Why the UK obsession with "German" cars?

Why the UK obsession with "German" cars?

Author
Discussion

RizzoTheRat

25,085 posts

191 months

Friday 17th February 2017
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Swampy1982 said:
It clever how Audi made the car 99g CO2 in order to appeal to the company car market, when you look at the alternatives at the same retail price, no one else gets close. Petrol wasn't an option on my list, so thankfully I don't need to suffer the 1.4
Does it still come in the 99g bracket when not cheating on tests though? wink

Rod200SX

8,086 posts

175 months

Friday 17th February 2017
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German cars are a weird one for me. I severely dislike them, the image, the cliche drivers of them (Aberdeen is terrible for it)

Yet, I find myself looking at 2 German cars to upgrade to. Wanting away from the turbo nutter jap cars into a bit of comfort but still fun I've been looking at Audi S5's and 996 911.

Whenever I gain an interest in a car I add up the positives and negatives, and these two (and a 300C SRT8 but that's a left field choice) come up trumps. Only issue being potentially high servicing costs.

The porsche I don't mind, they are lovely. But the S5 annoys me, it makes total sense, I do think it looks great, goes quite well and has some gadgets, but the image in Aberdeen is dreadful & I don't quite know if I can quite bring myself to it. If I got an Audi it's going to have to be in the brightest colour I can find, no black white or silver.

telecat

8,528 posts

240 months

Friday 17th February 2017
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rs990 said:
telecat said:
My Prospective Son in law bought a 320D Xdrive on a lease deal, Nice car. Then he left his job and went to Uni for a few years so decided to terminate it and buy a Petrol 325i Coupe E92 model. Much Prefers it despite it being a 2006 model and not 2014. Drives better. Nicer engine etc. They seem to have lost some of their charisma in the drive to dominate the market.
Surely that's got more to do with the switch from 4 cylinder 4WD diesel to 6 cylinder RWD petrol. The 325i is always going to be a more fun car to drive.

Personally I am driving BMW because nobody else is making 6 cylinder RWD hatchbacks these days. Maybe the next gen RWD Alfa Romeo Giulietta might be future option?
I thought there was No excuse NOT to buy a diesel?? Here we have 8 years between vehicles and the better car is the older, supposedly inferior vehicle.

daveco

4,122 posts

206 months

Friday 17th February 2017
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telecat said:
rs990 said:
telecat said:
My Prospective Son in law bought a 320D Xdrive on a lease deal, Nice car. Then he left his job and went to Uni for a few years so decided to terminate it and buy a Petrol 325i Coupe E92 model. Much Prefers it despite it being a 2006 model and not 2014. Drives better. Nicer engine etc. They seem to have lost some of their charisma in the drive to dominate the market.
Surely that's got more to do with the switch from 4 cylinder 4WD diesel to 6 cylinder RWD petrol. The 325i is always going to be a more fun car to drive.

Personally I am driving BMW because nobody else is making 6 cylinder RWD hatchbacks these days. Maybe the next gen RWD Alfa Romeo Giulietta might be future option?
I thought there was No excuse NOT to buy a diesel?? Here we have 8 years between vehicles and the better car is the older, supposedly inferior vehicle.
From a driving enjoyment perspective, a 6 cylinder petrol engined BMW is going to be hard to beat. It sounds better, revs nicer, you can use the entire rev range etc

A diesel engine is an inelastic thing. I went from a 335i to a 320d. The 320d gets me 700+ miles out of a tank but I still miss the 335, even though it got about 250 miles out of tank; cost me a fortune in fuel!

neil1jnr

1,460 posts

154 months

Friday 17th February 2017
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RobM77 said:
The truth is simply the actual reason someone bought the car. I've been told on here countless times why I bought my car; some people are correct, most are wrong. Those that are wrong have been very insistent, and I've often been told flat out that I'm lying countless times. Ridiculous arrogance.
Yes you are spot on.

