Cars you are too young to ever love/understand
Discussion
Very interesting this ..... I'm not quite middle aged at 37 (I hope ! ) but far from young and I'm totally in the middle on this .... Surely you must appreciate all for what they are ? ... I've had the pleasure of driving a vast array of cars from various era's .... 70's 80's and 90's stuff right up to present day ... Hot hatches , sports cars , super cars and normal stuff
You must appreciate them for what they are , what they were when new and how they make you feel ..... You can't compare new to old it's all evolution
If you want re-live memory's and feelings there is nothing better than stepping in to something from your youth ..... In 25 years time you youngsters can't say you wouldn't want to jump in to an A45 or Rs3 or Nissan GT-R to feel how real driving felt to you ...even though the stuff around you at that point will lose it every which way
Wouldn't take much over my early 90's 911 which is classed as a classic .... For me I like the fact old stuff wants to kill me
... A trait missing from must normal sports cars nowadays !!
You must appreciate them for what they are , what they were when new and how they make you feel ..... You can't compare new to old it's all evolution
If you want re-live memory's and feelings there is nothing better than stepping in to something from your youth ..... In 25 years time you youngsters can't say you wouldn't want to jump in to an A45 or Rs3 or Nissan GT-R to feel how real driving felt to you ...even though the stuff around you at that point will lose it every which way
Wouldn't take much over my early 90's 911 which is classed as a classic .... For me I like the fact old stuff wants to kill me
... A trait missing from must normal sports cars nowadays !! I had a Triumph Spitfire 1500 for about 7 years. Considering it only cost me about 3k to buy and do up, it was the most fun per £ car I have ever had (and I own a Chimaera).
It felt like you were doing 100mph when you were doing 60, you felt every undulation in the road. You learned to drive avoiding manhole covers (because that used to rattle the car a bit) and also not to brake going into corners. The steering lock was brilliant as well, no need for 3 point turns!
My first car though was a Manta 1.8, that had mid range tyres on it, but at very low speed I could hang the tail out around roundabouts, unfortunately it let go once when I wasn't expecting it to and I collected some railings outside Oldchurch Hospital in Romford!
You could have a lot of fun in older cars at a lot lower speeds. You do feel more isolated from what is happening outside in modern cars now. I would still like a GT6 though
It felt like you were doing 100mph when you were doing 60, you felt every undulation in the road. You learned to drive avoiding manhole covers (because that used to rattle the car a bit) and also not to brake going into corners. The steering lock was brilliant as well, no need for 3 point turns!
My first car though was a Manta 1.8, that had mid range tyres on it, but at very low speed I could hang the tail out around roundabouts, unfortunately it let go once when I wasn't expecting it to and I collected some railings outside Oldchurch Hospital in Romford!
You could have a lot of fun in older cars at a lot lower speeds. You do feel more isolated from what is happening outside in modern cars now. I would still like a GT6 though
I'll apologise in advance for this... I'm 65 next month which probably makes me a right old basterd that's well past it and knows bugger all about cars in today's world...
The following is a bunch of cars from the '60's that were current when I were a lad.. I've owned a few of these, my first car at 17 years of age (in 1969) was a Lotus 7, and my second when sprog came along was a 1275 Morris Cooper S
Regardless of how young you are, if you want to be a true petrolhead, you have to understand what these were/are all about....
The following is a bunch of cars from the '60's that were current when I were a lad.. I've owned a few of these, my first car at 17 years of age (in 1969) was a Lotus 7, and my second when sprog came along was a 1275 Morris Cooper S
Regardless of how young you are, if you want to be a true petrolhead, you have to understand what these were/are all about....
The E-type drove very well for the time. it was half the price of a Ferrari and dates back to 1961, so it won't drive like a modern. surprise. But it evokes a passion in those that lived close to its era. Fair enough. That's human.
A lot of crap in the past for sure. BL was criminal.
