Why the UK obsession with "German" cars?

[tejr]

Welshbeef said:

5 series come with the following as standard throughout the range
1. leather
2. Bluetooth
3. alloys
4.climate control dual zone (4zone only for optioned or M5's models).
You must be talking about E60 or pre 5 series.

Yes you are correct, I was referring to the e60 / e90 generation.

[NAS]

I keep on finding it interesting that Ford and Vauxhall are seen as UK, not German brands.

Even though Ford of Europe is based in Cologne and Vauxhall in Rüsselsheim.....

[Swampy1982]

Dog Star said:

Has anyone in here actually got a new version of any of these "low spec" German cars, with their "perceived" quality?

I've not personally noticed a right lot of missing equipment in any I've had, and while I rather like (and have owned quite a few) Pugs, for example, they certainly aren't anything like as well made.

Anyway - must dash - got to go and check out the neighbours and what they've got, eh?

I've got a MY2017 A4 base spec, only option being I changed the wheels (different design £295) and adaptive headlights (£300)

It has everything I need, nothing more, nothing less. Digital radio, sat nav (through my phone) wireless phone charging, bluetooth phone, bluetooth music, whatsapp support, spottify support, xenon headlights, auto dimming mirror etc

I could have had a top spec mondeo vignale, but the only real spec difference that I would have meaningfully used was the heated seats.

Its a company car

Because of the CO2, the Mondeo would have cost me about £80 more net

The Audi costs me £25 more than the insignia it replaces.

The Audi is clearly the logical, financial choice.

The question is why wouldn't you get the German car in this scenario? I would bet a lot of the 3 series, A4 and C classes on the road are company cars.

[C70R]

TooMany2cvs said:

C70R said:

When the 'best of British' in the early 90s represented a Cavalier or Sierra

The equivalent Germans were better built and more reliable by far than their Brit counterparts

But the Ascona/Vectra and Sierra _were_ German, as were the Astra/Kadett and Escort.

Pedantry doesn't change the fact that Joe Average was "buying British" when he went to a Vauxhall or Ford showroom in the 80s/90s.

[Alex_225]

For many German car buyers they wouldn't give the likes of Renault, Ford etc. a look because a German car is considered to be superior. A poverty spec BMW/Audi/Merc some would consider more prestigious than a top end Vauxhall, based on nothing but the image.

My daily car is a 14 year old E Class diesel, it seems to get more appreciation from people than the French hatches I've owned from brand new! I've even had someone comment on, 'My fancy car' yet it only cost me £4k and has 110k on the clock!!

As mentioned as well, there are some sectors where German is just the default option. If you want a saloon car, in my mind it's a German rear wheel drive E Class or 5 series etc. That said if I want a hot hatch I think of either a fast French car or a fast Ford of some kind. Those kinds of perceptions probably go some way too understanding their popularity.

[Harji]

I once hired a new BMW e60 for a few days and thought it was a class above anything I had driven. I wasn't so much the gimmicks but the way it drove an handled. My 320d did it's job up and down the motorway, but once when actually going somewhere for fun (Devon) I found that for a diesel estate, it actually handled far better than so called sports cars from other marques.

Certainly with BMW, they do tend to excel in the areas of the car that you don't see.

[C70R]

NAS said:

I keep on finding it interesting that Ford and Vauxhall are seen as UK, not German brands.

Even though Ford of Europe is based in Cologne and Vauxhall in Rüsselsheim.....

Because the whole crux of this thread comes down to how cars are marketed. If you were to take a nationally-representative poll in the UK, the VAST majority would call Ford/Vauxhall British BRANDS, irrespective of where their holding company is based.

When Ford and Vauxhall have spent almost all of their existence marketing their UKDM cars as "British", I don't understand how people on PH can still pretend to be surprised by Joe Average thinking they are British cars.
Or am I missing something that's on-trend about saying "Oh Lord. Can you believe how silly Joe Average is? Why would they choose a BMW because it's German, when they could have a Vauxhall which is REALLY German too? Oh, they are so poorly educated about car manufacturers' parent companies." Read that back, and try to work out who the wally is...

[alangla]

Blaster72 said:

Ford Fiesta - Spanish/German - the ST at least is built at Niehl in Cologne
Vauxhall Corsa - German/Spanish - some built at Eisenach
Ford Focus - German (Saarlouis)
VW Golf - German (Wolfsburg)
Nissan Qashqai - British (Sunderland)
Vauxhall Astra - British (Ellesmere Port)/Polish
VW Polo - Spanish (Navarra)
MINI - British (Cowley) /Dutch (Born-Nedcar apparently)
Merc C-Class - German (Bremen)
Audi A3 - German/Hungarian (Ingolstadt/Gyor)

So the "British" cars can be German, Spanish, Dutch or Polish, but largely German and the "German" cars can be Spanish or Hungarian! At least the "Japanese" car is British.

Source for the above was the Wikipedia page for the current generation of each model (6th gen for Fiesta), apologies if there's any errors.

