 was. Competing in the top flight LMP1 which would mean spending a lot of money with no guarenteed return. Their only gt contender, the mustang, would have needed a lot of work and commitment to turn into a real competitor for ferrari, porsche and aston martin, again, with no guarnteed return. So circumvent the rules and build a race car that can win the gt catgory easily enough while 'playing' at building some road going versions, then go and manafacture a win in the 60th year since the most famous gt40 win.Personally i severely dislike their trickery, the badgering other teams on technicalities during the race (trying to force the 488 into the pit for a trivial repair in the last hour to secure a full podium)
Sure, its a competition, but gaming the class rules (building a prototype that is just between the lines), the BOP, and then whinging to the stewards to the max to pester competition hardly fits the old spirit of gentlemans racing in the sportscar world
And sportsmanship aside, its been argued that it might lead to an arms race between manufacturers in prototype-izing their entries (look at the mid engined 911 this year), leading to spiraling costs and eventually a GT1 like death of the class
I seriuosly doubt anyone will be looking back in their 2016 lemans 'win' with anywhere near the same amount of affection as their 1966 one. In all, the whole project may actually have been detrimental to their motorsport aspirations.
I will be surprised if they build a quarter of those road cars. They'll string the fia and aco along for another couple of seasons, then announce they're pulling out due to some imagined slight and stopping any further road car production.
As stated above, the shame of it is they have now started an arms race in what was a fantastic and reasonably well balanced series. Don't get me started on mid-engined 911s!
I actually question the point of Ford building such a performance "halo" model from a marketing perspective. They're not competing in the top flight of any form of Motorsport except WRC and it would make sense if Ford were using the car to halo a range of upper range performance cars but they don't make any.
Ferrari, Corvette, Porsche and Aston Martin are all in the performance car business. I don't understand what the Ford GT brings ot the party when the top end performance cars they make are Mustangs and the RS Focus. That's a long drop down the price line to have any effect; nobody is going to buy a RS Focus because of the GT.
I can understand all the stuff anbout celebrating the GT40's 50th anniversary, but as has already been alluded here, Ford's win at Le Mans was a sour affair which has discoloured thier reputation within the industry and motor racing fans. In particular the disgraceful protesting of the Ferrari which "ruined" thier desired 1-2-3 podium outcome was just shameful.
Ferrari, Corvette, Porsche and Aston Martin are all in the performance car business. I don't understand what the Ford GT brings ot the party when the top end performance cars they make are Mustangs and the RS Focus. That's a long drop down the price line to have any effect; nobody is going to buy a RS Focus because of the GT.
I can understand all the stuff anbout celebrating the GT40's 50th anniversary, but as has already been alluded here, Ford's win at Le Mans was a sour affair which has discoloured thier reputation within the industry and motor racing fans. In particular the disgraceful protesting of the Ferrari which "ruined" thier desired 1-2-3 podium outcome was just shameful.
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