Why the UK obsession with "German" cars?
Discussion
Monkeylegend said:
When you buy them 13 year old, most of the depreciation has happened, laughing boy 
There's a good reason for that: it's because they're a bit s
t.(Sorry - I'm speaking from somewhat bitter experience; I ended up making a private sale of my 9 year old R230 - mint, 100K, FMBSH. £7500)
deltashad said:
Snobbery.
Yes, if you know nothing about a car you know you will get instant respect no matter who you are if you pull up in a BM merc audi.
Why would I or anyone else respect someone just because they drive a German car, or why would they deserve any more respect than someone driving any other non German brand of car?Yes, if you know nothing about a car you know you will get instant respect no matter who you are if you pull up in a BM merc audi.
Do you mean kudos? If so, Audi, BMW or Mercedes carry no more Kudos for me than any other brand.
RizzoTheRat said:
Exactly, and I'd consider JLR to be British despite being Indian owned.
So would I. Because the actual business HQ is based here, and the product range planning is entirely driven from here. Even when the Slovak plant starts production soon, they'll be "British".Mini's a bit more mixed - very much German-driven from the parent - so UK/German, even the ones built in NL and Austria. Same with Bentley and RR.
It's also why Nissan (European corp HQ in CH, but still very Japanese-driven with very strong French links), Toyota (Belgian/Japanese) and Honda (UK/Japanese) aren't, nor are Opel or Ford (both German).
If it shows anything, it shows just how ridiculous trying to assign "nationality" to the products of global corporations is.
RizzoTheRat said:
As a Brit I'd certainly never have considered them to be British. It's odd however that I don't really associate them with a specific country the way I would with say BMW or Crysler, despite Vauxhall actually having been a British company originally.
That's what I imagined too. 
Swampy1982 said:
I've got a MY2017 A4 base spec, only option being I changed the wheels (different design £295) and adaptive headlights (£300)
It has everything I need, nothing more, nothing less. Digital radio, sat nav (through my phone) wireless phone charging, bluetooth phone, bluetooth music, whatsapp support, spottify support, xenon headlights, auto dimming mirror etc
I could have had a top spec mondeo vignale, but the only real spec difference that I would have meaningfully used was the heated seats.
Its a company car
Because of the CO2, the Mondeo would have cost me about £80 more net
The Audi costs me £25 more than the insignia it replaces.
The Audi is clearly the logical, financial choice.
The question is why wouldn't you get the German car in this scenario? I would bet a lot of the 3 series, A4 and C classes on the road are company cars.
The Insignia is cheaper and the Mondeo is more expensive so obviously the A4 is perfect... Of course it is for you, why not just say you prefer the Audi rather than try and justify it and make out it is the most logical choice? Strange.It has everything I need, nothing more, nothing less. Digital radio, sat nav (through my phone) wireless phone charging, bluetooth phone, bluetooth music, whatsapp support, spottify support, xenon headlights, auto dimming mirror etc
I could have had a top spec mondeo vignale, but the only real spec difference that I would have meaningfully used was the heated seats.
Its a company car
Because of the CO2, the Mondeo would have cost me about £80 more net
The Audi costs me £25 more than the insignia it replaces.
The Audi is clearly the logical, financial choice.
The question is why wouldn't you get the German car in this scenario? I would bet a lot of the 3 series, A4 and C classes on the road are company cars.
I was admiring the rust on one of the clients cars this morning which happens to be a MKV Golf. That's premium, German rust that is. This car has also had a full specification of uber electrical problems leaving her stranded and without wheels, but stranded and without wheels in a solid and Germanic way. Oh yes.
The car was bought on the strength of her previous MKIV Golf that consumed oil at impressive rates, compared to the Honda I had at the time which only managed to use 1 litre of oil in 130,000 miles.
The car was bought on the strength of her previous MKIV Golf that consumed oil at impressive rates, compared to the Honda I had at the time which only managed to use 1 litre of oil in 130,000 miles.
From my perspective there is just as much non German cars than there is German cars on the road. However, if I ask most people from people my age (27) to those just passing there test at 17 what kind of car they want, VAG, BMW or Merc is the answer nearly every time. The only time it usually isn't, is when I talk to a car enthusiast.
So I think there is an obsession with German cars and particularly that perceived image that you have made it. I'd like to think I am not a 'reverse snob' because I do like a lot of German cars, the E46 M3, the early turbocharged RS4, any V8 AMG Mercedes and countless other cars that I really lust after, but for standard models of car, I'd probably chose Ford or Seat every single time.
So I think there is an obsession with German cars and particularly that perceived image that you have made it. I'd like to think I am not a 'reverse snob' because I do like a lot of German cars, the E46 M3, the early turbocharged RS4, any V8 AMG Mercedes and countless other cars that I really lust after, but for standard models of car, I'd probably chose Ford or Seat every single time.
neil1jnr said:
Swampy1982 said:
I've got a MY2017 A4 base spec, only option being I changed the wheels (different design £295) and adaptive headlights (£300)
It has everything I need, nothing more, nothing less. Digital radio, sat nav (through my phone) wireless phone charging, bluetooth phone, bluetooth music, whatsapp support, spottify support, xenon headlights, auto dimming mirror etc
I could have had a top spec mondeo vignale, but the only real spec difference that I would have meaningfully used was the heated seats.