So let's focus on quality. A fun drive for a Sunday morning: 60 yrs old Elan (set up and maintained of course) or an Audi TT?
i'd rather drive the best focused car from yesteryear than today's hot hatches for a fun drive. But the best modern is still better. Lotus, Caterham, BAC, Zenos, McClaren, 911R (so i believe...) et al are just better.
A lot of crap in the past for sure. BL was criminal.
So let's focus on quality. A fun drive for a Sunday morning: 60 yrs old Elan (set up and maintained of course) or an Audi TT?
i'd rather drive the best focused car from yesteryear than today's hot hatches for a fun drive. But the best modern is still better. Lotus, Caterham, BAC, Zenos, McClaren, 911R (so i believe...) et al are just better.
SystemParanoia said:
Hugo a Gogo said:
a Dyane, basically a further-developed 2CV
everyday's a school day dont think i'd like to drive one though.. they are not quick
What I was getting at when I started the thread... I get most classics. I really do. I find the comment about not getting TVRs especially bizarre in fact, one owned by my extended family owns is about to come back from South Africa where it's been on a bit of a tour, doing what it was supposed to do - race.
But I think there's some classics where you just 'had to be there' to understand the appeal and they're very hard to understand if you weren't there. At least for me.
Escort in that category (actually I had MK 4 in mind when I was typing this, but hey, I'll apply it to the rest of them too ) as is say a Morris Marina. Don't get it.
But I think there's some classics where you just 'had to be there' to understand the appeal and they're very hard to understand if you weren't there. At least for me.
Escort in that category (actually I had MK 4 in mind when I was typing this, but hey, I'll apply it to the rest of them too
) as is say a Morris Marina. Don't get it.
So I'm 27.
For me, I don't get the new VW van thing. The old one, I understand. There's a culture behind it, with loads of memories etc. Not for me, but fair enough.. The newer ones just look like a workman's van. I don't get it.
The Porsche 911 thing I get though. Looks are not what matters here, and most people won't 'get' it until they drive one properly. It's all about that response, feel and precision.
I also get the turbo vs N/A thing.
Maybe I'm at a unfair advantage vs most my age, but owning a N/A 3.4 flat 6 911, 300bhp, vs the courtesy car I sometimes get, which is a 300bhp turbo flat 4 boxster, I can honestly say that the lag on even a modern turbo takes the fun and smoothness out of the response. Yes it may turn in a fraction better and change direction marginally better than a 20 yr old 911, but the 911 doesn't loose it's balance mid corner, or wheelspin/swerve in the wet as the turbo kicks in a little on an even throttle. For people like me, its about the predictability of the car meaning that you can push more and enjoy the driving experience that's important.
That's not to say I don't get the turbo thing of nothing, nothing, whoosh, but that's only fun on a straight road, and I'd rather keep my licence by taking corners on a B road at 60 thanks
In addition to that, the final drive on the newer car is just to long. The shorter final drive on the older 911, makes the acceleration feel more immediate.
Combine that with the dynamic feel from weight through corners, and the ever increasing weight of modern cars, and I can see why people look back to older cars fondly for a more engaging experience.
Probably why I also don't get things like Bentley continentals, high power SUVs, the Nissan GTR, and the Bugatti Veyron. Whaft along in luxury in a merc etc. fine, but if you really want to go fast, buy a sports car!
Edit to add: Also don't get the new Hot hatch era. I use to work at Honda, and had the privilege of moving Civic Type-R's around the plant for a day. Got back in my 911 at the end of the day, and the seat was more comfortable. For me, that said everything I needed to know.
For me, I don't get the new VW van thing. The old one, I understand. There's a culture behind it, with loads of memories etc. Not for me, but fair enough.. The newer ones just look like a workman's van. I don't get it.
The Porsche 911 thing I get though. Looks are not what matters here, and most people won't 'get' it until they drive one properly. It's all about that response, feel and precision.
