Why the UK obsession with "German" cars?
Discussion
I'm not anti-german car. I like driving cars that are different and not common on the road.
I've driven Alfas for the last 17 years. I love them for all their faults and quirks. I currently have a Brera, Mito and 147 and enjoy all of them for different reasons.
I do love a Porsche though and would run even a standard 718 with a PDK box quite happily.
I've driven Alfas for the last 17 years. I love them for all their faults and quirks. I currently have a Brera, Mito and 147 and enjoy all of them for different reasons.
I do love a Porsche though and would run even a standard 718 with a PDK box quite happily.
This is interesting.
I think one smart thing that the Germans do with these cars is appeal to both enthusiasts who want a particular car for a specific reason and to ordinary folk who want it for all the reasons people mentioned in this thread (badge, perceived quality etc).
Certain models from these German makers are best in class, at least sometimes when you consider everything as a package. Some of them are not that good - but they still sell because of the badge and because there are enough of the good ones.
You should never bash people for the cars they choose. Cars are really a personal taste and something that is irrelevant for some might be important for others. I get to drive a lot of different cars - I almost always find something interesting with all of them, even the perceived "boring" ones.
Say I want to buy a small saloon. Say I do 30k miles per year and I also really enjoy driving. Say I do not have enough money to manage more than one car. Say I have decent pay. What car do I buy? Well one thought exercise might be:
In reality the closest that comes to the Germans in most of these scenarios is probably Volvo, then Jaguar.
I think one smart thing that the Germans do with these cars is appeal to both enthusiasts who want a particular car for a specific reason and to ordinary folk who want it for all the reasons people mentioned in this thread (badge, perceived quality etc).
Certain models from these German makers are best in class, at least sometimes when you consider everything as a package. Some of them are not that good - but they still sell because of the badge and because there are enough of the good ones.
You should never bash people for the cars they choose. Cars are really a personal taste and something that is irrelevant for some might be important for others. I get to drive a lot of different cars - I almost always find something interesting with all of them, even the perceived "boring" ones.
Say I want to buy a small saloon. Say I do 30k miles per year and I also really enjoy driving. Say I do not have enough money to manage more than one car. Say I have decent pay. What car do I buy? Well one thought exercise might be:
- So many miles = diesel (probably excludes most Asian and American brands right here)
- It needs to be really comfortable and the interior needs to be a nice place to be. You are spending a lot of time with this interior. This excludes most Asian and American brands and cheap French + Italian models. We are left with Audi, Mercedes, BMW, Volvo (ignoring shareholdings), Jaguar, Range Rover, maybe Citroen, Peugeot, Alfa
- You really like driving, so you want the car to be somewhat engaging even if it is a saloon. You also want a more classic interior and don't want a spaceship look - exit the French.
- You want the car to be somewhat reliable, you use it a lot. You hear Alfas used to have reliability issues but that they have been fixed in latest models...hmm... so you go and test drive a Giulia. Wow..the driving experience is as good as it gets in a saloon car, but what's this.. oh no..the interior is not as good as it looks in the pictures..and the infotainment system is actually pretty crappy .. what a shame, you would be spending so much time in this car. If you also want a bit of power ... well the diesels stop at 190HP.
- Jaguar, everyone tells you they are fantastic driving machines. But wait... isn't Jaguar owned by Jaguar Land Rover? You read that Jaguar Land Rover is in serious financial trouble and is probably going to be sold again. Hmm.. not really confidence inspiring.
- But still, you should totally still go to the dealership to test drive a Jag, at least it is British! Oh wait... it's owned by an Indian company.
- I know! Volvo are stylish and they have class and are comfortable and the interior is good. You go and test drive one... Oh but you already had a taste of that driving experience from Alfa and Jaguar... this is simply not like that, but you want that driving experience!
- Enter the Germans - first you go to VW because it is cheaper then find they lack some oomph
- You move over to Mercedes, BMW, Audi. You want a more classical looking interior, strong but economical diesel, good driving experience and preferably real wheel drive.
