The Greateast Mass Production Engines Ever Made?

[RBH58]

Great engines guys. Not decent ones or "not bad for a diesel"

[Welshbeef]

brickwall said:

Surely the Honda F20C 2.0 litre in the S2000.

Screaming 8,500rpm red line, 120bhp/litre, in a mass-produced sports car. Even the latest V10 R8 Plus has a lower specific output.

All in 1999.

One question did it actually achieve this a bit like the E36 M3 Evo quoted at a set rate but didn't come close to its actual claimed number?


Also how does it produce so much BHP/Ltr reliably in a relatively cheap ie not supercar mass produced car? And why have they not come close to replicate it

[Exige77]

brickwall said:

Surely the Honda F20C 2.0 litre in the S2000.

Screaming 8,500rpm red line, 120bhp/litre, in a mass-produced sports car. Even the latest V10 R8 Plus has a lower specific output.

All in 1999.

9000 RPM

[Sim89]

Welshbeef said:

One question did it actually achieve this a bit like the E36 M3 Evo quoted at a set rate but didn't come close to its actual claimed number?


Also how does it produce so much BHP/Ltr reliably in a relatively cheap ie not supercar mass produced car? And why have they not come close to replicate it

Very much achieved it. Simply, it produces so much power / litre because of the variable valve timing system, it's relatively long (84mm) stroke and the ability to rev high - this is inherent in the design of the cylinder head and the quantity of air that it can flow . The surrounding aspects of it are purely engineering excellence (fibre-reinforced liners, coated pistons, roller followers, forged aluminium pistons & rods, volumetric flow and design of the intake manifold etc) that allow it to achieve this criteria.

F20C is only similar to the K20A in the fact it has VTEC and 4 cylinders. The F20C was designed specifically for the S2000, which was only ever going to be a relatively 'low volume' production car. Hence the F20C had a more 'hands on' engineering development history. You see replications of this technology in the K20A, but it is much more modest and optimized for volume production and therefore exhibits a slightly different cylinder head (lower flow volume), cylinder linings (lower cost), internal combustion components, oil pump and intake manifold.

So overall they did come close to replicating it for a 'mass production' product in the K20A, which is a superb engine by all accounts and gives 90% of the performance of the F20C. But it is a trade off with production costs.

Edited by Sim89 on Sunday 19th February 11:46

[GSalt]

RBH58 said:

Great engines guys. Not decent ones or "not bad for a diesel"

So far it's been mostly high capacity "boys toys" engines with Greatness being defined by various categories on a Top Trumps card.

Humble four-pots have enabled more people to access motoring in a car. Not as sexy or PH, but unrecognised everyday workhorses.

And surely there must be a defining two-stroke engine for all those scooters, bikes, tuk-tuks, etc?


Something bullet-proof that can do 100,000 miles in conditions from the Arctic to the Sahara on minimal maintenance and can then be repaired when it does have a hiccup using a screwdriver, a mallet, duct tape and baling string - that's a great engine. Not something turbo'd with fragile European electrics that get a sniffle on a damp day and insist on a laptop and a degree to perform basic servicing.


Anyway, having suggested two four-pots in my previous post (Standard 4, Coventry Climax FW) I will suggest another engine this time that's a bit bigger and maybe a bit more PH:

Jaguar XK6
in continuous production from 1949 to 1992 and found itself in family saloons, sports cars, racing cars and light tanks.

[PurpleAki]

twizellb said:

PurpleAki said:

twizellb said:

Fair play if you own one, i was thinking you might have been a gobste taking a cheap shot
Whats been the problems?
They are a cracking engine when fit but you have my sympathy if yours is giving you problems

Head gasket, valves guides, cylinder no.6 went.

I love it when it works. It's makes more noise on the overrun that my Lamborghini!

Sorry to hear that, I hope you get it sorted.
I had finger follower problems with my first one and swore I would'nt touch another but went back after a 4.5 cerb.
My second Tuscan was fairly trouble free and they are a nice engine if you get yours sorted.
Do you have the standard exhaust sleeved?
Wish I still had mine

It's got sleeved carbon cans.

Sounds ridiculous frankly. But I wouldn't have it any other way.

[Nik da Greek]

The power of triangles



Mazda rotary... here's one I broke earlier...

Not technically the "wankel" most people refer to it as. Felix wankel's engine was the DKM where the housing span around the rotor. The motor NSU brought to mass production and licensed to other firms such as Mazda was Dr Paschke's Kreiskolbenmotor where the rotor span in the housing. Herr Dr wankel was not impressed, alleging "you have turned my race horse into a plough mare". Mazda turned that plough horse into a thoroughbred again. Three moving parts... 1.3 litres... 450 reliable horsepowerz

[twoblacklines]

BMW M54 springs to mind.

Honda B/K series'

Mercedes V12's.

[Saabaholic]

Robatr0n said:

Beardo said:

SAAB B234R/B235R are worth a shout.

B234, yes. B235 no.

The B235s die thanks to sludging issues and half-arsed breather systems. They're also good for a max of 300bhp thanks to the economic design. The B234R is a damn sight heavier but was built properly and could withstand over 500bhp if you wanted to whack a big turbo on one of them.