I also get the turbo vs N/A thing.
Maybe I'm at a unfair advantage vs most my age, but owning a N/A 3.4 flat 6 911, 300bhp, vs the courtesy car I sometimes get, which is a 300bhp turbo flat 4 boxster, I can honestly say that the lag on even a modern turbo takes the fun and smoothness out of the response. Yes it may turn in a fraction better and change direction marginally better than a 20 yr old 911, but the 911 doesn't loose it's balance mid corner, or wheelspin/swerve in the wet as the turbo kicks in a little on an even throttle. For people like me, its about the predictability of the car meaning that you can push more and enjoy the driving experience that's important.
That's not to say I don't get the turbo thing of nothing, nothing, whoosh, but that's only fun on a straight road, and I'd rather keep my licence by taking corners on a B road at 60 thanks
In addition to that, the final drive on the newer car is just to long. The shorter final drive on the older 911, makes the acceleration feel more immediate.
Combine that with the dynamic feel from weight through corners, and the ever increasing weight of modern cars, and I can see why people look back to older cars fondly for a more engaging experience.
Probably why I also don't get things like Bentley continentals, high power SUVs, the Nissan GTR, and the Bugatti Veyron. Whaft along in luxury in a merc etc. fine, but if you really want to go fast, buy a sports car!
Edit to add: Also don't get the new Hot hatch era. I use to work at Honda, and had the privilege of moving Civic Type-R's around the plant for a day. Got back in my 911 at the end of the day, and the seat was more comfortable. For me, that said everything I needed to know.
Edited by 996_C2 on Tuesday 14th February 22:58
996_C2 said:
So I'm 27.
For me, I don't get the new VW van thing. The old one, I understand. There's a culture behind it, with loads of memories etc. Not for me, but fair enough.. The newer ones just look like a workman's van. I don't get it.
The Porsche 911 thing I get though. Looks are not what matters here, and most people won't 'get' it until they drive one properly. It's all about that response, feel and precision.
I also get the turbo vs N/A thing.
Maybe I'm at a unfair advantage vs most my age, but owning a N/A 3.4 flat 6 911, 300bhp, vs the courtesy car I sometimes get, which is a 300bhp turbo flat 4 boxster, I can honestly say that the lag on even a modern turbo takes the fun and smoothness out of the response. Yes it may turn in a fraction better and change direction marginally better than a 20 yr old 911, but the 911 doesn't loose it's balance mid corner, or wheelspin/swerve in the wet as the turbo kicks in a little on an even throttle. For people like me, its about the predictability of the car meaning that you can push more and enjoy the driving experience that's important.
That's not to say I don't get the turbo thing of nothing, nothing, whoosh, but that's only fun on a straight road, and I'd rather keep my licence by taking corners on a B road at 60 thanks
In addition to that, the final drive on the newer car is just to long. The shorter final drive on the older 911, makes the acceleration feel more immediate.
Combine that with the dynamic feel from weight through corners, and the ever increasing weight of modern cars, and I can see why people look back to older cars fondly for a more engaging experience.
Probably why I also don't get things like Bentley continentals, high power SUVs, the Nissan GTR, and the Bugatti Veyron. Whaft along in luxury in a merc etc. fine, but if you really want to go fast, buy a sports car!
Edit to add: Also don't get the new Hot hatch era. I use to work at Honda, and had the privilege of moving Civic Type-R's around the plant for a day. Got back in my 911 at the end of the day, and the seat was more comfortable. For me, that said everything I needed to know.
great post.For me, I don't get the new VW van thing. The old one, I understand. There's a culture behind it, with loads of memories etc. Not for me, but fair enough.. The newer ones just look like a workman's van. I don't get it.
The Porsche 911 thing I get though. Looks are not what matters here, and most people won't 'get' it until they drive one properly. It's all about that response, feel and precision.
I also get the turbo vs N/A thing.
