Why the UK obsession with "German" cars?

[Superflow]

powerstroke said:

Surely if you were buying a car for its engine it would be Japanese or american?? unless you like 4 cylinder diesels!!!

It depends on which engine you have,mine is not a 4 cylinder variant.

[loose cannon]

yonex said:

Can you point me towards an American or French car that has a straight six, RWD half decent residuals etc

There won't be any because people like you won't buy them as it doesn't have the right badge

[Fittster]

yonex said:

powerstroke said:

Surely if you were buying a car for its engine it would be Japanese or american?? unless you like 4 cylinder diesels!!!

Can you point me towards an American or French car that has a straight six, RWD half decent residuals etc

Why have you swapped "Japanese or american" to "American or French"?

There does seem to be a certain amount of twisting the criteria until the only answer is the one the poster wants to hear.

I don't see how the German firms offer products that are obviously better than those offered by Jag, Honda, Lexus and to an extent Volvo.

Edited by Fittster on Wednesday 22 February 13:09

[anonymous-user]

Fittster said:

Why have you swapped "Japanese or american" to "American or French"?

There does seem to be a certain amount of twisting the criteria until the only answer is the one the poster wants to hear.

I don't see how the German firms offer products that are obviously better than those offered by Jag, Honda, Lexus and to an extent Volvo.

What is it about other people's criteria that causes this problem? What have Volvo, Jaguar, Honda or Lexus got to offer in comparison to a 140 that would better suit my needs and be more fun?

V40, Civic Type R, F-Pace or LFA?

[RobM77]

I'm another person who has no particular affinity to German cars - I've owned French, British, Japanese and Italian cars, and currently have a German daily driver and an Italian track car, but since the age of 25 with only one exception (an Elise) my daily drivers have all been German, specifically BMWs. As Yonex says above, there's simply no other choice. I want rear drive, a manual gearbox, a decent driving position, no throttle delay at the top of the throttle pedal, a low CofG, good towing ability, folding rear seats and carrying capacity and a low roof (mid chest height or lower) for lifting heavy stuff onto the roof. My choices are vanishingly small; Lexus don't offer manual gearboxes anymore, Mercedes make them very rare indeed amd they tend to wallow, and everything else is front drive and really tall, which in my mind is just a waste of time. Yes, we now have the Jag XE and the new Alfa, but my budget is sub £10k. My 3 series is genuinely entertaining to drive down a twisty road and it satisfies all the aforementioned criteria. Nothing else does. What's more, I'm not obsessed with what country a car is made in, unlike the previous poster who instantly wrote off the 5 series, and yet for some odd reasons sung the praises of the remarkably similar Jag XF - I've met load of people who do that, which I just find odd.

[Ahbefive]

RobM77 said:

I want rear drive, a manual gearbox, a decent driving position, no throttle delay at the top of the throttle pedal

My 3 series is genuinely entertaining to drive down a twisty road

I love how you love your 320d. Hilarious.

[Trabi601]

Fittster said:

Why have you swapped "Japanese or american" to "American or French"?

There does seem to be a certain amount of twisting the criteria until the only answer is the one the poster wants to hear.

I don't see how the German firms offer products that are obviously better than those offered by Jag, Honda, Lexus and to an extent Volvo.

Jaguar have reliability issues and constantly appear to be a generation behind with regards to in-car tech, Japanese diesels are generally awful (because the home market has largely banned them) and Volvo can't get 180bhp through the front wheels without spinning all the power away.

[RobM77]

Ahbefive said:

RobM77 said:

I want rear drive, a manual gearbox, a decent driving position, no throttle delay at the top of the throttle pedal

My 3 series is genuinely entertaining to drive down a twisty road

I love how you love your 320d. Hilarious.

From your perspective I'm sure it is, but think a little broader and it doesn't seem that weird. The engine for me is a tiny part of how much I enjoy a car. Why would the engine make any difference to a 50-60mph drive down a B road? Genuinely - why? Provided you have the torque to balance a car in the corners and enough acceleration to exit corners in a satisfying way from 50 back up to 60, it doesn't matter what engine you have. Top of pedal response is essential for this sort of driving, which BMW petrol engines don't have and haven't had for some years now; turbo lag with the diesels is less of an issue when cornering due to the way turbos work if you keep the revs up. This is not just my pie in the sky opinion, I've driven virtually the whole range and owned a lot of different 3 series, E36, E46 and E90 with everything from the 2.0d engine up to the 3.0 straight six (four of them!). The only differences I can detect in cornering enjoyment fall into three categories: M Sport, SE and M3.