Another vote here for the B204 / B234 series Saab engines.
Designed from the ground up to support 400+ BHP, but tuned to 220bhp max on production cars.
Can be tuned for literally a few quid (Hence why all the vauxhall guys are now using them), and the Trionic management systems are now almost opensource. So anyone with a laptop can tune them.
Mines been at 360bhp for 230,000 miles now and still hauls ass like it was new.

[Saabaholic]

Also a big fan of the PSA V6. 1999 to 2007 ish. 3.0 V6 24v VVT. Typically 210bhp. 236BHP in Clio.

As fitted to the Laguna II, Clio V6, Pug 406 coupé, Citroen C6.
Very compact engine, reliable. VVT, revs to 7k, and good economy.

We have a Laguna II with one. Driven sensibly it will do between 28 and 30mpg weekly. On a motorway at a constant 70 it will get 36mpg. Open air filter fitted and when the VVT kicks in i swear it could wake the dead. Glorious sound !.

Its quite unlike a French engine in that it seems to have Japanese levels of reliability, and lovely refinement anywhere in its power band.

[Saabaholic]

njw1 said:

Oh God no! Harsh, noisy, coarse, camshaft wearing thing. And I like Fords!

CVH, the only engine ever made that consumed Oil faster than it did petrol.
Almost every one on the road was a Smoker.
You just knew when you were following an Orion without even seeing it !.

[Willy Nilly]

lee_erm said:

Willy Nilly said:

Off the top of my head:

B, C and N series Cummins
Fords Powerstar
60 Series Detroit
3406 Cat
4.9, 6.6, 7.4 and 8.4 litre Sisu, not sure if the 16.8 V12 has earned its stripes yet
Those FL air cooled Deutz engines
That will do for a start.

I can't think of anything better than screaming up the Stelvio Pass in a Ford 8240 fitted with a Powerstar motor.

I've been up Stevio twice on my bike and it's not that great a road. Nobody screams up there because it's too tight. It would be ok in a go-cart

dme123 said:

I don't know, the spine tingling sound of a Cat 3406 powered pump draining liquid st from a silage ditch always turns me on.

I've seen some weird diesel apologists on here over the years, but listing a load of light industrial diesel engines under a thread about great production engines on a motoring enthusiasts forum takes the biscuit

I prefer the sound of big engines working hard to most car engines. The 3406e I drove had a nice growl to it when it was under load.

[patchb]

Exige77 said:

brickwall said:

Surely the Honda F20C 2.0 litre in the S2000.

Screaming 8,500rpm red line, 120bhp/litre, in a mass-produced sports car. Even the latest V10 R8 Plus has a lower specific output.

All in 1999.

9000 RPM

9200rpm

I have to agree, best engine of any car I've owned, or even driven and by a long way. I did like the 4g63 engine in my Evo 5, and that engine was used in all Evos 1-9 and from 1981 in the Lancer EX 2000 Turbo.

[Welshbeef]

patchb said:

Exige77 said:

brickwall said:

Surely the Honda F20C 2.0 litre in the S2000.

Screaming 8,500rpm red line, 120bhp/litre, in a mass-produced sports car. Even the latest V10 R8 Plus has a lower specific output.

All in 1999.

9000 RPM

9200rpm

I have to agree, best engine of any car I've owned, or even driven and by a long way. I did like the 4g63 engine in my Evo 5, and that engine was used in all Evos 1-9 and from 1981 in the Lancer EX 2000 Turbo.

Don't spoon modify these Honda vetec to up to 14,000 rpm?

[Welshbeef]

[redacted]

[alabbasi]

Small block chevy

[BricktopST205]

Although hardly mass production but based on a mass production engine the Pulsar VZ-R N1 was breifly the highest output N/A production engine before the F20C (123 BHP/Litre). 197 HP from 1.6 liters. It makes the EK9 Type-R look like a puppy in comparison.

Infact the SR20 was such a versatile engine for Nissan. Quad throttle bodied in the Pulsar GTi-R, longitudinally mounted and turbocharged in the Silvia's to high revving screamers in the Nissan Pulsar(Almera) and Primera.

Edited by BricktopST205 on Sunday 19th February 19:44

[RATATTAK]

dme123 said:

One of the worlds premier power plants for two decades, and the only V12 available to your non supercar purchaser for much of it. Capable of high mileage if maintained by a real mechanic and not you typical bodger way out of his comfort zone too.

But it wasn't well liked when it was new and it really isn't now ... 14mpg max. killed it

[RATATTAK]

Another vote for the Chevy small block

[Total loss]

AAGR said:

Will everyone who thinks there was any connection between the Ford 'Kent' engine and the Cosworth DFV F1 engine go back to school to learn something, or to reliable book and internet sources.

So what was the FVA which used a Kent block ? It was the proof of concept Ford asked Cosworth to build when Cosworth went to Ford with the DFV plan. Satisfied with the FVA, Ford gave the go ahead for the DFV and Cosworth developed/improved the FVA head into the DFV head.
Is none of that true ?