Why the UK obsession with "German" cars?
Discussion
iphonedyou said:
tejr said:
It always makes me laugh when I see a pose-spec cars that has been optioned with factory sport kit, large alloys, but lacks basic things inside like full leather seats, bluetooth or proper climate control.
Bet you it doesn't, though.1. leather
2. Bluetooth
3. alloys
4.climate control dual zone (4zone only for optioned or M5's models).
You must be talking about E60 or pre 5 series.
Previously they were really well built and a class above everything else.
Think about Golf mk2, BMW E30 3 series these cars were in a different league to the competition at the time.
Compare a Polo to almost any other small car and they are (or were) incredible well built, solid.
Ok they cost more but most people would simply feel German cars are 'better' - better made, more robust, solid, last longer etc.
Some of those things remain the same although reliability has come right down mainly due to over complexity and being plagued with warning lights/ electrical problems ( VW and BMW).
Think about Golf mk2, BMW E30 3 series these cars were in a different league to the competition at the time.
Compare a Polo to almost any other small car and they are (or were) incredible well built, solid.
Ok they cost more but most people would simply feel German cars are 'better' - better made, more robust, solid, last longer etc.
Some of those things remain the same although reliability has come right down mainly due to over complexity and being plagued with warning lights/ electrical problems ( VW and BMW).
So far I think I've had just French, German and Italian cars ...
3 x VWs
2 x SEATs
2 x Skodas
3 x Renault
1 x Citroen
2 x Peugeot
1 x Alfa Romeo
A number of these were 'performance' cars, like my Leon Cupra R, Clio 182, Octavia VRS etc, so my buying decision for them came from comparing them to what was comparable and available at the time within my limited budget.
With my current car (VRS 230) there were only a few options in my price bracket which were suitable and unfortunately most of them were German; the only non-Germans were a Focus ST and a Megane 275. The Focus has a reputation for getting stolen without the keys, and the Megane I found too uncompromising for my current commute. But I keep thinking about it ... awesome incredible amazing car.
I've found most of my German cars to be incredibly solid and well built, but admittedly they're a bit boring to drive. The Octavia is a fantastic car, the DSG is great, the engine is capable, but it doesn't excite me ... BUT it does everything I need a car to do, and well. It's a trade off really.
My next car most likely won't be German ... once this is paid off in 3 years time I'll be looking to go Italian, hopefully an Alfa Guilia Veloce. Or if I change jobs with a shorter commute I'll probably swap the VRS for a Megane
3 x VWs
2 x SEATs
2 x Skodas
3 x Renault
1 x Citroen
2 x Peugeot
1 x Alfa Romeo
A number of these were 'performance' cars, like my Leon Cupra R, Clio 182, Octavia VRS etc, so my buying decision for them came from comparing them to what was comparable and available at the time within my limited budget.
With my current car (VRS 230) there were only a few options in my price bracket which were suitable and unfortunately most of them were German; the only non-Germans were a Focus ST and a Megane 275. The Focus has a reputation for getting stolen without the keys, and the Megane I found too uncompromising for my current commute. But I keep thinking about it ... awesome incredible amazing car.
I've found most of my German cars to be incredibly solid and well built, but admittedly they're a bit boring to drive. The Octavia is a fantastic car, the DSG is great, the engine is capable, but it doesn't excite me ... BUT it does everything I need a car to do, and well. It's a trade off really.
My next car most likely won't be German ... once this is paid off in 3 years time I'll be looking to go Italian, hopefully an Alfa Guilia Veloce. Or if I change jobs with a shorter commute I'll probably swap the VRS for a Megane
As has been said above, and quite ably demonstrated by eltax91's conversation, I think it's less about quality, though it is in there somewhere, and more about image. The German brands are all about aspiration and how, if you've got one on the drive, you've somehow made it or are at least successful in one way or another and it's part of the social conciousness in this day and age where image appears to be everything (the increasingly narcissistic selfie generation).
