£10k gbox bill on 4yr old Audi. Was it ever fit for purpose?
Discussion
djc206 said:
My B8 RS4 had its S tronic gearbox replaced. £14k apparently, under warranty so not a concern for me. Funny thing was it was only making a slight clunk going into and out of fourth under load, I didn't think for a second that they'd authorise a full replacement tha quickly.
I imagine they'd class it as a characteristic of that box..Bunfighter said:
djc206 said:
My B8 RS4 had its S tronic gearbox replaced. £14k apparently, under warranty so not a concern for me. Funny thing was it was only making a slight clunk going into and out of fourth under load, I didn't think for a second that they'd authorise a full replacement tha quickly.
I imagine they'd class it as a characteristic of that box..My previous B8 S4 (was stolen) had a similar issue. Audi wanted 9K for a new box.
Took it to an indy Audi specialist near me (VAG Bolton) who diagnosed it as a circuit board fault which Audi make a repair kit for as it is a known fault. £500 part. £380 for labor.
Problem solved + my third party warranty covered the cost.
Took it to an indy Audi specialist near me (VAG Bolton) who diagnosed it as a circuit board fault which Audi make a repair kit for as it is a known fault. £500 part. £380 for labor.
Problem solved + my third party warranty covered the cost.
I don't know about Audi's I'm a Volvo guy, but normally these auto gearboxes run software that prevents them from suffering excessive torque loadings that are beyond their capability to use regardless of any map the engine is running.
So I would be very surprised if the remap had any affect on the gearbox.
Roy
So I would be very surprised if the remap had any affect on the gearbox.
Roy
RoyMacDonald said:
I don't know about Audi's I'm a Volvo guy, but normally these auto gearboxes run software that prevents them from suffering excessive torque loadings that are beyond their capability to use regardless of any map the engine is running.
So I would be very surprised if the remap had any affect on the gearbox.
Roy
I would have thought a remap can overwrite the gearbox software - at least it does in BMW DCT's.So I would be very surprised if the remap had any affect on the gearbox.
Roy
And how would the gearbox know to limit torque given that it's the engine ecu that calculates the torque value, and that calculation is no longer valid due to the increased baseline fuel pressure meaning that injection quantity is higher for each stroke than the programmed torque curve is expecting. Also the gear specific torque limiters are one of the maps in the engine ecu, notthe gearbox ecu and tuners often tweak those. Like it or not, remaps are awesom but the do put additional strain on components. My diff bearings on my altea are staring to whine at 65k and i know exactly why, and i dont blame seat, it is the price i have to pay for a wee hatchback that pins you back in the seat.
OldGermanHeaps said:
And how would the gearbox know to limit torque given that it's the engine ecu that calculates the torque value, and that calculation is no longer valid due to the increased baseline fuel pressure meaning that injection quantity is higher for each stroke than the programmed torque curve is expecting. Also the gear specific torque limiters are one of the maps in the engine ecu, notthe gearbox ecu and tuners often tweak those. Like it or not, remaps are awesom but the do put additional strain on components. My diff bearings on my altea are staring to whine at 65k and i know exactly why, and i dont blame seat, it is the price i have to pay for a wee hatchback that pins you back in the seat.
The only time I ever had a transmission problem was with a chipped motor. A4 quattro USP (US model), with a 6-sp. manual. At about 65k it went to chocolate and became unshiftable after driving for more than a few minutes.sjgreen said:
My previous B8 S4 (was stolen) had a similar issue. Audi wanted 9K for a new box.
Took it to an indy Audi specialist near me (VAG Bolton) who diagnosed it as a circuit board fault which Audi make a repair kit for as it is a known fault. £500 part. £380 for labor.
Problem solved + my third party warranty covered the cost.
That's a fairly catastrophic misdiagnoses. Given that repair has been around for a good few years now Took it to an indy Audi specialist near me (VAG Bolton) who diagnosed it as a circuit board fault which Audi make a repair kit for as it is a known fault. £500 part. £380 for labor.
Problem solved + my third party warranty covered the cost.
OldGermanHeaps said:
And how would the gearbox know to limit torque given that it's the engine ecu that calculates the torque value, and that calculation is no longer valid due to the increased baseline fuel pressure meaning that injection quantity is higher for each stroke than the programmed torque curve is expecting. Also the gear specific torque limiters are one of the maps in the engine ecu, notthe gearbox ecu and tuners often tweak those. Like it or not, remaps are awesom but the do put additional strain on components. My diff bearings on my altea are staring to whine at 65k and i know exactly why, and i dont blame seat, it is the price i have to pay for a wee hatchback that pins you back in the seat.
Torque sensor on the input shaft. Willy Nilly said:
Torque sensor on the input shaft.
