Why the UK obsession with "German" cars?
Discussion
It's something that often comes up in other threads but it seems that every man and his dog wants a new VW/Audi/BMW/Mercedes when it's widely documented that "German" reliability and build quality are not what they're cracked up to be and the service departments at those dealerships seem uninterested in fixing those problems.
Growing up in the 80s/90s, UK roads were dominated by Fords, Vauxhalls and Rovers and then I remember Citroen/Peugeot/Renault becoming very popular in the late 90s. I guess the German invasion began with the introduction of the "cheaper" models (A3/A-Class/1-Series)?
Most other European countries seem to be fairly loyal to their domestic brands but in other continents such as North America/Australasia, mainstream car sales seem to be dominated by the likes of Toyota, Honda, Mazda, Hyundai and Kia. Brands that offer good reliability and better warranty, value for money and service. For sure, German vehicles still have a following but mainly at the higher end and there tend to be less engine/trim options, so even the "base" model has decent power and leather seats for example, so maybe the price differential is higher?
To a certain extent, it's a self-fulfilling prophecy. Non-German brands don't tend to market luxury products in the UK because people don't buy them, so if you need a practical daily with some power and luxury at not too outlandish a price, the choice is dominated by "German" vehicles. I don't tend to spend over 20k on cars but if I did, I would certainly be looking at stuff like Audi RS3s/TT RSs, BMW M3s/M4s, AMG Mercs and Porsche Boxsters/Caymans.
But that doesn't explain all the low spec and modestly-engined Audis/BMWs/Mercedes out there. I haven't bought a brand new car for ages, so maybe I am missing something but why would I want a less reliable, less well-specced, less powerful and less well-warranted car and receive crap service for the privilige when all the recent Fords, Mazda, Kias and Hyundais that I have driven have been so good.
So why do the UK's buying habits differ so much from the rest of the world?
Growing up in the 80s/90s, UK roads were dominated by Fords, Vauxhalls and Rovers and then I remember Citroen/Peugeot/Renault becoming very popular in the late 90s. I guess the German invasion began with the introduction of the "cheaper" models (A3/A-Class/1-Series)?
Most other European countries seem to be fairly loyal to their domestic brands but in other continents such as North America/Australasia, mainstream car sales seem to be dominated by the likes of Toyota, Honda, Mazda, Hyundai and Kia. Brands that offer good reliability and better warranty, value for money and service. For sure, German vehicles still have a following but mainly at the higher end and there tend to be less engine/trim options, so even the "base" model has decent power and leather seats for example, so maybe the price differential is higher?
To a certain extent, it's a self-fulfilling prophecy. Non-German brands don't tend to market luxury products in the UK because people don't buy them, so if you need a practical daily with some power and luxury at not too outlandish a price, the choice is dominated by "German" vehicles. I don't tend to spend over 20k on cars but if I did, I would certainly be looking at stuff like Audi RS3s/TT RSs, BMW M3s/M4s, AMG Mercs and Porsche Boxsters/Caymans.
But that doesn't explain all the low spec and modestly-engined Audis/BMWs/Mercedes out there. I haven't bought a brand new car for ages, so maybe I am missing something but why would I want a less reliable, less well-specced, less powerful and less well-warranted car and receive crap service for the privilige when all the recent Fords, Mazda, Kias and Hyundais that I have driven have been so good.
So why do the UK's buying habits differ so much from the rest of the world?
I think it's down to a perception of quality and that you've somehow 'made it' if you've got a car from Merc/BMW/Audi. I also think a lot of it is down to keeping up with neighbours and having a 'better' car than the next guy.
I honestly think if most people had to choose between a top spec Mondeo/Mazda 6 or a base spec German model a lot would go for the latter regardless of what the former offered purely to have the badge.
Having owned a few, admittedly aged, BMWs myself I have to say I wouldn't be in a huge rush back there, other manufacturers offer so much for less money these days it's hard to overlook them and in my experience if you want rock solid reliability Japanese is best.
I honestly think if most people had to choose between a top spec Mondeo/Mazda 6 or a base spec German model a lot would go for the latter regardless of what the former offered purely to have the badge.
Having owned a few, admittedly aged, BMWs myself I have to say I wouldn't be in a huge rush back there, other manufacturers offer so much for less money these days it's hard to overlook them and in my experience if you want rock solid reliability Japanese is best.
finishing touch said:
But, but, but, we don't make any cars; well, apart from the one I made in my shed.
What big estate could I buy (for a works car) that will tow 2.1 tonnes and fit a 2 metre sheet in the back if I didn't have my old Merc ????
