The Greateast Mass Production Engines Ever Made?
Discussion
Vitorio said:
sunbeam alpine said:
As the Busso has already been taken, I'd nominate the Alfa Nord four cylinder. In production for about 50 years in various forms, easily tuneable, and sounding lovely. Personal favourite would be the 1750.
I really want a nord engine powered something some day.
PH'er Dinkel comes down regularly from Utrecht for a run.
wolfracesonic said:
As mentioned, the criteria need to be tightened: Maybe the greatest is not some 8000rpm, 500bhp screamer but some anonymous family motor lump, designed on strict budget, that can be produced easily and cheaply and that will run till the end of time with zero maintenance.
Aye that's an interesting one. VAG PD 1.9, a bit niggly if improperly maintained (like most VAG engines), but there are plenty of 10-15 year old taxis pootling about with 300k+ on them.
Toyota D4D 2.0, same as the above
Ford early 00s mid sized motors, seriously why is there so many ratty mk1 focuses still reliabily running about, both the tdci and 1.6-2.0 petrols seem pretty bulletproof.
Toyota XV10 2.0, powers what I believe is still the most common car in the US, the Toyota camry. Inefficient and sluggish but they go forever with bugger all maintenance
AMG M156 V8
It is fabulous in everything it went in, turning mundane cars into great cars but, IMO it is at its best in the C63 which compliments it with the lightest curb-weight of the bunch. It seems better yet in later cars with MCT rather than 7G Auto. The C63 is no lightweight, but I bet shedding a couple of hundred KG's would make it even more incredible.
I enjoyed it also in the CLK63.
There were a few changes, but then this engine became the M159 in the SLS. If you thirst for more, it's not difficult to make some of these changes to an M156.
BMW N54
Good from the factory but I rate this for its tuning potential. It reminds me of the Toyota 2JZ-GTE so it was instantly easy to get along with. Its downsides mind you were fueling component issues such as fuel pumps & injectors, and it was also not spared the dreaded BMW electric water-pump issues either. Let's also not forget that the integral wastegate flaps loosen too over time and flap about like a penny in a tin can. The fix? New turbochargers, at which point, for the cost and subsequent "engine out", you may as well upgrade them.
I personally can't believe the little amount of 335i and 135i cars that I see on the road now. So perhaps the lure of fairly cheap used ones and massive tuning potential plus RWD has lead to many being stuffed by people without experience. If so, that's a shame.
It is fabulous in everything it went in, turning mundane cars into great cars but, IMO it is at its best in the C63 which compliments it with the lightest curb-weight of the bunch. It seems better yet in later cars with MCT rather than 7G Auto. The C63 is no lightweight, but I bet shedding a couple of hundred KG's would make it even more incredible.
I enjoyed it also in the CLK63.
There were a few changes, but then this engine became the M159 in the SLS. If you thirst for more, it's not difficult to make some of these changes to an M156.
BMW N54
Good from the factory but I rate this for its tuning potential. It reminds me of the Toyota 2JZ-GTE so it was instantly easy to get along with. Its downsides mind you were fueling component issues such as fuel pumps & injectors, and it was also not spared the dreaded BMW electric water-pump issues either. Let's also not forget that the integral wastegate flaps loosen too over time and flap about like a penny in a tin can. The fix? New turbochargers, at which point, for the cost and subsequent "engine out", you may as well upgrade them.
I personally can't believe the little amount of 335i and 135i cars that I see on the road now. So perhaps the lure of fairly cheap used ones and massive tuning potential plus RWD has lead to many being stuffed by people without experience. If so, that's a shame.
Edited by Swole on Friday 17th February 09:13
Swole said:
AMG M156 V8
It is fabulous in everything it went in, turning mundane cars into great cars but, IMO it is at its best in the C63 which compliments it with the lightest curb-weight of the bunch. It seems better yet in later cars with MCT rather than 7G Auto. The C63 is no lightweight, but I bet shedding a couple of hundred KG's would make it even more incredible.
I enjoyed it also in the CLK63.
There were a few changes, but then this engine became the M159 in the SLS. If you thirst for more, it's not difficult to make some of these changes to an M156.
BMW N54
Good from the factory but I rate this for its tuning potential. It reminds me of the Toyota 2JZ-GTE so it was instantly easy to get along with. Its downsides mind you were fueling component issues such as fuel pumps & injectors, and it was also not spared the dreaded BMW electric water-pump issues either. Let's also not forget that the integral wastegate flaps loosen too over time and flap about like a penny in a tin can. The fix? New turbochargers, at which point, for the cost and subsequent "engine out", you may as well upgrade them.
I personally can't believe the little amount of 335i and 135i cars that I see on the road now. So perhaps the lure of fairly cheap used ones and massive tuning potential plus RWD has lead to many being stuffed by people without experience. If so, that's a shame.