I don't think myself or anyone else is implying that you, or anyone else with a German car, bought it for any other reason than you say, as rightly that would be ridiculous. I am only commenting on general observations I have made and I don't mean to say this is the same case for every owner of a German car. In Nanook's case what he has experienced regarding German cars and what others think about them is only an example.

I still believe there is an obsession with German cars and 'premium' everything in general with particularly the younger generation, and again there isn't anything wrong with that but it's definitely true. Why? Social media, reality TV, marketing? I all thing they play a part.





nickfrog

20,872 posts

216 months

Friday 17th February 2017
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DELETED: Comment made by a member who's account has been deleted.
Possibly ;-) - reading your post that's how I perceived it but I may indeed be wrong, sorry Nanook.

C70R

17,596 posts

103 months

Friday 17th February 2017
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NAS said:
C70R said:
Read that back, and try to work out who the wally is...
I am not British so meant what I said when I said that I find it interesting.

Ford (in Europe) and Vauxhall are German and have been for a very long time. On the continent, they are seen as German. Not in the UK. I didn't know they were actively marketed as British, and have been reading UK (CAR, Top gear, EVO etc.) magazines for the last 20 years. I don't recall a specific reference in any ad to them being British.

If it is so common, surely you would be able to provide an example?
You can literally take a Google/YouTube for any British Ford/Vx advert in the 70s/80s/90s and I can almost guarantee that you won't find a single reference to non-British parentage.
Many Ford adverts of the time made a BIG deal about how certain models were built in Dagenham - the bedrock of the "British motor industry".

Swampy1982

3,305 posts

110 months

Friday 17th February 2017
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RizzoTheRat said:
Swampy1982 said:
It clever how Audi made the car 99g CO2 in order to appeal to the company car market, when you look at the alternatives at the same retail price, no one else gets close. Petrol wasn't an option on my list, so thankfully I don't need to suffer the 1.4
Does it still come in the 99g bracket when not cheating on tests though? wink
Don't be daft, of course it doesn't... but shhhhh....

SuperchargedVR6

3,138 posts

219 months

Friday 17th February 2017
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white_goodman said:
Toyota and Mazda were most reliable (nothing required other than routine servicing and no rattles) and other than the Jeep, which was a complete disaster, the least reliable were the mk4 Golf and the Corrado. OK, the "perceived" quality of the Golf was nicer than the Mazda/Toyota (door shut with a solid thunk and higher grade interior plastics) but actual reliability was dire. My Fiat, Vauxhall and Subaru were all far more reliable and to be fair the BMW (E30) was pretty good too. The Mercedes was mechanically tough but badly rusting and lots of bits of trim falling off.
What's with the 'perceived'? If it felt better put together to you, then it was.

It's funny how people always say X, Y or Z was dire for reliability with absolutely no context.

Do you do any repairs and/or servicing on your vehicles? Or do you just drive them into the ground, wait for bits to inevitably break, and then slag them off for it on a forum?

You say the MK4 reliability was dire, I say my girlfriend's 1.6 MK4 (which I service and maintain) has just passed it's 16th MOT with no advisories. In all of those years, all it's required on top of servicing is, 1 x catalytic converter and 1 x window regulator. Yep, it's a seriously unreliable car.

Corrado's have a known weak sunroof - but blame Rockwell International for that. The spoiler can seize up from lack of maintenance, and that's all I can remember. I had one up to 205,000 miles and it was very reliable. Nothing ever fell off, no break downs, nothing.

I like German cars because I love maintaining and modifying them. They're like Lego to me. I've never got that bug from any other brand of car.


bodhi

10,333 posts

228 months

Friday 17th February 2017
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daveco said:
From a driving enjoyment perspective, a 6 cylinder petrol engined BMW is going to be hard to beat. It sounds better, revs nicer, you can use the entire rev range etc

A diesel engine is an inelastic thing. I went from a 335i to a 320d. The 320d gets me 700+ miles out of a tank but I still miss the 335, even though it got about 250 miles out of tank; cost me a fortune in fuel!
Whilst I had lots of very normal reasons for getting the 125i, I gotta say I think this was the biggest draw for me - I am a sucker for a straight 6, how unblievably smooth and flexible they are, and how they go from crooning to screaming once you get past a certain rev range.