I don't know. Some kind of SUV/pickup (possibly Japanese)? Volvo? Large MPV? Would a Mondeo/Insignia Estate be "man" enough? Rover 75 Tourer/MG ZT-T? Not really knocking your choice. I had an old Merc C250TD estate and it was a nice old thing but very rusty and the build quality was pretty flaky. I just needed a decent-sized, cheap estate fairly quickly and the C-Class happened to be available and the right price.What big estate could I buy (for a works car) that will tow 2.1 tonnes and fit a 2 metre sheet in the back if I didn't have my old Merc ????
It was more of an observation based on new car buying habits.
finishing touch said:
But, but, but, we don't make any cars; well, apart from the one I made in my shed.
What big estate could I buy (for a works car) that will tow 2.1 tonnes and fit a 2 metre sheet in the back if I didn't have my old Merc ????
A Volvo V70?What big estate could I buy (for a works car) that will tow 2.1 tonnes and fit a 2 metre sheet in the back if I didn't have my old Merc ????
Edit: Dacwagen Duster, Defender...
Anyway there was a Full spec Skoda vs poverty spec A4 thread like a week ago. I'd go for the Skoda, but was not sure if the O/P was trolling or serious
Edited by exelero on Thursday 16th February 05:26
Biggest selling cars in the UK last year?
Ford Fiesta
Vauxhall Corsa
Ford Focus
VW Golf
Nissan Qashqai
Vauxhall Astra
VW Polo
MINI
Merc C-Class
Audi A3
Us Brits bought almost twice as many Fiestas as we did the nearest German, the Golf.
Everywhere I look in my area German cars aren't the most popular, it's Fords, Vauxhalls and lots of Nissans.
I suspect fleet buyers and company car owners are responsible for a big chunk of German models on the road.
Ford Fiesta
Vauxhall Corsa
Ford Focus
VW Golf
Nissan Qashqai
Vauxhall Astra
VW Polo
MINI
Merc C-Class
Audi A3
Us Brits bought almost twice as many Fiestas as we did the nearest German, the Golf.
Everywhere I look in my area German cars aren't the most popular, it's Fords, Vauxhalls and lots of Nissans.
I suspect fleet buyers and company car owners are responsible for a big chunk of German models on the road.
Dash plastics and interiors in general
Marketing
Trading on an aged reputation for reliability and quality
I was once driving a sales girl (I say girl, married mum of two so grown up) to a customer meeting. We got to talking about her new car and she came out with this gem:-
'I bought the BMW after trading in my 3 year old Audi. It's not really about keeping cars or making them last, I consider a new premium car every 3 years as important, to show people how well I'm doing'
Both were entry level diesels with minimum
Kit. Probably for the cheapest monthly payment
Marketing
Trading on an aged reputation for reliability and quality
I was once driving a sales girl (I say girl, married mum of two so grown up) to a customer meeting. We got to talking about her new car and she came out with this gem:-
'I bought the BMW after trading in my 3 year old Audi. It's not really about keeping cars or making them last, I consider a new premium car every 3 years as important, to show people how well I'm doing'
Both were entry level diesels with minimum
Kit. Probably for the cheapest monthly payment
People who work in sales or marketing are generally rather brand and image obsessed in my experience. Not all of them, but most.
I think you need to go back a bit further, the German makes were always seen as a cut above in terms of quality in the 70's and 80's and simply were too expensive for the mass market (VW excluded, although they carried a premium). That's a generational thing, you don't get away from all those messages drilled into you about German cars being better built and aspirational (barf!) easily if you were growing up then, or have parents who were and passed on their car wisdom.
They've moved into cheaper market areas while still keeping their perceived quality, although there's quite a debate as to whether the actual quality is any better than the equivalent Ford.
I think you need to go back a bit further, the German makes were always seen as a cut above in terms of quality in the 70's and 80's and simply were too expensive for the mass market (VW excluded, although they carried a premium). That's a generational thing, you don't get away from all those messages drilled into you about German cars being better built and aspirational (barf!) easily if you were growing up then, or have parents who were and passed on their car wisdom.
They've moved into cheaper market areas while still keeping their perceived quality, although there's quite a debate as to whether the actual quality is any better than the equivalent Ford.
exelero said:
finishing touch said:
But, but, but, we don't make any cars; well, apart from the one I made in my shed.
What big estate could I buy (for a works car) that will tow 2.1 tonnes and fit a 2 metre sheet in the back if I didn't have my old Merc ????
A Volvo V70?What big estate could I buy (for a works car) that will tow 2.1 tonnes and fit a 2 metre sheet in the back if I didn't have my old Merc ????
Edit: Dacwagen Duster, Defender...
