£10k gbox bill on 4yr old Audi. Was it ever fit for purpose?

£10k gbox bill on 4yr old Audi. Was it ever fit for purpose?

Author
Discussion

Bunfighter

37,010 posts

210 months

Monday 20th February 2017
quotequote all
djc206 said:
My B8 RS4 had its S tronic gearbox replaced. £14k apparently, under warranty so not a concern for me. Funny thing was it was only making a slight clunk going into and out of fourth under load, I didn't think for a second that they'd authorise a full replacement tha quickly.
I imagine they'd class it as a characteristic of that box..

jamoor

14,506 posts

214 months

Monday 20th February 2017
quotequote all
Bunfighter said:
djc206 said:
My B8 RS4 had its S tronic gearbox replaced. £14k apparently, under warranty so not a concern for me. Funny thing was it was only making a slight clunk going into and out of fourth under load, I didn't think for a second that they'd authorise a full replacement tha quickly.
I imagine they'd class it as a characteristic of that box..
of a fked box you mean hehe

sjgreen

8 posts

86 months

Monday 20th February 2017
quotequote all
My previous B8 S4 (was stolen) had a similar issue. Audi wanted 9K for a new box.

Took it to an indy Audi specialist near me (VAG Bolton) who diagnosed it as a circuit board fault which Audi make a repair kit for as it is a known fault. £500 part. £380 for labor.

Problem solved + my third party warranty covered the cost.


RoyMacDonald

13 posts

104 months

Monday 20th February 2017
quotequote all
I don't know about Audi's I'm a Volvo guy, but normally these auto gearboxes run software that prevents them from suffering excessive torque loadings that are beyond their capability to use regardless of any map the engine is running.

So I would be very surprised if the remap had any affect on the gearbox.

Roy

BigLion

1,497 posts

98 months

Monday 20th February 2017
quotequote all
RoyMacDonald said:
I don't know about Audi's I'm a Volvo guy, but normally these auto gearboxes run software that prevents them from suffering excessive torque loadings that are beyond their capability to use regardless of any map the engine is running.

So I would be very surprised if the remap had any affect on the gearbox.

Roy
I would have thought a remap can overwrite the gearbox software - at least it does in BMW DCT's.

OldGermanHeaps

3,801 posts

177 months

Tuesday 21st February 2017
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And how would the gearbox know to limit torque given that it's the engine ecu that calculates the torque value, and that calculation is no longer valid due to the increased baseline fuel pressure meaning that injection quantity is higher for each stroke than the programmed torque curve is expecting. Also the gear specific torque limiters are one of the maps in the engine ecu, notthe gearbox ecu and tuners often tweak those. Like it or not, remaps are awesom but the do put additional strain on components. My diff bearings on my altea are staring to whine at 65k and i know exactly why, and i dont blame seat, it is the price i have to pay for a wee hatchback that pins you back in the seat.

scherzkeks

4,460 posts

133 months

Tuesday 21st February 2017
quotequote all
OldGermanHeaps said:
And how would the gearbox know to limit torque given that it's the engine ecu that calculates the torque value, and that calculation is no longer valid due to the increased baseline fuel pressure meaning that injection quantity is higher for each stroke than the programmed torque curve is expecting. Also the gear specific torque limiters are one of the maps in the engine ecu, notthe gearbox ecu and tuners often tweak those. Like it or not, remaps are awesom but the do put additional strain on components. My diff bearings on my altea are staring to whine at 65k and i know exactly why, and i dont blame seat, it is the price i have to pay for a wee hatchback that pins you back in the seat.
The only time I ever had a transmission problem was with a chipped motor. A4 quattro USP (US model), with a 6-sp. manual. At about 65k it went to chocolate and became unshiftable after driving for more than a few minutes.


LocoBlade

7,621 posts

255 months

Tuesday 21st February 2017
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The engine remap won't on it's own change the gearbox software, but you can get the S-Tronic gearboxes remapped separately to speed up shifts and raise the rev limit they shift at (the B8.5 box in the S4 would never shift higher than 6250rpm even though the engine limit was 7k)

Rich_W

12,548 posts

211 months

Tuesday 21st February 2017
quotequote all
sjgreen said:
My previous B8 S4 (was stolen) had a similar issue. Audi wanted 9K for a new box.