Its a company car
Because of the CO2, the Mondeo would have cost me about £80 more net
The Audi costs me £25 more than the insignia it replaces.
The Audi is clearly the logical, financial choice.
The question is why wouldn't you get the German car in this scenario? I would bet a lot of the 3 series, A4 and C classes on the road are company cars.
The Insignia is cheaper and the Mondeo is more expensive so obviously the A4 is perfect... Of course it is for you, why not just say you prefer the Audi rather than try and justify it and make out it is the most logical choice? Strange.It has everything I need, nothing more, nothing less. Digital radio, sat nav (through my phone) wireless phone charging, bluetooth phone, bluetooth music, whatsapp support, spottify support, xenon headlights, auto dimming mirror etc
I could have had a top spec mondeo vignale, but the only real spec difference that I would have meaningfully used was the heated seats.
Its a company car
Because of the CO2, the Mondeo would have cost me about £80 more net
The Audi costs me £25 more than the insignia it replaces.
The Audi is clearly the logical, financial choice.
The question is why wouldn't you get the German car in this scenario? I would bet a lot of the 3 series, A4 and C classes on the road are company cars.
German models today account for roughly 35% of all cars sold in the UK. So, about 1 in 3 new cars are German brands.
German models today account for roughly 85% of premium car sales in the UK.
Like it or not, German carmakers do a great job of looking solid and reliable. Even a boggo Golf has a satisfying thud when you close the door, close fitting of panels, and relatively strong-looking plastic / cloth interiors. Inside and outside, they appear good-quality and reliable (regardless of the reality). The man sees a robust vehicle outside, the woman sees a safe or posh place inside.
Of course, German marketing is very good (for its target segments). It first caught hold in the aspirational 1980s with the classic VW ads that excited gullible yuppies, and it continues today with the cringey BMW ads where a man in a shiny suit pulls up to a glass palace in a 520d.
On a side note -- if Theresa May wants a post-Brexit Northern Powerhouse, the way to achieve that is to set the UK-led car industry the goal of beating the German premium car industry. Steal 20% market share in 20 years, or something like that. They are ripe for the picking. Jaguar Land Rover, McLaren etc. could do it if they had enough government and populace support. Unlikely to happen, though. Brits do not like factory work and civil servants with money and power care only about London.
German models today account for roughly 85% of premium car sales in the UK.
Like it or not, German carmakers do a great job of looking solid and reliable. Even a boggo Golf has a satisfying thud when you close the door, close fitting of panels, and relatively strong-looking plastic / cloth interiors. Inside and outside, they appear good-quality and reliable (regardless of the reality). The man sees a robust vehicle outside, the woman sees a safe or posh place inside.
Of course, German marketing is very good (for its target segments). It first caught hold in the aspirational 1980s with the classic VW ads that excited gullible yuppies, and it continues today with the cringey BMW ads where a man in a shiny suit pulls up to a glass palace in a 520d.
On a side note -- if Theresa May wants a post-Brexit Northern Powerhouse, the way to achieve that is to set the UK-led car industry the goal of beating the German premium car industry. Steal 20% market share in 20 years, or something like that. They are ripe for the picking. Jaguar Land Rover, McLaren etc. could do it if they had enough government and populace support. Unlikely to happen, though. Brits do not like factory work and civil servants with money and power care only about London.
All makes of car have components in from all countries over the world. Not all BMW Merc Audi VW are made in Germany, not all Japanese cars are made in Japan, etc etc.
Build quality should be about the car from the ground up and how the car will last. I have had various "German" cars my 1998 beat up old Golf GTI which was 15ish years old and gone round the clock felt as solid as a rock. No rattles or squeaks, quiet engine, smooth gear box and if the old tin worm hadn't got it then I'm sure it would still be going today. 2007 Passat didn't feel premium but as good the day it went as it was when I got it, 2012 C Class felt like it was a quality product and it felt like it could go on for ever, 2015 BMW 5 series.....oh dear, Interior trim falling off, rattles all over the place, doors and boot that vibrate when shut a pile of crap.
Best cars by far in all that I have had for build quality have been a Toyota Corolla (Oh how that sucked at my soul every time I drove it) and a 1988 Vauxhall Cavalier.
Build quality should be about the car from the ground up and how the car will last. I have had various "German" cars my 1998 beat up old Golf GTI which was 15ish years old and gone round the clock felt as solid as a rock. No rattles or squeaks, quiet engine, smooth gear box and if the old tin worm hadn't got it then I'm sure it would still be going today. 2007 Passat didn't feel premium but as good the day it went as it was when I got it, 2012 C Class felt like it was a quality product and it felt like it could go on for ever, 2015 BMW 5 series.....oh dear, Interior trim falling off, rattles all over the place, doors and boot that vibrate when shut a pile of crap.