Maybe I'm at a unfair advantage vs most my age, but owning a N/A 3.4 flat 6 911, 300bhp, vs the courtesy car I sometimes get, which is a 300bhp turbo flat 4 boxster, I can honestly say that the lag on even a modern turbo takes the fun and smoothness out of the response. Yes it may turn in a fraction better and change direction marginally better than a 20 yr old 911, but the 911 doesn't loose it's balance mid corner, or wheelspin/swerve in the wet as the turbo kicks in a little on an even throttle. For people like me, its about the predictability of the car meaning that you can push more and enjoy the driving experience that's important.
That's not to say I don't get the turbo thing of nothing, nothing, whoosh, but that's only fun on a straight road, and I'd rather keep my licence by taking corners on a B road at 60 thanks
In addition to that, the final drive on the newer car is just to long. The shorter final drive on the older 911, makes the acceleration feel more immediate.
Combine that with the dynamic feel from weight through corners, and the ever increasing weight of modern cars, and I can see why people look back to older cars fondly for a more engaging experience.
Probably why I also don't get things like Bentley continentals, high power SUVs, the Nissan GTR, and the Bugatti Veyron. Whaft along in luxury in a merc etc. fine, but if you really want to go fast, buy a sports car!
Edit to add: Also don't get the new Hot hatch era. I use to work at Honda, and had the privilege of moving Civic Type-R's around the plant for a day. Got back in my 911 at the end of the day, and the seat was more comfortable. For me, that said everything I needed to know.
Edited by 996_C2 on Tuesday 14th February 22:58
one small point. While all my own cars are light, after driving a Bentley Turbo R i did look at the classifieds. in context they are worthy.
Ruffy94 said:
No so much any cars (as surprisingly im one of those rare early twenty somethings that really appreciates classic cars). But more an opinion that people seem to have about them.....
Non power assisted steering.
Ive driven a few cars without it now (one being the mk1 mx5 I previously owned) and I cannot understand the amount of praise it receives. Yes fair enough you get a lot of feedback and its great the 1 dry summer day you can press on, but 95% of the time (on a daily basis) id rather be driving something else that has PAS.
If I really had to pick a classic for this thread it would probably be the Land Rover Defender, yes an important car but I struggle to see what you get out of having a S1 Land Rover in the garage as a weekend car, terrible on road and I doubt many are willing to risk them off it now
Hmm, interesting one that. I am hardly a gym bunny, but I never had any issue driving cars without PAS. I wouldn't say I didn't notice, but I certainly did not find it a chore or requiring particular effort. What's the reason for your preference? Is it purely having to use a bit more muscle to turn the wheel? Non power assisted steering.
Ive driven a few cars without it now (one being the mk1 mx5 I previously owned) and I cannot understand the amount of praise it receives. Yes fair enough you get a lot of feedback and its great the 1 dry summer day you can press on, but 95% of the time (on a daily basis) id rather be driving something else that has PAS.
If I really had to pick a classic for this thread it would probably be the Land Rover Defender, yes an important car but I struggle to see what you get out of having a S1 Land Rover in the garage as a weekend car, terrible on road and I doubt many are willing to risk them off it now
GravelBen said:
I don't understand why people think the E-type is a pretty car, other than being a 'classic' it looks like a misproportioned bar of soap.
The low drag version improves the situation I guess, at least it doesn't have a giant bulbous canopy plonked on the back of it.
Have to agree with both those paragraphs (perhaps odd'ly given my username, or not as the case may be) The low drag version improves the situation I guess, at least it doesn't have a giant bulbous canopy plonked on the back of it.
Generally though, love old classics (within reason, even when new the Austin Agro and Princess were dogs) through to most all "enthusiast cars" of the 90's and 00's ....
I get the push for modern EV's and Hybrid's but I guess I am the reverse of the title on this thread and am too old to love them. the BMW i8, although great engineering, leaves me stone cold!