[WokingWedger]

OldGermanHeaps said:

Because top spec used skoda superbs don't come on the used market as often they tend to cost more than an equivelant spec bmw/audi/merc.

This

I was looking for a couple of year old Superb Estate with a decent engine.

Couldn't find anything suitable so bought a 3 year old A6 Avant 3.0 cheaper

[RizzoTheRat]

I'd have thought on PH there's probably a bias towards BMW and Mercedes as they're the biggest manufacturers of rear wheel drive family cars.

I never really get the love for Audi though. Other than the S/RS models surely you can pretty much get the same thing from VW/Skoda/Seat for less money?

[CrgT16]

I buy mostly german cars because nothing else gets close for what I want in an everyday car. I want RWD, good driving dynamics and good interior quality. For me BMW fits that bill nicely, and I don't care what image it portraits.

Off course they can be unreliable as anything else, but what should I buy that has RWD, family practicality, good performance and reasonable handling and is not german, BMW in my case? There simply is nothing out there. Lexus? Jaguar? Lexus are not the most entertaining drives. Jaguar, well could fit the bill but poor aftersales and price it is just nor worth it. A new in the market is the Alfa Romeo with the Giulia, another contender as I had an Alfa in the past and was very reliable.

The problem in my example is that to buy the Jag or Alfa it would cost me a bit more than the BMW, why should I waste my money in a product that at best is of similar quality, if not inferior... no brainer to me and nothing to do with badge snobbery.

It is crazy to buy a Mondeo over a 3 series when the 3 series is cheaper and is better built. The perceived quality matters as I like to be in a nice cabin with nice materials as I spend quite some time on my car. The fact I can have all that in one package and at a cheaper price makes it really an easy choice for me.

Sure, the argument of base spec 116i vs a better spec Astra I get. I would always prefer the mid to top spec on a a car anyway so I wouldn't get a 116i base spec just to be driving a BMW, that approach is also not very smart. But each one to their own, it is good to have a choice.

[Dog Star]

swisstoni said:

He's talking about now, not since new. I very much doubt his SL is still worth the best part of £100k.

My lols still stand - they aren't depreciating now since they dropped like anvils onto neutron stars from new. That's no different to saying that a used Citroen XM is great with little depreciation. It's because they become worthless instantly.

[TurboHatchback]

RizzoTheRat said:

I never really get the love for Audi though. Other than the S/RS models surely you can pretty much get the same thing from VW/Skoda/Seat for less money?

The Golf/Polo derived models yes but otherwise no. The Audi A4/A6/A8 platforms are unique to Audi, they have longitudinal engines and can come with Torsen AWD which is very different to Haldex. The engine range is quite different also, looking at the C6 for example there were 3.2 V6, 4.2 V8, 3.0l V6 TFSI (supercharged), and 3.0l V6 TDI options available (among others). The Passat, Superb, Octavia etc were only available with 4 cylinder engines (3.6 VR6 excepted). The Audi is also a much nicer place to sit. Look higher up the range and Audi would do you an A8L with a 450bhp 6.0l W12 or 322bhp 4.2l V8 TDI, the cheaper VAG brands offer nothing to compete with that.

Personally I think high spec Audis make superb road cars though I wouldn't own a FWD model or one with less that 6 cylinders.

[RizzoTheRat]

Yeah, I was thinking more at the A3/A4 end of the scale. I don't think they really do a good enough job of differentiating between the brands.

[swisstoni]

Dog Star said:

swisstoni said:

He's talking about now, not since new. I very much doubt his SL is still worth the best part of £100k.

My lols still stand - they aren't depreciating now since they dropped like anvils onto neutron stars from new. That's no different to saying that a used Citroen XM is great with little depreciation. It's because they become worthless instantly.

Sigh.

[anonymous-user]

In Italy, (Trentino where I am staying at this moment) 8/10 cars are VAG
I just checked, a 09/10 A3 goes for €13k+
Very expens

[Agent XXX]

People that think german cars are of a 'superior quality' to others are deluded t*ats

[Meridius]

A portion of British population obsessed with being flashy and seeming well off, see the same with houses, clothes, jewellery, holidays, a German car is another thing to add to that list. Nothing really wrong with it, its just all done rather garishly.

[philmots]

Although the German cars I've had are good to drive, they've been some of the least reliable, (Until I bought an XF!)

Had my fair share of Renaults and Renault Sports, Peugeot etc with no issues.

[NAS]

C70R said:

Read that back, and try to work out who the wally is...

I am not British so meant what I said when I said that I find it interesting.

Ford (in Europe) and Vauxhall are German and have been for a very long time. On the continent, they are seen as German. Not in the UK. I didn't know they were actively marketed as British, and have been reading UK (CAR, Top gear, EVO etc.) magazines for the last 20 years. I don't recall a specific reference in any ad to them being British.

If it is so common, surely you would be able to provide an example?