Anyway there was a Full spec Skoda vs poverty spec A4 thread like a week ago. I'd go for the Skoda, but was not sure if the O/P was trolling or serious
Edited by exelero on Thursday 16th February 05:26
The Passat I had previously was 1950 with a load width of 1000mm. The one I sold had two cuts in the carpet at the base of the suspension towers.
The big Skoda have a towing weight of less than a VW or Audi yet we're told it's the same floorpan.
Nope! Gotta be me old E class.
A Citroen is wide, long and cheap to buy, but I'd need convincing to buy one.
Paul G
Let's take BMW and he 330d for example - it is beyond any doubt a generation or two ahead of all competition. Also frankly what Non Herman maker has a 3ltr diesel which offers remotely close power and economy?
Merc and BMW all timing chain nice
Possibly as the tech of the top end 7 series S class flows down into the lower models which when you've only the Mondy to take from offers you nothing apart from taking he ideas from these brands.
But like German kitchens they cost a LOT more than British why? Quality certainly, also the big draws are designed to take 86kg of weight the British cannot even take HALF that weight by specification.
Merc and BMW all timing chain nice
Possibly as the tech of the top end 7 series S class flows down into the lower models which when you've only the Mondy to take from offers you nothing apart from taking he ideas from these brands.
But like German kitchens they cost a LOT more than British why? Quality certainly, also the big draws are designed to take 86kg of weight the British cannot even take HALF that weight by specification.
Has anyone in here actually got a new version of any of these "low spec" German cars, with their "perceived" quality?
I've not personally noticed a right lot of missing equipment in any I've had, and while I rather like (and have owned quite a few) Pugs, for example, they certainly aren't anything like as well made.
Anyway - must dash - got to go and check out the neighbours and what they've got, eh?
I've not personally noticed a right lot of missing equipment in any I've had, and while I rather like (and have owned quite a few) Pugs, for example, they certainly aren't anything like as well made.
Anyway - must dash - got to go and check out the neighbours and what they've got, eh?
Welshbeef said:
Let's take BMW and he 330d for example - it is beyond any doubt a generation or two ahead of all competition. Also frankly what Non Herman maker has a 3ltr diesel which offers remotely close power and economy?
Pretty much this. I try to avoid German cars simply because I don't like the image. They are a victim of their own success. People who have no clue about cars simply buy German because they are 'the best' and in most cases, they're not wrong - they just don't have any understanding as to what makes them 'the best' - of course its subjective too. However, even after avoiding German cars, I ended up with a 530d. A car that is all things to all men, and pretty much the best in most areas when comparing against non-German cars, it certainly ticked more boxes for the price when compared against a Jag , Lexus et al.
The biggest annoyance of German cars imo is the fact that they like to make almost everything an option. It always makes me laugh when I see a pose-spec cars that has been optioned with factory sport kit, large alloys, but lacks basic things inside like full leather seats, bluetooth or proper climate control. Things that are standard on most non-German cars.
Blaster72 said:
Biggest selling cars in the UK last year?
Ford Fiesta
Vauxhall Corsa
Ford Focus
VW Golf
Nissan Qashqai
Vauxhall Astra
VW Polo
MINI
Merc C-Class
Audi A3
Us Brits bought almost twice as many Fiestas as we did the nearest German, the Golf.
Everywhere I look in my area German cars aren't the most popular, it's Fords, Vauxhalls and lots of Nissans.
I suspect fleet buyers and company car owners are responsible for a big chunk of German models on the road.
Well that's rather killed this thread.Ford Fiesta
Vauxhall Corsa
Ford Focus
VW Golf
Nissan Qashqai
Vauxhall Astra
VW Polo
MINI
Merc C-Class
Audi A3
Us Brits bought almost twice as many Fiestas as we did the nearest German, the Golf.
Everywhere I look in my area German cars aren't the most popular, it's Fords, Vauxhalls and lots of Nissans.
I suspect fleet buyers and company car owners are responsible for a big chunk of German models on the road.
Blaster72 said:
Us Brits bought almost twice as many Fiestas as we did the nearest German, the Golf.
Everywhere I look in my area German cars aren't the most popular, it's Fords, Vauxhalls ...
My head hurts.Everywhere I look in my area German cars aren't the most popular, it's Fords, Vauxhalls ...
So, umm, what country would you say was the origin of Ford Europe (HQ: Cologne) and Opel (HQ: Russelsheim)? Fiesta production for Europe is split between Spain and Cologne, but would you say Spanish-built Fiestas were Spanish, any more than some Minis are Dutch or Austrian?
Or, umm, some Nissans are British?
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