Why the UK obsession with "German" cars?

[Hungrymc]

Swampy1982 said:

The A4 in my scenario was the best car at a reasonable price, decided on the requirment to provide for my family. Please note, I downgraded banding to get the A4 and could have had a full range of cars from Jaguar through to full spec Mercs, but decided based on best value for money over a 4 year period with CO2 bands changing over that period.

Do I think the A4 is viewed as "better" by most non-car people, yeah for sure, was this the deciding factor - absolutely not. Do I personally prefer it... yes now I compare it to my mates Mondeo.

(I ruled out the insignia as I had already suffered one for 3 years of troublesome motoring leaving me stranded with a young son and grumpy misses.)

A few work colleagues have the "value" A4 with the 1.4 engine. It's a decent enough car and works out very cheap on lease and company schemes. All of them have moved from feeling ever so pleased that they have an incredible bargain of a car to really disliking them for the engine. I suspect it's a risky strategy for VAG to go this route. I've owned a few German cars but never really felt any love for VAG. They do certainly do some attractive finance deals and cleverly specify cars to minimize company car impact..... So I do understand the value argument.

I've never bought a car based on a spread sheet calculation of the usability of the features and the cost, I normally want some nice features that will make the car feel a little more special. I have three cars at the moment that are all British made - but that wasn't a conscious effort to buy British, they're just the cars that fitted the criteria. Once again, I guess it shows we all have different needs and wants in a car.

[Leroy902]

Like most things, German made products are superior to British/American/French etc... made things.

[RobM77]

ericmcn said:

German cars are over rated, period.

Well, someone's wrong then aren't they? Is it you, or the millions of happy repeat customers of German cars? Let me see what's more likely... I'm guessing that you just don't understand what attracts people to certain cars.

[PaulGL790]

Indeed it is the German Badges that do it for everyone. despite some of the Volkswagens being made in Spain and Portugal .
Granted the VAG, Audi/BM/Merc have good quality interiors and comfatable but some of the foreign competition drive better and have better standard kit some of the newer BMWs don't handle quite so well as the older BMWs .
I still think the Scirocco is the best VAG product and I really like the Mercedes CLA coupe/saloon which I'm considering as a next car . I also think the latest Renault Megane is stunning Renault really seem to be upping their game and moving up in the driver power league. I generally buy what I like the look of and has good standard equipment rather than the badge on the front.

The German brands are popular being cheap to lease for company's as they keep their value and don't cost too much more than a Mondeo or Insignia loaded with kit. the Audi A3/A4/ Passat/ 318i/ A/C class merc are in the place of the Sierra/Mondeo/Cavalier/Vectra/pug 405 from the 80's and 90's travelling Salesman .

Its amazing how you can impress ignorant non car enthusiasts by driving around in say a 2002 registered BMW 320i or Mercedes C180 worth around £1500 and people think you have really made it in life, I rest my case

[FN2TypeR]

Dog Star said:

Has anyone in here actually got a new version of any of these "low spec" German cars, with their "perceived" quality?

I've not personally noticed a right lot of missing equipment in any I've had, and while I rather like (and have owned quite a few) Pugs, for example, they certainly aren't anything like as well made.

Anyway - must dash - got to go and check out the neighbours and what they've got, eh?

I use a pool car at work, it's a diesel MK7 Golf and, in my opinion, compared to the MK5 and MK6 it's nothing more than a poor imitation of a Golf, the MK5 was a very good car in terms of its interior and quality, as was the MK6 - the MK7? It's alright, but only alright. It creaks like an old wooden ship.

[Hungrymc]

FN2TypeR said:

Dog Star said:

Has anyone in here actually got a new version of any of these "low spec" German cars, with their "perceived" quality?

I've not personally noticed a right lot of missing equipment in any I've had, and while I rather like (and have owned quite a few) Pugs, for example, they certainly aren't anything like as well made.

Anyway - must dash - got to go and check out the neighbours and what they've got, eh?

I use a pool car at work, it's a diesel MK7 Golf and, in my opinion, compared to the MK5 and MK6 it's nothing more than a poor imitation of a Golf, the MK5 was a very good car in terms of its interior and quality, as was the MK6 - the MK7? It's alright, but only alright. It creaks like an old wooden ship.

I think quality of materials in the interior peaked in the mk4 (note, that's not trying to say it was the best - but i think they spent most money on materials in that). Since then, material quality has been reducing and they're trying to offset it with smart engineering.

[white_goodman]

nickfrog said:

Maybe some people buy a car despite it being German as they don't care what nationality it is ?

Absolutely and from my very varied car history (in terms of manufacturers) including 5 German cars (6 if you count the MINI) I hope that I have shown no bias or affiliation with a particular brand.