Personally I avoid German cars, I've had a C-Class and if the image didn't put me off them then that did, nothing wrong with the car but there wasn't anything that I vaguely liked about it either. These days I'll go out of my way to avoid any German car, mind you that's mainly down to the fact that there's a lot more non German cars that I want to have a go in (and frankly I don't like being subsumed into the masses, my car choice lets me stand out from the crowd while enjoying the act of driving).
Personally I avoid German cars, I've had a C-Class and if the image didn't put me off them then that did, nothing wrong with the car but there wasn't anything that I vaguely liked about it either. These days I'll go out of my way to avoid any German car, mind you that's mainly down to the fact that there's a lot more non German cars that I want to have a go in (and frankly I don't like being subsumed into the masses, my car choice lets me stand out from the crowd while enjoying the act of driving).
Welshbeef said:
5 series come with the following as standard throughout the range
1. leather
2. Bluetooth
3. alloys
4.climate control dual zone (4zone only for optioned or M5's models).
You must be talking about E60 or pre 5 series.
As do the 3 series and Mercedes cars. Oh, and you can also include cruise control, sat nav and heated seats in the main. 1. leather
2. Bluetooth
3. alloys
4.climate control dual zone (4zone only for optioned or M5's models).
You must be talking about E60 or pre 5 series.
I think Audis aren't quite as well specced but a modern MB or BMW have all the good stuff already fitted.
I've recently been in a High spec VW Passat instead of my C Class and the only thing I would have wanted out of that in my MB was the adaptive cruise control.
Despite the latest Passat being universally praised (and it is a good car), it is nowhere near as quiet or relaxing as my Mercedes.
Edited by A900ss on Thursday 16th February 08:54
Being affordable and everywhere AND staying 'aspirational' is a pretty hard.
German Makes have done an excellent job of surfing this wave but I don't think it will last forever.
Especially as they are selling to buyers with more fickle brand choices and influences than previous generations.
German Makes have done an excellent job of surfing this wave but I don't think it will last forever.
Especially as they are selling to buyers with more fickle brand choices and influences than previous generations.
All of my Mercedes have been and continue to be, ultra reliable over mega miles, and the service dept of my Mercedes dealer have been excellent over the last 20 years.
I must be the exception to the rule. Having said that I do not like their current offerings, nor do I like BMW and VAG current offerings. In fact I can't think of any new cars I would want to buy apart from maybe a Dacia Duster, so I will stick with 2 older Mercs and hope their reliability stays intact.
I must be the exception to the rule. Having said that I do not like their current offerings, nor do I like BMW and VAG current offerings. In fact I can't think of any new cars I would want to buy apart from maybe a Dacia Duster, so I will stick with 2 older Mercs and hope their reliability stays intact.
Monkeylegend said:
All of my Mercedes have been and continue to be, ultra reliable over mega miles, and the service dept of my Mercedes dealer have been excellent over the last 20 years.
I must be the exception to the rule. Having said that I do not like their current offerings, nor do I like BMW and VAG current offerings. In fact I can't think of any new cars I would want to buy apart from maybe a Dacia Duster, so I will stick with 2 older Mercs and hope their reliability stays intact.
The new SL (Sports light) is very aggressive looking v your version but also devastatingly powerful. I must be the exception to the rule. Having said that I do not like their current offerings, nor do I like BMW and VAG current offerings. In fact I can't think of any new cars I would want to buy apart from maybe a Dacia Duster, so I will stick with 2 older Mercs and hope their reliability stays intact.
I had a slew of BMWs from my early 20s up until, well, now.
It was nothing to do with image, just that you got a very good RWD package along with some nice dynamics and looks for not very much money. This was is an era where BMW were considered to be at their best so arguably, it's not strictly comparable to where they are now.
There will always be people who see it as an image based decision because that is inevitably all that their understanding of the topic will allow them.
It was nothing to do with image, just that you got a very good RWD package along with some nice dynamics and looks for not very much money. This was is an era where BMW were considered to be at their best so arguably, it's not strictly comparable to where they are now.
There will always be people who see it as an image based decision because that is inevitably all that their understanding of the topic will allow them.
The Germans make good stuff.
Thing is in Britian cars are traditionally a luxury items In other places in the world ie Africa, Australia, USA cars traditionally are tool's to get an important Job done.