Although people talk about youngsters not appreciating anything without an LCD and an on/off switch. What strikes me is that the notion of a car being interesting simply because it's old is relatively recent. I remember a letter in a car magazine in the early 80s talking about the fact that any old car seemed to be regarded as a classic and complaining 'at this rate, old Cortinas will be regarded as classic cars'. Until the late 70s anything that wasn't really exotic like an XK120 or a pre war Bentley was just a second hand car for those who didn't want to pay the extra for something newer.
ChilliWhizz said:
Regardless of how young you are, if you want to be a true petrolhead, you have to understand what these were/are all about....
That list is rather UK centric though, id call myself a petrolhead, but i cant even name all of those.- snip*
I very much get the appeal of the mini, DB5, e-type etc... but i dont know every single 60s small british roadster (nor would i be charmed by them by default)
If we're doing a "you have to get this to be PH" list, id argue something like this belongs on there as well:
The styling might be appeal to everyone, nor might the 4 door fastback bodyshape, but drive one and youll understand.
I'm too young to want anything much older than the late 1950s: I have no desire to own that swoopy Bugatti Atlantic, for example, or any of those old 1930s and 40s' "styling exercises" from coachbuilders. Just no interest. Even if it is worth a million pounds. I might - on a drunken night at home with ebay - make an exception for a Bentley Blower in a sort of faux nostalgic grasp at a Chitty Chitty Bang Bang machine to amuse my children, but I doubt that I'd actually be coordinated enough to drive the thing. Plus I doubt my tailor would know what the **** I was talking about if I told him that I wanted a matching waistcoat.
My interest in the classics goes as far as watching the beautiful films on Petrolicious, but so far, I've managed quite happily not to own a classic of any sort, even if I've managed to own cars for 10 years or more. And anyway, I don't have the room. It's the mid to late noughties for me: quick enough to keep up, not so old that you have to have parts fabricated.
My interest in the classics goes as far as watching the beautiful films on Petrolicious, but so far, I've managed quite happily not to own a classic of any sort, even if I've managed to own cars for 10 years or more. And anyway, I don't have the room. It's the mid to late noughties for me: quick enough to keep up, not so old that you have to have parts fabricated.
I think many are missing the point.
You need to see these cars in context
Example
E type 1961 yes 1961 we didn't even know who the Beatles were and WHAM the e type arrives.
Enzo Ferrari calls it 'the most beautiful car ever made' and it costs a third of one of his. Post war Britain rationing only ended 3 years before , we were heading into a new age, the real Cool Britannia. Carnaby street the mini etc and the e type. It was big big news,it even caused speed limits to be imposed on our newly built motorways.
Example
The MGB
The original MX5 a sports car available to the masses
Example
The ford escort, a decent family car for the time, ford backed motorsport heavily ' win on Sunday sell on Monday '
Example
Beetle/mini/2cv
Cheap cheap, it's how many many families got on the road.
So you may not like them but it doesn't alter the fact that most of them were relevant, and for that they deserve respect.
Put them into context don't judge them using a new car criteria.
You need to see these cars in context
Example
E type 1961 yes 1961 we didn't even know who the Beatles were and WHAM the e type arrives.
Enzo Ferrari calls it 'the most beautiful car ever made' and it costs a third of one of his. Post war Britain rationing only ended 3 years before , we were heading into a new age, the real Cool Britannia. Carnaby street the mini etc and the e type. It was big big news,it even caused speed limits to be imposed on our newly built motorways.
Example
The MGB
The original MX5 a sports car available to the masses
Example
The ford escort, a decent family car for the time, ford backed motorsport heavily ' win on Sunday sell on Monday '
Example
Beetle/mini/2cv
Cheap cheap, it's how many many families got on the road.
So you may not like them but it doesn't alter the fact that most of them were relevant, and for that they deserve respect.
Put them into context don't judge them using a new car criteria.
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