- You go ahead and buy a 330d. The driving feel is not quite as good as the Giulia..but it is awfully damn close and more power. The infotainment system is not quite as good as that in the A4...but it is awfully damn close. The interior quality and comfort..well nothing to separate that A4, C Class and 3 Series. Perhaps... just perhaps the C Class is best but it is basically not possible to distinguish.
- Oh no..I missed that Mondeo. Wait, I know a friend who has the latest Mondeo Vignale, You go see the car to see if you made a mistake in your purchase. No...no you haven't...You happily drive back to your place in your 330d.
In reality the closest that comes to the Germans in most of these scenarios is probably Volvo, then Jaguar.
Edited by iulian7 on Monday 10th August 22:16
Cars are a complex combination of a myriad of things, and which car we all prefer is down to our own equally complex priorities. I’ve owned a huge variety of cars with FWD, 4WD, and RWD; with weights from 490kg right up to 1800kg +. Engines with 4, 6 and 8 cylinders fuelled by diesel and petrol. Performance from 0-100 in 5 seconds right up to a pedestrian 0-60 in 8 seconds. With one exception, I have really liked them all, despite them all being so different from each other.I thought it was because German quality is the best in the world and only Germany makes well made cars.
Cayenne 958 GTS still under warranty. Apparently this isn't covered either despite being very well documented.
Obviously I just don't get it. My 22 year old RAV4 and my 15 year old Lexus are still on their original switches.
Cayenne 958 GTS still under warranty. Apparently this isn't covered either despite being very well documented.
Obviously I just don't get it. My 22 year old RAV4 and my 15 year old Lexus are still on their original switches.
Certainly for many in the UK the badge will play a huge part in the appeal. I have met people who would take a bottom of the range BMW over a top end Ford/Vauxhaull/Renault etc, purely because of the badge.
I suppose in my mind, there are certain go to type options. For example if I want a hot hatch, I'd go for a RenaultSport or it would be one of my first considerations if I'm in that market. Hence I've owned and continue to own a number of them.
When I was looking at a change in car type, I wanted something big, comfortable and high powered and my initial thoughts were BMW M5 or M6. As it happens I found in a position to buy a very low mileage Merc CLS63 and never looked back. My daily car shortly after was an E Class and now an S Class. None of which are even remotely new but they wear their miles and age well. I'm not convinced I'd buy a 12 year old Focus or Megane and expect it to feel quite the same although I may be wrong.
For me, big comfortable saloons appeal from the likes of Mercedes and BMW.
I suppose in my mind, there are certain go to type options. For example if I want a hot hatch, I'd go for a RenaultSport or it would be one of my first considerations if I'm in that market. Hence I've owned and continue to own a number of them.
When I was looking at a change in car type, I wanted something big, comfortable and high powered and my initial thoughts were BMW M5 or M6. As it happens I found in a position to buy a very low mileage Merc CLS63 and never looked back. My daily car shortly after was an E Class and now an S Class. None of which are even remotely new but they wear their miles and age well. I'm not convinced I'd buy a 12 year old Focus or Megane and expect it to feel quite the same although I may be wrong.
For me, big comfortable saloons appeal from the likes of Mercedes and BMW.
I was just talking personally 
Surely it’s a trickle down effect. Their flagship performance models tend to lead the way, and although the models further down range are not necessarily better than the competition, the flagship models have done their job from a brand precedence perspective.
Surely it’s a trickle down effect. Their flagship performance models tend to lead the way, and although the models further down range are not necessarily better than the competition, the flagship models have done their job from a brand precedence perspective.
Certainly not a UK only phenomenon. In this side of the pond we do have the inexplicable popularity of domestic pickups but the Germans dominate the luxury/ performance car segment.
Where they have made less impact is in the SUV area. Nobody buys estates here but the SUV market has a lot of Japanese and Korean product. SUVs outsell conventional cars by a huge margin.
Porsche has done reasonably well with the Macan though
Where they have made less impact is in the SUV area. Nobody buys estates here but the SUV market has a lot of Japanese and Korean product. SUVs outsell conventional cars by a huge margin.
Porsche has done reasonably well with the Macan though
Alex_225 said:
Certainly for many in the UK the badge will play a huge part in the appeal. I have met people who would take a bottom of the range BMW over a top end Ford/Vauxhaull/Renault etc, purely because of the badge.