For whatever reason I'm not such a fan of a V6 (will happily take it over a 4 banger though), so if I wanted that engine configuration there was only one place I could really go.


white_goodman

Original Poster:

4,042 posts

190 months

Friday 17th February 2017
quotequote all
SuperchargedVR6 said:
What's with the 'perceived'? If it felt better put together to you, then it was.

It's funny how people always say X, Y or Z was dire for reliability with absolutely no context.

Do you do any repairs and/or servicing on your vehicles? Or do you just drive them into the ground, wait for bits to inevitably break, and then slag them off for it on a forum?

You say the MK4 reliability was dire, I say my girlfriend's 1.6 MK4 (which I service and maintain) has just passed it's 16th MOT with no advisories. In all of those years, all it's required on top of servicing is, 1 x catalytic converter and 1 x window regulator. Yep, it's a seriously unreliable car.

Corrado's have a known weak sunroof - but blame Rockwell International for that. The spoiler can seize up from lack of maintenance, and that's all I can remember. I had one up to 205,000 miles and it was very reliable. Nothing ever fell off, no break downs, nothing.

I like German cars because I love maintaining and modifying them. They're like Lego to me. I've never got that bug from any other brand of car.
OK. My mk4 was a 2000 2.0 GTi 5 door bought at 7 years old with 67k. Full service history and 12 months MOT. The first thing that I had to change was the starter motor as it was making a funny noise and the front suspension bushes because the front suspension was knocking. Then it started idling poorly, which I never got to the bottom of as it didn't do it all the time and when they plugged it into the diagnostics nothing ever came up. It also used a lot of oil and only did about 20mpg but other than that it ran fine! Every time it rained the alarm went off, so I reverted to not bothering to lock it when it was raining (which was quite a lot in Manchester)! Not long after getting it, the rear doors decided to jam shut, so it was basically a 2 seater for most of my ownership! I had that common problem with the rear wash wipe that got sorted but the last straw was when I took it in for its next MOT and discovered that the brake lights had stopped working and the garage didn't know the cause and quoted me an extortionate figure to diagnose the problem. I traded it in for a new Polo the same time, which was fine actually but I only did 15,000 miles in it and had expected more from a 7 year old VW. I tend to buy at 6-7 years old and haven't had so many issues with any of the other cars that I have bought. Other friends had issues such as water leaks and window regulator problems with their mk4 Golfs (the window regulator being the only common problem that mine didn't suffer from)!

The Corrado VR6 that I had previous to the Golf had a broken sunroof and the heater jammed on hot air only. I also replaced the clutch and HT leads in my short tenure to try and cure an intermittent misfire but this never solved the problem. I can be a bit more forgiving of the Corrado, as it was 12 years old at the time and I enjoyed driving it when it was wasn't misfiring but I have to say it was less reliable and solid-feeling than the older E30 325i that I owned previously to it.

I do look after my cars and service them regularly and address problems as they crop up, so I have rarely been left stranded by the side of the road. I can only recall a broken clutch cable on a Peugeot 205.

By "perceived" quality I mean that you sit in a mk4 Golf, close the door and look at and touch the surfaces in the interior and it "feels" very well-built. In contrast, the Subaru that I owned later felt like a 20 year old Nissan Bluebird taxi cab to sit in but everything worked and nothing ever fell off!

SuperchargedVR6

3,138 posts

219 months

Friday 17th February 2017
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white_goodman said:
SuperchargedVR6 said:
What's with the 'perceived'? If it felt better put together to you, then it was.

It's funny how people always say X, Y or Z was dire for reliability with absolutely no context.