I'm probably asking the wrong demographic, as most of the people on here that drive a German car have a very good reason for doing so i.e. it meets their needs better than anything else, they enjoy the drive more than something else or there is nothing comparable available.

I completely understand that there are no really comparable equivalents to vehicles such as the M135i/M235i and RS6 for example or even a 335d.

But my point still stands. Out of the 5 German cars that I owned, only two of them were well built and reliable (an E30 3-Series and a new Spanish-built Polo). My mk4 Golf (only 7 years old and low mileage at the time) was complete garbage. Maybe I just had a bad one but other friends with mk4 Golfs had lots of issues too and many German cars have well-documented common problems. In contrast my Fiats (not a manufacturer well-know for its reliability and build quality) were both 100% reliable, as were ALL my Japanese cars (Mazda, Subaru, Toyota, Honda). Surely that can't be an accident!

Genuine premium "premium" German cars are clearly really nice pieces of kit but to get a BMW/Audi/Mercedes down to a similar price to a Ford/Vauxhall, corners have to be cut and reliability and build quality will suffer. One of the worst cars that I have driven was the original Mercedes A-Class, which came with a litany of problems and drove substantially worse than a 5k Ford Ka. On the flipside, the more expensive models in the Mercedes range at the time were truly lovely and genuinely lived up to the "premium" image.

You get what you pay for and if you think you're getting a reliable, well-built "premium" car for the same price as a Mondeo then you have to be a little delusional.

Edited by white_goodman on Friday 17th February 03:24

[Andy665]

There is a clear belief in the UK that anything perceived as "German" has to be better than anything else - I dont get it.

Owned cars built from all around the world and can't say I have noticed much difference in quality and reliability. My M135i I bought despite the quality, build is fine but materials are poor for the price of the car.

I work in Germany 3 days a week - German efficiency is a complete myth - last in the office and first to leave, trains are less reliable than here and the bureaucracy - cripples working effectively

My sister will only buy German cars, she is a business owner, pretty successful but believes "I will only buy German because everyone knows that they are the best" - she could not justify or explain her rationale - I couldn't care less what she drives but just goes to show how very effective marketing over many years has worked its magic

Edited by Andy665 on Friday 17th February 07:30

Edited by Andy665 on Friday 17th February 12:03

[tomjol]

Andy665 said:

There is a clear belief in the UK that anything perceived as "German" has to be better than anything else - I dont get it.

Owned cars built from all around the world and can't say I have noticed much difference in quality and reliability. My M135i I bought despite the quality, build is fine but materials are poor for the price of the car.

I work in Germany 3 days a week - German efficiency is a complete myth - last in the office and first to leave, trains are less reliable than here and the bureaucracy - paralyses working effectively

Edited by Andy665 on Friday 17th February 07:30

Um, doesn't that demonstrate their efficiency? Get lots done in as short a time as possible, then go home?

Obviously our cultural obsession with presenteeism is vastly superior

[RobM77]

PaulGL790 said:

Indeed it is the German Badges that do it for everyone.

Do you have any evidence for that definitive statement? I'd guess that's just how you view cars: in terms of image, and you therefore assume everyone else thinks like you too. That's just a guess though, an opinion, much like your statement above.

[nickfrog]

DELETED: Comment made by a member who's account has been deleted.

Even if it actually happened, I think this says more about your own insecurities and reverse snobbery than anything else.

[RizzoTheRat]

Build quality is a tricky one to judge. Reliability ought to have plenty of data behind it but all the surveys claiming to be about reliability are subjective opinions of owners rather than real data on breakdown/breakage rates (eg in certain industries you work on Mean Time/Distance Between Failure in order to predict spares requirements)

Still in the customer satisfaction surveys the Germans don't do that well, but lots of factors in there, for example Skoda are high up but doe people accept more niggles* on them than they would on a more expensive car?

http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/best-cars/driver-powe...

Based on warrenty claims data Mercedes CLC is the only German in the top 10, while 8 of the bottom 10 are German
http://www.reliabilityindex.com/

[Richard-390a0]

Well if we're so obsessed with German cars, GM have missed a trick by not rebranding Vauxhalls as Opels as they are in the rest of Euroland. Or are we more obsessed with being patriotic than buying german maybe?. If you percieve GM as U.S, Opel as German & Vauxhall as British, all of which is a total nonsense really.

Edited by Richard-390a0 on Friday 17th February 11:00

[RobM77]

nickfrog said:

Nanook said:

Most of the younger guys in work all lust after 1-series, A3, A-class, that sort of thing, one of them got himself a 1 series recently. Not a particular fast/special one, but obviously it's better and faster than my car, because it's new, and is German, and is an M-sport.

He came from a 3-cylinder Corsa, so it probably feels quite fast, but other than the car he learned in, he's never driven anything else.