Took it to an indy Audi specialist near me (VAG Bolton) who diagnosed it as a circuit board fault which Audi make a repair kit for as it is a known fault. £500 part. £380 for labor.

Problem solved + my third party warranty covered the cost.
That's a fairly catastrophic misdiagnoses. Given that repair has been around for a good few years now laugh

Willy Nilly

12,511 posts

166 months

Tuesday 21st February 2017
quotequote all
OldGermanHeaps said:
And how would the gearbox know to limit torque given that it's the engine ecu that calculates the torque value, and that calculation is no longer valid due to the increased baseline fuel pressure meaning that injection quantity is higher for each stroke than the programmed torque curve is expecting. Also the gear specific torque limiters are one of the maps in the engine ecu, notthe gearbox ecu and tuners often tweak those. Like it or not, remaps are awesom but the do put additional strain on components. My diff bearings on my altea are staring to whine at 65k and i know exactly why, and i dont blame seat, it is the price i have to pay for a wee hatchback that pins you back in the seat.
Torque sensor on the input shaft.

OldGermanHeaps

3,801 posts

177 months

Tuesday 21st February 2017
quotequote all
Willy Nilly said:
Torque sensor on the input shaft.
Are you sure? Never come across an actual piezo torque sensor in a gearbox before, they are too delicate. In the dsg boxes i have seen in bits there is a couple of hall effect input shaft speed sensors (cant measure torque, only rpm), a clutch pack oil temp sensor, fluid pressure sensors for the k1 and k2 actuators, and a few other speed, pressure, temperature and multiplexer linear travel sensor, no torque sensor in the admittedly older ones i have seen the guts of. On the dsg skodas i have had a play with winols, the instantaneous torque value is calculated by the engine ecu and broadcast over the high speed canbus to the asr and transmission modules, and either of those can request the engine ecu to reduce torque output for gearchanges or to limit wheelspin etc, but the engine ecu also has hard torque limiter maps that override the other requests and smoke limiter maps etc, and once uou have turned up the wick in other areas it's these that hold back power gains and they need to be tweaked. An example where a remap can put undue strain is, on some mercs the asr throws a fault code and puts the vehicle in limp mode if the ecu tells it that the engine is putting out over 400nm for over a certain number of milliseconds, so the normal method of increasing requested rail pressure and iq is no good as the engine knows about the extra fuel and takes it into account for its torque calculation which causes the asr to throw a wobbler. A way round that is to keep the requested rail pressure standard but adjust the sensor calibration offset so while the rail pressure at the pump is higher and the engine is outputting over 400nm in reality, the ecu doesn't know about it so it cant grass itself up to the skid police and sends a lower calculated torque value. Another way a remap can put extra strain on a gearbox.

Edited by OldGermanHeaps on Tuesday 21st February 23:52

phib

4,464 posts

258 months

Wednesday 22nd February 2017
quotequote all
Was there any update from the op ?

Just interested

Phib

CraigT007

Original Poster:

48 posts

132 months

Wednesday 22nd February 2017
quotequote all
Update: Audi dealer has had discussions with Audi UK, who have agreed to 'review the case', based on the fact it's had a FSH from authorised dealers in the past, plus it's my 3rd Audi. ? (whatever the 'case', Audi UK have had a good opportunity to say no, and they didn't)

Audi dealer had to drop an email to Audi UK listing the car, fault, history etc for Audi UK to review. Dealer has been advised that the replacement option is a non starter. I can't/won't be paying a bill of this magnitude. I've asked the question of what will happen if I continue to drive it like this, will it remain the same, get worse, seize? (I've not had a response)

I expect to hear back at some point this week.