In reality though, what is wrong with that? The Germans dont make a bad car - in fact no one does these days apart from say, Mitsubishi with their Mirage - ...but really it's just transport. Having a bottom rung A Class isn't as bad as many PHers think. Yes, it has a little renault diesel engine but again, what's wrong with that? It's a lot of reverse snobbery where you can sneer at people because they bought for the badge. Its their choice, and if they're happy with the car who cares? I get some might say oh I'm better I drive a Mercedes and you have a Vauxhall or whatever but that's just ignorance and nothing against the car they have.
Sporty looking german cars look much better than most other marques. I know looks are subjective, but Ford, French and Asian cars are way behind in that sense, never mind the actual performance variations.
Yes a 320d/A4/c class may not be exciting to PHers, but the the M/s line/amg line look way better than the equivalent mondeos, peugeots etc. I can understand why average joe with no interest in performance is drawn to them.
Plus 190BHP and decent level of torque is more than enough for someone not really into cars.
I have no real skin in this as I drive a Civic, which looks mediocre at best, but I'm happy with cheap, reliable motoring for now.
Yes a 320d/A4/c class may not be exciting to PHers, but the the M/s line/amg line look way better than the equivalent mondeos, peugeots etc. I can understand why average joe with no interest in performance is drawn to them.
Plus 190BHP and decent level of torque is more than enough for someone not really into cars.
I have no real skin in this as I drive a Civic, which looks mediocre at best, but I'm happy with cheap, reliable motoring for now.
Edited by b80 on Tuesday 11th August 11:39
CDB1983 said:
I thought it was because German quality is the best in the world and only Germany makes well made cars.
Cayenne 958 GTS still under warranty. Apparently this isn't covered either despite being very well documented.
Obviously I just don't get it. My 22 year old RAV4 and my 15 year old Lexus are still on their original switches.
What causes that to happen. Do they just fall to bits with use?Cayenne 958 GTS still under warranty. Apparently this isn't covered either despite being very well documented.
Obviously I just don't get it. My 22 year old RAV4 and my 15 year old Lexus are still on their original switches.
Lester H said:
The cars were over engineered and just felt better than Ford/Vauxhall/Peugeot,
Half of that is still true though. While you'd be on dodgy ground trying to argue that the engineering quality is any better, an Audi or BMW does still feel better to sit in, and to interact with than a Ford/Vauxhall/Peugeot, or a Japanese car. Clever use of more expensive looking (and feeling) materials in the most visible areas, and of course the key touch points, more effective sound insulation, slicker, more responsive infotainment, and a perceptibly greater feeling of solidity. Yes, this is superficial stuff, and the statistics tell us that over x years, or x,000 miles, the car won't be any more reliable or durable, but it ensures massive showroom appeal, and that's what sells cars. Edited by Lester H on Monday 10th August 22:01
Driving enthusiasts will consider how the car handles and drives, and the accountant types among us will look at depreciation and running costs. But these aren't in the majority. The majority will be far more influenced by how the car makes them feel.
CDB1983 said:
I thought it was because German quality is the best in the world and only Germany makes well made cars.
This is what's known as a "strawman" argument. Critics of German cars reckon people buy them because they're the most reliable cars, and then laugh at those people because German cars are not the most reliable cars. Truth is, most people I know with German cars haven't bought them for this reason at all.CDB1983 said:
Obviously I just don't get it. My 22 year old RAV4 and my 15 year old Lexus are still on their original switches.
Everyone knows that Toyota build the best cars. I've had two and they were faultless, plus a faultless Toyota engine in my high mileage 2-Eleven. See above though - people don't buy German cars for reliability.RobM77 said:
Everyone knows that Toyota build the best cars. I've had two and they were faultless, plus a faultless Toyota engine in my high mileage 2-Eleven. See above though - people don't buy German cars for reliability.The Lexus is in retirement for when the Cayenne goes at some point and the RAV4 is my "every day" going to the shops, carrying building supplies, massive dog, general abuse vehicle. Can't beat Japanese (Toyota products) for quality.
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