So I took him a quick run in my 'Old Nissan' the other night. Nothing silly, but he just wasn't having it, that my car was probably a little bit quicker than a 2.0d BMW. Stretched it's legs a bit, he was scared when I got to 5krpm that it was going to explode because I was revving it too much

Think he's a bit deflated about his BMW's M-Sport performance now.

(Yes, I know my car really isn't that fast, and that many new diesels will keep up/beat it off the line with ease)

Even if it actually happened, I think this says more about your own insecurities and reverse snobbery than anything else.

Very much so. Too many people seem to invent reasons for other people desiring or buying cars and then attack those reasons, rather than actually taking any time to listen to the truth.

[neil1jnr]

RobM77 said:

PaulGL790 said:

Indeed it is the German Badges that do it for everyone.

Do you have any evidence for that definitive statement? I'd guess that's just how you view cars: in terms of image, and you therefore assume everyone else thinks like you too. That's just a guess though, an opinion, much like your statement above.

I agree with Paul, the evidence being from what I said earlier on this thread. From what I gather from people I speak to, the German brands are perceived to be a cut above the rest in the mind of the non car enthusiast. This usually results in them aspiring to own a German car over non German manufacturers which is completely understandable and there isn't anything wrong with that.

Rob, you haven't replied to my earlier post, but do you have any evidence for the statement you made earlier in this thread?

RobM77 said:

People who are saying 'the Mondeo is better' are just being snobs/bigots/racists etc who are anti-German in my opinion.

Like your reply to Paul, the above is very obviously only your opinion of people that prefer Fords over Audis. You don't have any evidence of this do you? It looks like you are very anti-Ford because of your attack on anyone that would even consider the Mondeo to be the better car than the A4, even though overall it probably is IMO.

Where does racism even come into this??

[Sheepshanks]

Hungrymc said:

FN2TypeR said:

Dog Star said:

Has anyone in here actually got a new version of any of these "low spec" German cars, with their "perceived" quality?

I've not personally noticed a right lot of missing equipment in any I've had, and while I rather like (and have owned quite a few) Pugs, for example, they certainly aren't anything like as well made.

Anyway - must dash - got to go and check out the neighbours and what they've got, eh?

I use a pool car at work, it's a diesel MK7 Golf and, in my opinion, compared to the MK5 and MK6 it's nothing more than a poor imitation of a Golf, the MK5 was a very good car in terms of its interior and quality, as was the MK6 - the MK7? It's alright, but only alright. It creaks like an old wooden ship.

I think quality of materials in the interior peaked in the mk4 (note, that's not trying to say it was the best - but i think they spent most money on materials in that). Since then, material quality has been reducing and they're trying to offset it with smart engineering.

My only experience of Golf is a very basic mk6 (Twist model, with the old non-TSi petrol engine) we've had in the family since 2011. I wanted to buy a Kia C'eed or Hyundai i30 for their warranty and we also looked at Astra and Focus. I really don't know how VW do it, but the Golf just felt in a completely different league.

The dealer is hateful though and I stopped using them as soon as the service package expired. It does occur to me that if the Germans could sort out their customer service then everyone else might as well throw the towel in.

[Rovnumpty]

Think it'a very much a british thing.

That weird mix of snobbishness, ignorance and arrogance that you don't really find anywhere else on the planet.

Just need to look at some of the posts on this forum every day to confirm that one.

[neil1jnr]

RobM77 said:

nickfrog said:

Nanook said:

Most of the younger guys in work all lust after 1-series, A3, A-class, that sort of thing, one of them got himself a 1 series recently. Not a particular fast/special one, but obviously it's better and faster than my car, because it's new, and is German, and is an M-sport.

He came from a 3-cylinder Corsa, so it probably feels quite fast, but other than the car he learned in, he's never driven anything else.

So I took him a quick run in my 'Old Nissan' the other night. Nothing silly, but he just wasn't having it, that my car was probably a little bit quicker than a 2.0d BMW. Stretched it's legs a bit, he was scared when I got to 5krpm that it was going to explode because I was revving it too much

Think he's a bit deflated about his BMW's M-Sport performance now.

(Yes, I know my car really isn't that fast, and that many new diesels will keep up/beat it off the line with ease)

Even if it actually happened, I think this says more about your own insecurities and reverse snobbery than anything else.

Very much so. Too many people seem to invent reasons for other people desiring or buying cars and then attack those reasons, rather than actually taking any time to listen to the truth.

I am with Nanook, I don't see why there is an attack on him, he only telling you what he observed and gave no opinion apart from he thinks his colleague was a bit deflated, so why would he be insecure? I've encountered this a few times in the past, a younger guys with a 118d M sport couldn't believe my Fiesta ST is the quicker? Why, because it's a Fiesta and he has an M Sport. It's just an observation and whether you like it or not, for the non-Pistonhead I generally think there is a perception that German marques are far superior and in some occasions they have been mis-judged as quicker than other cars too, just because of a badge.