Do you do any repairs and/or servicing on your vehicles? Or do you just drive them into the ground, wait for bits to inevitably break, and then slag them off for it on a forum?

You say the MK4 reliability was dire, I say my girlfriend's 1.6 MK4 (which I service and maintain) has just passed it's 16th MOT with no advisories. In all of those years, all it's required on top of servicing is, 1 x catalytic converter and 1 x window regulator. Yep, it's a seriously unreliable car.

Corrado's have a known weak sunroof - but blame Rockwell International for that. The spoiler can seize up from lack of maintenance, and that's all I can remember. I had one up to 205,000 miles and it was very reliable. Nothing ever fell off, no break downs, nothing.

I like German cars because I love maintaining and modifying them. They're like Lego to me. I've never got that bug from any other brand of car.
OK. My mk4 was a 2000 2.0 GTi 5 door bought at 7 years old with 67k. Full service history and 12 months MOT. The first thing that I had to change was the starter motor as it was making a funny noise and the front suspension bushes because the front suspension was knocking. Then it started idling poorly, which I never got to the bottom of as it didn't do it all the time and when they plugged it into the diagnostics nothing ever came up. It also used a lot of oil and only did about 20mpg but other than that it ran fine! Every time it rained the alarm went off, so I reverted to not bothering to lock it when it was raining (which was quite a lot in Manchester)! Not long after getting it, the rear doors decided to jam shut, so it was basically a 2 seater for most of my ownership! I had that common problem with the rear wash wipe that got sorted but the last straw was when I took it in for its next MOT and discovered that the brake lights had stopped working and the garage didn't know the cause and quoted me an extortionate figure to diagnose the problem. I traded it in for a new Polo the same time, which was fine actually but I only did 15,000 miles in it and had expected more from a 7 year old VW. I tend to buy at 6-7 years old and haven't had so many issues with any of the other cars that I have bought. Other friends had issues such as water leaks and window regulator problems with their mk4 Golfs (the window regulator being the only common problem that mine didn't suffer from)!

The Corrado VR6 that I had previous to the Golf had a broken sunroof and the heater jammed on hot air only. I also replaced the clutch and HT leads in my short tenure to try and cure an intermittent misfire but this never solved the problem. I can be a bit more forgiving of the Corrado, as it was 12 years old at the time and I enjoyed driving it when it was wasn't misfiring but I have to say it was less reliable and solid-feeling than the older E30 325i that I owned previously to it.

I do look after my cars and service them regularly and address problems as they crop up, so I have rarely been left stranded by the side of the road. I can only recall a broken clutch cable on a Peugeot 205.

By "perceived" quality I mean that you sit in a mk4 Golf, close the door and look at and touch the surfaces in the interior and it "feels" very well-built. In contrast, the Subaru that I owned later felt like a 20 year old Nissan Bluebird taxi cab to sit in but everything worked and nothing ever fell off!
Unlucky! I'll give you that one. The 2.0 GTI is widely regarded as THE worst 'GTI' VW ever made smile I would put money on the starter motor being a pattern one fitted by a previous owner. Was it making a high pitched whine after the engine fired up? I've seen so many pattern starters that have defective centrifugal mechanisms that don't let go quick enough after start, hence the noise.

Common for seldom used rear door locks to seize up. Seen that on a few cars, not just VWs/Germans. Rear wash wipe, yeah had that one on mine. Fairly simple fix.

Overall not seeing anything horrendously wrong there to be honest, minor niggles and cheap to fix if you know your way around a Golf.

The Corrado, well, yeah they're old and yep, I had the heater cable thing on mine too, but again, a simple fix. The Sunroof is a one time fix by using the more reliable Golf mechanism/subframe instead, but you need to be 'in the know' to know that unfortunately, otherwise dealers charge you a £1000 to put a new known crap one back in. Interesting. My E30s felt considerably older and more tired than my Corrado, but my old 525i on the other hand, absolute tank!