In the meantime I've discussed the issue with the recommended transmission specialist Mackies, in Glasgow. They can cover the repair on the box but need to drive and diagnose the fault(s) then will provide a price. They are familiar with the boxes and they have suggested a worst case bill of £4k for the repair of 'things that are replaceable'. They also know of the size of bills Audi charging for their only 'repair: a complete gearbox replacement: they guessed at £8-10k)

In one way or another, to fix the car, I will be a few grand out of pocket, but the fact that Audi UK have agreed to review the (my) case, does have a little warm glow of some form of contribution will be 'considered'. As much as I'd have liked to have seen the actual email sent to Audi and the rhetoric contained within, I fear there's a lot of influence will be based on this. I don't know.

Next course of action will be determined on the call from Audi dealer to me.

I will update with the Audi response, ultimate gearbox fix and cost.

phib

4,464 posts

258 months

Wednesday 22nd February 2017
quotequote all
CraigT007 said:
Update: Audi dealer has had discussions with Audi UK, who have agreed to 'review the case', based on the fact it's had a FSH from authorised dealers in the past, plus it's my 3rd Audi. ? (whatever the 'case', Audi UK have had a good opportunity to say no, and they didn't)

Audi dealer had to drop an email to Audi UK listing the car, fault, history etc for Audi UK to review. Dealer has been advised that the replacement option is a non starter. I can't/won't be paying a bill of this magnitude. I've asked the question of what will happen if I continue to drive it like this, will it remain the same, get worse, seize? (I've not had a response)

I expect to hear back at some point this week.

In the meantime I've discussed the issue with the recommended transmission specialist Mackies, in Glasgow. They can cover the repair on the box but need to drive and diagnose the fault(s) then will provide a price. They are familiar with the boxes and they have suggested a worst case bill of £4k for the repair of 'things that are replaceable'. They also know of the size of bills Audi charging for their only 'repair: a complete gearbox replacement: they guessed at £8-10k)

In one way or another, to fix the car, I will be a few grand out of pocket, but the fact that Audi UK have agreed to review the (my) case, does have a little warm glow of some form of contribution will be 'considered'. As much as I'd have liked to have seen the actual email sent to Audi and the rhetoric contained within, I fear there's a lot of influence will be based on this. I don't know.

Next course of action will be determined on the call from Audi dealer to me.

I will update with the Audi response, ultimate gearbox fix and cost.
Thanks, interesting reading. There is nothing wrong with mine and ideally I would keep it another 2 years. Tempted to put something like a warranty direct warranty on it for piece of mind

I hope you get a result out of audi

Phib

Uncle John

4,271 posts

190 months

Wednesday 22nd February 2017
quotequote all
Slightly off topic but related, would recommend Warranty Direct as they covered a 1.5k bill when the torque convertor on my Discovery auto box went wonky.

Alucidnation

16,810 posts

169 months

Wednesday 22nd February 2017
quotequote all
Audi also take take the age of the owner into account, thinking that if they help you out with this one, you are more likely to purchase from them again in the future.

Good luck and keep us updated!

Bunfighter

37,010 posts

210 months

Wednesday 22nd February 2017
quotequote all
CraigT007 said:
Update: Audi dealer has had discussions with Audi UK, who have agreed to 'review the case', based on the fact it's had a FSH from authorised dealers in the past, plus it's my 3rd Audi. ? (whatever the 'case', Audi UK have had a good opportunity to say no, and they didn't)

Audi dealer had to drop an email to Audi UK listing the car, fault, history etc for Audi UK to review. Dealer has been advised that the replacement option is a non starter. I can't/won't be paying a bill of this magnitude. I've asked the question of what will happen if I continue to drive it like this, will it remain the same, get worse, seize? (I've not had a response)

I expect to hear back at some point this week.

In the meantime I've discussed the issue with the recommended transmission specialist Mackies, in Glasgow. They can cover the repair on the box but need to drive and diagnose the fault(s) then will provide a price. They are familiar with the boxes and they have suggested a worst case bill of £4k for the repair of 'things that are replaceable'. They also know of the size of bills Audi charging for their only 'repair: a complete gearbox replacement: they guessed at £8-10k)

In one way or another, to fix the car, I will be a few grand out of pocket, but the fact that Audi UK have agreed to review the (my) case, does have a little warm glow of some form of contribution will be 'considered'. As much as I'd have liked to have seen the actual email sent to Audi and the rhetoric contained within, I fear there's a lot of influence will be based on this. I don't know.