Germans do quality and luxury. Us Brits did luxury... badly.
Do you want a cheap K-i-t-c-h-e-n or a quality one......
Thing is in Britian cars are traditionally a luxury items In other places in the world ie Africa, Australia, USA cars traditionally are tool's to get an important Job done.
Germans do quality and luxury. Us Brits did luxury... badly.
Do you want a cheap K-i-t-c-h-e-n or a quality one......
The problem i'm having is finding a used non german/flash car with all the same trimmings at a reasonable price, looking for a big estate with a bit of poke and apart from a mondeo tit x which are rare in scotlland and holding their money far too well or a jag xf which in estate form is megabucks the german options tend to offer better value for money with regard to spec. Because top spec used skoda superbs don't come on the used market as often they tend to cost more than an equivelant spec bmw/audi/merc. To me this is a problem being a self employed tradesman as the last time i had a german car and customers seen it the difference in price haggling on jobs was very noticable, a couple actually came out and said you are running an x5, you must be making a lot of profit so you can cut me a better deal, missing out the fact it was a 52 plate with 100k on it. I went back to renault and things returned to normal. I wish renault still brought in the laguna the last ones of those were fantastic.
Frances The Mute said:
I had a slew of BMWs from my early 20s up until, well, now.
It was nothing to do with image, just that you got a very good RWD package along with some nice dynamics and looks for not very much money. This was is an era where BMW were considered to be at their best so arguably, it's not strictly comparable to where they are now.
There will always be people who see it as an image based decision because that is inevitably all that their understanding of the topic will allow them.
Possibly also their halo modelsIt was nothing to do with image, just that you got a very good RWD package along with some nice dynamics and looks for not very much money. This was is an era where BMW were considered to be at their best so arguably, it's not strictly comparable to where they are now.
There will always be people who see it as an image based decision because that is inevitably all that their understanding of the topic will allow them.
M3
M5
M6
I8
I3
X5M
1M
These help drive sales / desirability.
In addition they officially emit so little CO2 relative to power and all cam chains and long service intervals have meant they are a fleet buyers dream + high residuals.
Porsche I mean have they ever built a bad car? So desirable the most motorsport wins of any brand full on racing pedigree fast great looks not cheap/aspirational
German cars must be the dullest cars available. Everything from VW and Audi have always been bland and BMW have gone backwards over the years design wise. Porsches are the ugliest cars you can buy leaving Mercedes as the only passable main German brand.
German cars are the most unreliable cars too.
Not sure why brits have an obsession with them.
As for keeping uo with your neighbours, only the less intelligent do this i.e the majority of the population. A German car outside your terrace house does not impress anybody.
German cars are the most unreliable cars too.
Not sure why brits have an obsession with them.
As for keeping uo with your neighbours, only the less intelligent do this i.e the majority of the population. A German car outside your terrace house does not impress anybody.
Accessibility and finance.
In the past many companies would not have a German car (let's not get into granadas are made in Germany etc) in the list of company car choices.
Low depreciation put them there as they work out cheap to run.
Finance makes them affordable now to pretty much anyone.
Fashion.
A car is like anything else, if it's in fashion then they will be bought, Germans move with fashion, if there's a niche for a new model they won't mess around, they'll build something from an existing platform quickly to satisfy the market needs.
Build quality.
I live outside the UK but visit regularly, the build quality on the higher end German cars are much better than the rest. I rent cars regularly and don't snob rent. I pick depending on my mood, what they have, how flush I am and what's on offer. I've rented everything from Fiat 500s to touregs.
Specification.
In the past the Germans gave you nothing. I'm pretty sure back in 1982 my dad had the choice between yet another Granada 2.3L or BMW 518i. They were pretty much evenly priced for two cars in a different class and the BMW didn't even have front electric windows. Come to think of it I'm not even sure if it had two wing mirrors. Definitely no stereo.
This has all changed now. Even the cheapest white goods come better equipped than an early 80s Audi-BMW-Mercedes.
Feel good factor.
I personally feel better driving a 118d than an insignia. I honestly believe it's a better car with a better driving position even if it's down on power there's plenty for today's traffic. Come to think about it my dad's old 2.9 injection Ghia would struggle to keep up.