Best cars by far in all that I have had for build quality have been a Toyota Corolla (Oh how that sucked at my soul every time I drove it) and a 1988 Vauxhall Cavalier.
Blaster72 said:
Biggest selling cars in the UK last year?
Ford Fiesta
Vauxhall Corsa
Ford Focus
VW Golf
Nissan Qashqai
Vauxhall Astra
VW Polo
MINI
Merc C-Class
Audi A3
Us Brits bought almost twice as many Fiestas as we did the nearest German, the Golf.
Everywhere I look in my area German cars aren't the most popular, it's Fords, Vauxhalls and lots of Nissans.
I suspect fleet buyers and company car owners are responsible for a big chunk of German models on the road.
Slightly unfair comparison. Fiesta starts at around 10k and Golf around 18k list. The only thing people like more than a "premium" car is a cheap car! The new Fiesta is going to go upmarket though, which to me sounds like a risky strategy. I can't really see would be Fiesta buyers priced out of the market flocking to that horrible little Ka+ thing instead. Fiesta/Focus and Corsa/Astra will likely always be favourites due to price, strong value and heavy depreciation making them excellent nearly new buys (and rental fleets will always ensure a good supply of these vehicles on the nearly new market). However, higher up, when did you last see a new Mondeo or Insignia? You can't even get a mid-size family car from Renault or Nissan any more ie - Laguna/Primera, although the Qashquai has done pretty well. Sierras/Mondeos/Cavaliers/Vectras were everywhere in the 80s and 90s but now you're more likely to see 3-Series, C-Classes and Audi A4s.Ford Fiesta
Vauxhall Corsa
Ford Focus
VW Golf
Nissan Qashqai
Vauxhall Astra
VW Polo
MINI
Merc C-Class
Audi A3
Us Brits bought almost twice as many Fiestas as we did the nearest German, the Golf.
Everywhere I look in my area German cars aren't the most popular, it's Fords, Vauxhalls and lots of Nissans.
I suspect fleet buyers and company car owners are responsible for a big chunk of German models on the road.
RobM77 said:
Why can't you just believe what he says instead of making up reasons for him? He's talking complete sense. If you look at the prices of the A4, Mondeo, 3 series etc, they're all pretty much the same price, especially on lease as a company car etc. Most people presumably prefer the A4 to the Mondeo. I've driven both on a number of occasions as hire and courtesy cars and whilst I don't like either of them, I can easily see why people prefer the A4. People who are saying 'the Mondeo is better' are just being snobs/bigots/racists etc who are anti-German in my opinion - the A4 is clearly the superior car in a lot of people's minds, and it should be fairly easy to see why if you have an open mind.
Of course I believe him, I would probably take the A4 for too, maybe the Mondeo but not the Insignia.That was my point that they are roughly the same price, so why talk about price; 'The Audi is only this much more than my last car, but the Mondeo is too expensive'. It looks like I am more open minded than yourself. I can see why anybody would by any of the three, looking at your comment in bold though, you clearly can't. With your logic, only people with open minds would say the A4 is better, and people that say the Mondeo is better are, and I quote it again just to illustrate how ridiculous you sound:
RobM77 said:
People who are saying 'the Mondeo is better' are just being snobs/bigots/racists etc who are anti-German in my opinion.
My only point was regarding justification via the price being just right when there isn't a need IMO.Put simply, the Germans make very good cars that appeal to a lot of people. Yes, Toyotas and Hondas are more reliable, Alfas have character and certain models here and there are more fun to drive, but for the average car buyer buying the average model, those individual abilities are unimportant, because German cars offer a very appealing all round package that's hard to beat.
Dog Star said:
Monkeylegend said:
When you buy them 13 year old, most of the depreciation has happened, laughing boy
There's a good reason for that: it's because they're a bit st.(Sorry - I'm speaking from somewhat bitter experience; I ended up making a private sale of my 9 year old R230 - mint, 100K, FMBSH. £7500)
Fingers crossed so far with mine but the only expenditure has been a starter battery and an MOT which it sailed through two weeks ago.
Monkeylegend said:
There are some bad cars out there but buy carefully and go in with your eyes open, and they are tremendous value for money and hopefully a good one will hold it's value reasonably well.
Fingers crossed so far with mine but the only expenditure has been a starter battery and an MOT which it sailed through two weeks ago.
Mine did me for £18k in repairs over 3 years.Fingers crossed so far with mine but the only expenditure has been a starter battery and an MOT which it sailed through two weeks ago.
Dog Star said:
Monkeylegend said:
There are some bad cars out there but buy carefully and go in with your eyes open, and they are tremendous value for money and hopefully a good one will hold it's value reasonably well.
Fingers crossed so far with mine but the only expenditure has been a starter battery and an MOT which it sailed through two weeks ago.
Mine did me for £18k in repairs over 3 years.Fingers crossed so far with mine but the only expenditure has been a starter battery and an MOT which it sailed through two weeks ago.
Yours must have had ABC suspension?
What other issues did you have?
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