Do you know why the AMG M156 has different power outputs in each vehicle (by some margin ) It is fabulous in everything it went in, turning mundane cars into great cars but, IMO it is at its best in the C63 which compliments it with the lightest curb-weight of the bunch. It seems better yet in later cars with MCT rather than 7G Auto. The C63 is no lightweight, but I bet shedding a couple of hundred KG's would make it even more incredible.
I enjoyed it also in the CLK63.
There were a few changes, but then this engine became the M159 in the SLS. If you thirst for more, it's not difficult to make some of these changes to an M156.
BMW N54
Good from the factory but I rate this for its tuning potential. It reminds me of the Toyota 2JZ-GTE so it was instantly easy to get along with. Its downsides mind you were fueling component issues such as fuel pumps & injectors, and it was also not spared the dreaded BMW electric water-pump issues either. Let's also not forget that the integral wastegate flaps loosen too over time and flap about like a penny in a tin can. The fix? New turbochargers, at which point, for the cost and subsequent "engine out", you may as well upgrade them.
I personally can't believe the little amount of 335i and 135i cars that I see on the road now. So perhaps the lure of fairly cheap used ones and massive tuning potential plus RWD has lead to many being stuffed by people without experience. If so, that's a shame.
Edited by Swole on Friday 17th February 09:13
Welshbeef said:
GreatGranny said:
VW 1.9 TDi PD engine
Highest thermal efficient engine per cc ever made into production. How about the Lupo 3L/Audi A2 1.2 TDI PD? 125mpg average world record as it did the round the world challenge?
My votes would be for the 1.9 PD, Toyotas 4A-GE (I missed a chance of a Corolla Levin with the 20v variant) and Vauxhalls CX20E/Red top.
Well there's going to be lots of opinions on this and there's definately more than one.
I think we should also consider engine's from their given era rather than the high tech later stuff (often less characterful but efficient).
From the early 80's to early 90's the Audi 5 cyl from the UR to the RS2 has to be one of the greats from that period. Full of sound, loads of low down torue from the 20v and bulletproof.
I think we should also consider engine's from their given era rather than the high tech later stuff (often less characterful but efficient).
From the early 80's to early 90's the Audi 5 cyl from the UR to the RS2 has to be one of the greats from that period. Full of sound, loads of low down torue from the 20v and bulletproof.
Welshbeef said:
Do you know why the AMG M156 has different power outputs in each vehicle (by some margin )
You can find some good Wiki if you want to go into depth but, it would appear up to around the 570hp mark, a lot of it was due to ECU and exhaust. It's fairly well documented now that a 460(ish)hp M156 with an ECU tune and a set of long-tube, tubular exhaust manifold can reach around 570hp. The ECU side seem restricted only to the amount that the throttle body is allowed to open, something like 60% or some such for the C63, 70% for the Performance Pack & 80% for the 507. Those figures might not be correct, but they are staggered at least. You'll then probably find that the E63 opened 90% but then the restriction becomes the final 10% plus cast exhaust manifolds.Past that, I believe there are a some engine changes to achieve the 590hp in SLS GT, and far more to achieve 630hp in the SLS Black Series. From what I know, these aren't especially cost effective or retro-fittable easily and therefore people seem to supercharge thereafter.
I guess it's that old story of limiting power to protect the cars above it. If it's speed that you want, why would people buy an SLS when a C63 will crap all over it. Doesn't stop the tuners doing it though
So, allowed to breathe, an M156 is a 570hp engine.
A favourite book I have about legendary car engines by John Simister:
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Legendary-Engines-Inner-S...
It's a few years old, so unfortunately may be out of print.
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Legendary-Engines-Inner-S...
It's a few years old, so unfortunately may be out of print.
My vote goes to the BMW M62 (4.4 V8).
I've owned two cars fitted with this engine (E38 BMW 740i and L322 Range Rover). Whilst they are very different cars, the engine suited them both down to the ground. Powerful, flexible, smooth, and half-decent fuel economy (for a V8!)
It's not a bad looking lump, either. I especially like the way it really "fills" the engine bay of whatever car it's installed in.
I've owned two cars fitted with this engine (E38 BMW 740i and L322 Range Rover). Whilst they are very different cars, the engine suited them both down to the ground. Powerful, flexible, smooth, and half-decent fuel economy (for a V8!)
It's not a bad looking lump, either.
I especially like the way it really "fills" the engine bay of whatever car it's installed in.BMW S65 4.0 V8.
Sounds amazing in my car with its new exhaust.
And in GT3...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MoINTS7p7_8
Sounds amazing in my car with its new exhaust.
And in GT3...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MoINTS7p7_8
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