Now all this is fine, I don't have anything against anyone that prefers any car over another, but you have to accept the fact that in some circumstances, like the scenario Nanook explained above, some of the younger generation are a bit deluded about German cars.

Rob, what is this truth you speak of? The thread is a discussion about obsession with German cars in the UK, people give examples and they get shot down, or aren't believed in Nickfrogs case.

[RobM77]

neil1jnr said:

RobM77 said:

nickfrog said:

Nanook said:

Most of the younger guys in work all lust after 1-series, A3, A-class, that sort of thing, one of them got himself a 1 series recently. Not a particular fast/special one, but obviously it's better and faster than my car, because it's new, and is German, and is an M-sport.

He came from a 3-cylinder Corsa, so it probably feels quite fast, but other than the car he learned in, he's never driven anything else.

So I took him a quick run in my 'Old Nissan' the other night. Nothing silly, but he just wasn't having it, that my car was probably a little bit quicker than a 2.0d BMW. Stretched it's legs a bit, he was scared when I got to 5krpm that it was going to explode because I was revving it too much

Think he's a bit deflated about his BMW's M-Sport performance now.

(Yes, I know my car really isn't that fast, and that many new diesels will keep up/beat it off the line with ease)

Even if it actually happened, I think this says more about your own insecurities and reverse snobbery than anything else.

Very much so. Too many people seem to invent reasons for other people desiring or buying cars and then attack those reasons, rather than actually taking any time to listen to the truth.

I am with Nanook, I don't see why there is an attack on him, he only telling you what he observed and gave no opinion apart from he thinks his colleague was a bit deflated, so why would he be insecure? I've encountered this a few times in the past, a younger guys with a 118d M sport couldn't believe my Fiesta ST is the quicker? Why, because it's a Fiesta and he has an M Sport. It's just an observation and whether you like it or not, for the non-Pistonhead I generally think there is a perception that German marques are far superior and in some occasions they have been mis-judged as quicker than other cars too, just because of a badge.

Now all this is fine, I don't have anything against anyone that prefers any car over another, but you have to accept the fact that in some circumstances, like the scenario Nanook explained above, some of the younger generation are a bit deluded about German cars.

Rob, what is this truth you speak of? The thread is a discussion about obsession with German cars in the UK, people give examples and they get shot down, or aren't believed in Nickfrogs case.

The truth is simply the actual reason someone bought the car. I've been told on here countless times why I bought my car; some people are correct, most are wrong. Those that are wrong have been very insistent, and I've often been told flat out that I'm lying countless times. Ridiculous arrogance.

[Swampy1982]

Hungrymc said:

Swampy1982 said:

The A4 in my scenario was the best car at a reasonable price, decided on the requirment to provide for my family. Please note, I downgraded banding to get the A4 and could have had a full range of cars from Jaguar through to full spec Mercs, but decided based on best value for money over a 4 year period with CO2 bands changing over that period.

Do I think the A4 is viewed as "better" by most non-car people, yeah for sure, was this the deciding factor - absolutely not. Do I personally prefer it... yes now I compare it to my mates Mondeo.

(I ruled out the insignia as I had already suffered one for 3 years of troublesome motoring leaving me stranded with a young son and grumpy misses.)

A few work colleagues have the "value" A4 with the 1.4 engine. It's a decent enough car and works out very cheap on lease and company schemes. All of them have moved from feeling ever so pleased that they have an incredible bargain of a car to really disliking them for the engine. I suspect it's a risky strategy for VAG to go this route. I've owned a few German cars but never really felt any love for VAG. They do certainly do some attractive finance deals and cleverly specify cars to minimize company car impact..... So I do understand the value argument.

I've never bought a car based on a spread sheet calculation of the usability of the features and the cost, I normally want some nice features that will make the car feel a little more special. I have three cars at the moment that are all British made - but that wasn't a conscious effort to buy British, they're just the cars that fitted the criteria. Once again, I guess it shows we all have different needs and wants in a car.

This is the 2.0D engine, its got 150 BHP so not quick but the torque is good enough to perform overtakes as needed and most importantly it falls into the 99g CO2 banding.

Never previously have I "brought" a car based on the cost element, always previously I have been guided by heart (mk1 golf as a previous daily being an example) but I am at a point in my life, with a young family, that cost and practicality is key.

It clever how Audi made the car 99g CO2 in order to appeal to the company car market, when you look at the alternatives at the same retail price, no one else gets close. Petrol wasn't an option on my list, so thankfully I don't need to suffer the 1.4