Marketing.
They have this to a tee. The quality of German car adverts are way better than the rest. They always have been. Less is more and they don't try too hard to impress. It's like they know they are good so why try too hard.
History.
Hitler and the early idealism of a new world order.. blah... German cars have a history of excellent high end build quality. French cars have a history of being cheap breakable quirkiness. Japanese cars have a history of being grey, dull, sometimes ugly and bland. Swedish cars have the good build quality but weird people buy them.
Snobbery.
Yes, if you know nothing about a car you know you will get instant respect no matter who you are if you pull up in a BM merc audi.
In the past many companies would not have a German car (let's not get into granadas are made in Germany etc) in the list of company car choices.
Low depreciation put them there as they work out cheap to run.
Finance makes them affordable now to pretty much anyone.
Fashion.
A car is like anything else, if it's in fashion then they will be bought, Germans move with fashion, if there's a niche for a new model they won't mess around, they'll build something from an existing platform quickly to satisfy the market needs.
Build quality.
I live outside the UK but visit regularly, the build quality on the higher end German cars are much better than the rest. I rent cars regularly and don't snob rent. I pick depending on my mood, what they have, how flush I am and what's on offer. I've rented everything from Fiat 500s to touregs.
Specification.
In the past the Germans gave you nothing. I'm pretty sure back in 1982 my dad had the choice between yet another Granada 2.3L or BMW 518i. They were pretty much evenly priced for two cars in a different class and the BMW didn't even have front electric windows. Come to think of it I'm not even sure if it had two wing mirrors. Definitely no stereo.
This has all changed now. Even the cheapest white goods come better equipped than an early 80s Audi-BMW-Mercedes.
Feel good factor.
I personally feel better driving a 118d than an insignia. I honestly believe it's a better car with a better driving position even if it's down on power there's plenty for today's traffic. Come to think about it my dad's old 2.9 injection Ghia would struggle to keep up.
Marketing.
They have this to a tee. The quality of German car adverts are way better than the rest. They always have been. Less is more and they don't try too hard to impress. It's like they know they are good so why try too hard.
History.
Hitler and the early idealism of a new world order.. blah... German cars have a history of excellent high end build quality. French cars have a history of being cheap breakable quirkiness. Japanese cars have a history of being grey, dull, sometimes ugly and bland. Swedish cars have the good build quality but weird people buy them.
Snobbery.
Yes, if you know nothing about a car you know you will get instant respect no matter who you are if you pull up in a BM merc audi.
t about what image that portrays. 
Audemars said:
German cars must be the dullest cars available. Everything from VW and Audi have always been bland and BMW have gone backwards over the years design wise. Porsches are the ugliest cars you can buy leaving Mercedes as the only passable main German brand.
German cars are the most unreliable cars too.
Not sure why brits have an obsession with them.
As for keeping uo with your neighbours, only the less intelligent do this i.e the majority of the population. A German car outside your terrace house does not impress anybody.
Can you add your car history/garage to your profile so we can assess the above comments as it might be you've owned loads so fair enough r owned zero or hardly any and had bad luck. German cars are the most unreliable cars too.
Not sure why brits have an obsession with them.
As for keeping uo with your neighbours, only the less intelligent do this i.e the majority of the population. A German car outside your terrace house does not impress anybody.
Nothing new to add really as said above, it's all about perceived quality. Trading off the reputation.... remember those 'If only everything in life was as reliable as a Volkswagen' ads from the 80's? Still in people's minds. German engineering, same as why people pay a premium for Bosch and Neff products (to name but a couple).
Plus there's the aspirational side of it, although it gets funny when you have skinflints in Skodas banging on about German build quality and explaining how many parts it shares with a VW etc. As for the design, well VAG have ripped any fun out of the Seat brand, they all look as dull as the rest of the groups cars now.
Plus there's the aspirational side of it, although it gets funny when you have skinflints in Skodas banging on about German build quality and explaining how many parts it shares with a VW etc. As for the design, well VAG have ripped any fun out of the Seat brand, they all look as dull as the rest of the groups cars now.
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