The MK4 had a decent interior (better than the MK5's) - providing previous owners hadn't messed with it fitting stereos and speakers, snapping clips, not replacing them, things then creak and rattle and give the next owner a bad impression of the car. In fact, previous bodgers are indeed what give a car a bad name for people new to the model / marque.

Yeah Subarus are a very utilitarian, but more fragile mechanically than German cars I found, especially when tuned. The mechanical limits are far easier to find.

white_goodman

Original Poster:

4,042 posts

190 months

Friday 17th February 2017
quotequote all
SuperchargedVR6 said:
Unlucky! I'll give you that one. The 2.0 GTI is widely regarded as THE worst 'GTI' VW ever made smile I would put money on the starter motor being a pattern one fitted by a previous owner. Was it making a high pitched whine after the engine fired up? I've seen so many pattern starters that have defective centrifugal mechanisms that don't let go quick enough after start, hence the noise.

Common for seldom used rear door locks to seize up. Seen that on a few cars, not just VWs/Germans. Rear wash wipe, yeah had that one on mine. Fairly simple fix.

Overall not seeing anything horrendously wrong there to be honest, minor niggles and cheap to fix if you know your way around a Golf.

The Corrado, well, yeah they're old and yep, I had the heater cable thing on mine too, but again, a simple fix. The Sunroof is a one time fix by using the more reliable Golf mechanism/subframe instead, but you need to be 'in the know' to know that unfortunately, otherwise dealers charge you a £1000 to put a new known crap one back in. Interesting. My E30s felt considerably older and more tired than my Corrado, but my old 525i on the other hand, absolute tank!

The MK4 had a decent interior (better than the MK5's) - providing previous owners hadn't messed with it fitting stereos and speakers, snapping clips, not replacing them, things then creak and rattle and give the next owner a bad impression of the car. In fact, previous bodgers are indeed what give a car a bad name for people new to the model / marque.

Yeah Subarus are a very utilitarian, but more fragile mechanically than German cars I found, especially when tuned. The mechanical limits are far easier to find.
Yeah. I realise that the 2.0 was not the one to get now. My budget only stretched to a 1.6 or a 2.0 at the time and the GTi interior, looks and badge drew me in that direction. It still makes me laugh that the two convertibles that I have owned (MX5 and E30 325i Convertible) didn't leak and yet my hardtop Corrado and mk4 Golf did! I have since driven a few 1.8T mk4 Golfs and TDI 130s and they are considerably nicer. The other car that I was looking at instead of the Golf was a mk1 Focus and in hindsight I kind of regretted not getting the Focus but at the time, I saw myself as more of a VW than a Ford man. The mk4 "GTi" tainted my experience of owning a Golf GTi but I've driven a few mk5s and they are in a different league and definitely on my to own list.

I did briefly look at a mk4 R32 before I got my WRX, as I still liked the look of the car and the interior (and most of all the noise) but the WRX just offered more performance per pound. Mine was a 2004 "Blobeye", one of the last with the 2 litre Boxer engine and I kept it standard, so no mechanical issues for me in 3 years of ownership but yeah, I get that the 1.8T VAG unit is highly tuneable. smile

Wills2

22,669 posts

174 months

Friday 17th February 2017
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Audemars said:
German cars are the most unreliable cars too.
Why have I had 10 BMWs and driven over 500k miles and never had an issue? Strange eh?



darthmarmite

47 posts

86 months

Saturday 18th February 2017
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In my opinion it's down do the perception of luxury and expense. A significant proportion of the younger generation today (of which at 23 years old, I am one) are obsessed with looks and the way that they appear to others, just look at the huge surge in designer brands, make up and cosmetic surgery. Cars are just another extension of this. So many people nowadays would rather pay more to be seen driving something with a BMW, Audi or Mercedes badge on the front. They don't care that it's bottom spec, has the smallest engine and no fun toys to play with, they have the badge and in their mind that's all that counts, that's what they will be seen with and people will associate it with success and wealth. I've seen people who still live with their parents, pay no rent and can barely afford a thing because they spend way more than they can afford a month on leasing/PCPing one of these luxury cars so that when they are driving about, they have the illusion of success. To these people, it doesn't matter that when they have finished 'cruising' the streets, they will return to their single bed in their parents spare room, that's not where people see them; people see them in their car.