Edited by RobM77 on Thursday 23 February 11:07

[loose cannon]

BMW's don't generally have a great driving position because the pedals are always well off centre if a manual box

[loose cannon]

Trabi601 said:

Jaguar have reliability issues and constantly appear to be a generation behind with regards to in-car tech, Japanese diesels are generally awful (because the home market has largely banned them) and Volvo can't get 180bhp through the front wheels without spinning all the power away.

Judging by all the broken BMW stories I keep reading about I can't see they are any more reliable than anything else tbh
Infact I'm sure an old h reg rover 216 is far more reliable no

[RobM77]

loose cannon said:

BMW's don't generally have a great driving position because the pedals are always well off centre if a manual box

They're central if you include the clutch foot rest, so I guess it depends if you drive mainly hovering over the clutch or with your foot on the rest.

Edited to add: With Germany having such large distances between cities and such good public transport in the cities, it's reasonable to assume that their cars are biased for longer distance journeys.

Edited by RobM77 on Thursday 23 February 10:10

[anonymous-user]

loose cannon said:

BMW's don't generally have a great driving position because the pedals are always well off centre if a manual box

The same can be said of many, many cars to be fair.

[RobM77]

yonex said:

loose cannon said:

BMW's don't generally have a great driving position because the pedals are always well off centre if a manual box

The same can be said of many, many cars to be fair.

See above - it's a bit misleading, because the pedals are not offset if you include the clutch foot rest, which is where your left foot spends most of its time if you drive out of town.

When I mentioned the driving position I was mainly referring to the fact that 'sit up and beg' is optional in BMWs, and many German cars actually (Porsche being the only exception). Most cars sold these days give me nasty shoulder pain because if I adjust the seat so it's as close to the pedals as I can bear, the steering wheel is still such a long way away that I have to strain forwards to reach it. I had a little Pug courtesy car a few years ago for just two days and I couldn't windsurf for a couple of weeks after driving it!

[courty]

Thread revival:

Even the underprivileged prefer German cars apparently..
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-kent-5372492...

[Lester H]

It’s residual, it’s entered collective consciousness from the time as long as three decades ago, when Merc really were a cut above and well heeled folk bought them, or BMW if they were more sporty. The cars were over engineered and just felt better than Ford/Vauxhall/Peugeot, though the latter were perceived as posh in the 60s. VWs were the first mainstream car, if overpriced, that didn’t rust- well, not for a long time till one day you looked at the fuel filler! Then the front wheel arch, and your neighbour with an A4 cried “snap!” The reputation has continued, and outlived its truth. But mainstream makers would give a lot for these prestige badges.

Edited by Lester H on Monday 10th August 22:01

[HazzaT]

In terms of performance, outside of Jag and Alfa who else offers cars that offer what the Germans do in everyday usable packages in the UK? Ford offer the Mustang but that's one car in a sea of M3s, M5s, C63s and RS Audis. If you have a lot of cash and want a fast, modern daily drivable car then the Germans are really your first port of call with Jag and Alfa offering what are regarded as left field options even if they might be better/more fun to drive. I mean technically a Mondeo or 508 might be in the same size class as a 5 Series but they're not really comparable.

[Skodapondy]

Badge snobbery is a peculiar trait of us Brits. I tried pointing out to a colleague that his A1 was mostly the same bits as my Fabia for a few grand less I was a "tight bd" and his was the better badge.

We in this country are obsessed with what is on the drive and how new it is and if it's German all the better. For me I'm not bothered what car I've got as long as its a good car.

[Neil1323bolts]

Skodapondy said:

Badge snobbery aside

We in this country are obsessed with what is on the drive and how new it is and if it's German all the better. For me I'm not bothered what car I've got as long as its a good car.

I totally agree with you , Trouble is a lot of the German cars are good cars , so it’s a difficult argument to back up , for the record I drive a Yaris and I personally did not get on with the German cars I’ve owned , would love to try an m2 though !

[Skodapondy]

Considering my past is various Austin Rover and Peugeot products choosing Skoda and its proven VW bits seemed sensible.

[Wooda80]

Ah yes, the German car companies would be nothing without the UK market and its 'badge snobs' on the 'PCP hamster wheel'

If only they were as highly regarded in every other country in the world, who knows, they might have to build factories on nearly every continent to satisfy demand. Crazy thought - would never happen