Next course of action will be determined on the call from Audi dealer to me.

I will update with the Audi response, ultimate gearbox fix and cost.
Sounds like knowing the likely cost of Audi's bill they simply half it for a win/win the business. I bet it's a <2k fix really to them!

toastyhamster

1,660 posts

95 months

Wednesday 22nd February 2017
quotequote all
I miss my B8 3.0TDi, feel I might have dodged the s-tronic bullet, but the Audi bullet took a chunk of flesh with it before it went.

80k miles (6 years old) and at 78-80k saw replacement/refurb of:

DPF
EGR Valve
Turbo

Also front hubs and discs warped. Bottom of front wings rusting. Rear load cover not staying in place. Drivers side vanity light not working (no voltage). Occasional jerk from the gearbox, but it did that for the lifetime of the car.

Rear diff then failed (Audi quoted 5k to replace), got a 2nd hand unit for 200 Euros from Latvia, got a good Indy to fit it, then drove it straight to a nearby garage to trade it in.

For a DSG Golf rolleyes


csd19

2,170 posts

116 months

Thursday 23rd February 2017
quotequote all
CraigT007 said:
Update: Audi dealer has had discussions with Audi UK, who have agreed to 'review the case', based on the fact it's had a FSH from authorised dealers in the past, plus it's my 3rd Audi. ? (whatever the 'case', Audi UK have had a good opportunity to say no, and they didn't)

Audi dealer had to drop an email to Audi UK listing the car, fault, history etc for Audi UK to review. Dealer has been advised that the replacement option is a non starter. I can't/won't be paying a bill of this magnitude. I've asked the question of what will happen if I continue to drive it like this, will it remain the same, get worse, seize? (I've not had a response)

I expect to hear back at some point this week.

In the meantime I've discussed the issue with the recommended transmission specialist Mackies, in Glasgow. They can cover the repair on the box but need to drive and diagnose the fault(s) then will provide a price. They are familiar with the boxes and they have suggested a worst case bill of £4k for the repair of 'things that are replaceable'. They also know of the size of bills Audi charging for their only 'repair: a complete gearbox replacement: they guessed at £8-10k)

In one way or another, to fix the car, I will be a few grand out of pocket, but the fact that Audi UK have agreed to review the (my) case, does have a little warm glow of some form of contribution will be 'considered'. As much as I'd have liked to have seen the actual email sent to Audi and the rhetoric contained within, I fear there's a lot of influence will be based on this. I don't know.

Next course of action will be determined on the call from Audi dealer to me.

I will update with the Audi response, ultimate gearbox fix and cost.
Was nothing mentioned regarding the fact the garage had changed the gearbox fluid not long before it started playing up? Autos can become very erratic with the wrong oil and/or oil level.

CraigT007

Original Poster:

48 posts

132 months

Wednesday 15th March 2017
quotequote all
csd19 said:
Was nothing mentioned regarding the fact the garage had changed the gearbox fluid not long before it started playing up? Autos can become very erratic with the wrong oil and/or oil level.
General update:
Audi UK advise yesterday that due to map/chip-tune, they wont be contributing. It's taken until then to tell me this, despite knowing about the map from the outset.

As for the oil change: For many years, like many people, I rely upon the main (approved) dealer advising me of what the car needs: Wrong assumption. Audi have advised me that the strict adherence to the service schedules AND the works undertaken at service visits is the owners sole responsibility.

Audi dealer is silent, Audi UK are not recognising that it could have been wrong or lack of oil.

Mackies Transmissions in Glasgow will be doing the repair, their quote of £4.9k is still a bitter pill, but this will be 2Nr replacement clutches and complete mechatronics unit. confidence for repair is 95%, because they've done several before, including the glasgow traffic cops fully liveried A4 3.0tdi !

parts will be ordered next week. in the meantime, the car is on Audi forecourt waiting on parts.