Personally, I'd rather spend less and have a better car, with more power, more toys to play with and is actually no where near as common-place as these 'exclusive' and 'luxury' vehicles have become.

Edit: Also bear in mind the current market. A few years back, BMW, Mercedes and Audi didn't have anywhere near the amount of models they do now, whereas before their target market was mainly expensive SUVs or Saloons, they now provide cars of all shapes and sizes from the super-minis like the Audi A1, to the huge 4x4xTank monstrosities that Mercedes are churning out. Take Audi for example, off the top of my head they currently offer the A1, A3, A4, A5, A6, A7, A8, Q1, Q2, Q3, Q5, Q7, TT and R8 with more cars like the 2019 Q4 on their way (this isn't even including the different versions of each car, like the quattro/off road specs, the estates/saloons etc). Add to this, that the way in which leases and PCPs have made them more affordable and lead to a large selection of cut price used models at only a few years old and it's easy to see why there's so many about.

Edited by darthmarmite on Saturday 18th February 06:35

RWD cossie wil

4,295 posts

172 months

Saturday 18th February 2017
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A 5 series is probably the best all round car for the money at the moment IMHO, does everything really well, can fit four big people in comfort, and is still great to drive...

RemaL

24,967 posts

233 months

Saturday 18th February 2017
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I've never owned a german car.

turbobloke

103,742 posts

259 months

Saturday 18th February 2017
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Wills2 said:
Audemars said:
German cars are the most unreliable cars too.
Why have I had 10 BMWs and driven over 500k miles and never had an issue? Strange eh?

That's great news, for you and BMW too I guess.

I've had half a dozen BMWs and had to have a few things fixed over time, nothing that I wouldn't expect to have to fix though.

Stuff wears out with use and sometimes goes pop a bit before, it's only to be expected.

Wills2

22,669 posts

174 months

Saturday 18th February 2017
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turbobloke said:
Wills2 said:
Audemars said:
German cars are the most unreliable cars too.
Why have I had 10 BMWs and driven over 500k miles and never had an issue? Strange eh?

That's great news, for you and BMW too I guess.

I've had half a dozen BMWs and had to have a few things fixed over time, nothing that I wouldn't expect to have to fix though.

Stuff wears out with use and sometimes goes pop a bit before, it's only to be expected.
To be fair to the other cars I've had, I've never had a car in 30 years that has left me by the road or failed to start and get me home.

A part from that stty Fiat! hehe

Audemars

507 posts

97 months

Sunday 19th February 2017
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darthmarmite said:
In my opinion it's down do the perception of luxury and expense. A significant proportion of the younger generation today (of which at 23 years old, I am one) are obsessed with looks and the way that they appear to others, just look at the huge surge in designer brands, make up and cosmetic surgery. Cars are just another extension of this. So many people nowadays would rather pay more to be seen driving something with a BMW, Audi or Mercedes badge on the front. They don't care that it's bottom spec, has the smallest engine and no fun toys to play with, they have the badge and in their mind that's all that counts, that's what they will be seen with and people will associate it with success and wealth. I've seen people who still live with their parents, pay no rent and can barely afford a thing because they spend way more than they can afford a month on leasing/PCPing one of these luxury cars so that when they are driving about, they have the illusion of success. To these people, it doesn't matter that when they have finished 'cruising' the streets, they will return to their single bed in their parents spare room, that's not where people see them; people see them in their car.

Edited by darthmarmite on Saturday 18th February 06:35
100% agree. This phenomenon is not limited to kids though. Its the same for most that finance new cars including the apparent adults on here.