Are you sure? Never come across an actual piezo torque sensor in a gearbox before, they are too delicate. In the dsg boxes i have seen in bits there is a couple of hall effect input shaft speed sensors (cant measure torque, only rpm), a clutch pack oil temp sensor, fluid pressure sensors for the k1 and k2 actuators, and a few other speed, pressure, temperature and multiplexer linear travel sensor, no torque sensor in the admittedly older ones i have seen the guts of. On the dsg skodas i have had a play with winols, the instantaneous torque value is calculated by the engine ecu and broadcast over the high speed canbus to the asr and transmission modules, and either of those can request the engine ecu to reduce torque output for gearchanges or to limit wheelspin etc, but the engine ecu also has hard torque limiter maps that override the other requests and smoke limiter maps etc, and once uou have turned up the wick in other areas it's these that hold back power gains and they need to be tweaked. An example where a remap can put undue strain is, on some mercs the asr throws a fault code and puts the vehicle in limp mode if the ecu tells it that the engine is putting out over 400nm for over a certain number of milliseconds, so the normal method of increasing requested rail pressure and iq is no good as the engine knows about the extra fuel and takes it into account for its torque calculation which causes the asr to throw a wobbler. A way round that is to keep the requested rail pressure standard but adjust the sensor calibration offset so while the rail pressure at the pump is higher and the engine is outputting over 400nm in reality, the ecu doesn't know about it so it cant grass itself up to the skid police and sends a lower calculated torque value. Another way a remap can put extra strain on a gearbox.Edited by OldGermanHeaps on Tuesday 21st February 23:52
Update: Audi dealer has had discussions with Audi UK, who have agreed to 'review the case', based on the fact it's had a FSH from authorised dealers in the past, plus it's my 3rd Audi. ? (whatever the 'case', Audi UK have had a good opportunity to say no, and they didn't)
Audi dealer had to drop an email to Audi UK listing the car, fault, history etc for Audi UK to review. Dealer has been advised that the replacement option is a non starter. I can't/won't be paying a bill of this magnitude. I've asked the question of what will happen if I continue to drive it like this, will it remain the same, get worse, seize? (I've not had a response)
I expect to hear back at some point this week.
In the meantime I've discussed the issue with the recommended transmission specialist Mackies, in Glasgow. They can cover the repair on the box but need to drive and diagnose the fault(s) then will provide a price. They are familiar with the boxes and they have suggested a worst case bill of £4k for the repair of 'things that are replaceable'. They also know of the size of bills Audi charging for their only 'repair: a complete gearbox replacement: they guessed at £8-10k)
In one way or another, to fix the car, I will be a few grand out of pocket, but the fact that Audi UK have agreed to review the (my) case, does have a little warm glow of some form of contribution will be 'considered'. As much as I'd have liked to have seen the actual email sent to Audi and the rhetoric contained within, I fear there's a lot of influence will be based on this. I don't know.
Next course of action will be determined on the call from Audi dealer to me.
I will update with the Audi response, ultimate gearbox fix and cost.
Audi dealer had to drop an email to Audi UK listing the car, fault, history etc for Audi UK to review. Dealer has been advised that the replacement option is a non starter. I can't/won't be paying a bill of this magnitude. I've asked the question of what will happen if I continue to drive it like this, will it remain the same, get worse, seize? (I've not had a response)
I expect to hear back at some point this week.
In the meantime I've discussed the issue with the recommended transmission specialist Mackies, in Glasgow. They can cover the repair on the box but need to drive and diagnose the fault(s) then will provide a price. They are familiar with the boxes and they have suggested a worst case bill of £4k for the repair of 'things that are replaceable'. They also know of the size of bills Audi charging for their only 'repair: a complete gearbox replacement: they guessed at £8-10k)
In one way or another, to fix the car, I will be a few grand out of pocket, but the fact that Audi UK have agreed to review the (my) case, does have a little warm glow of some form of contribution will be 'considered'. As much as I'd have liked to have seen the actual email sent to Audi and the rhetoric contained within, I fear there's a lot of influence will be based on this. I don't know.
Next course of action will be determined on the call from Audi dealer to me.
I will update with the Audi response, ultimate gearbox fix and cost.
CraigT007 said:
Update: Audi dealer has had discussions with Audi UK, who have agreed to 'review the case', based on the fact it's had a FSH from authorised dealers in the past, plus it's my 3rd Audi. ? (whatever the 'case', Audi UK have had a good opportunity to say no, and they didn't)
Audi dealer had to drop an email to Audi UK listing the car, fault, history etc for Audi UK to review. Dealer has been advised that the replacement option is a non starter. I can't/won't be paying a bill of this magnitude. I've asked the question of what will happen if I continue to drive it like this, will it remain the same, get worse, seize? (I've not had a response)
I expect to hear back at some point this week.
In the meantime I've discussed the issue with the recommended transmission specialist Mackies, in Glasgow. They can cover the repair on the box but need to drive and diagnose the fault(s) then will provide a price. They are familiar with the boxes and they have suggested a worst case bill of £4k for the repair of 'things that are replaceable'. They also know of the size of bills Audi charging for their only 'repair: a complete gearbox replacement: they guessed at £8-10k)
In one way or another, to fix the car, I will be a few grand out of pocket, but the fact that Audi UK have agreed to review the (my) case, does have a little warm glow of some form of contribution will be 'considered'. As much as I'd have liked to have seen the actual email sent to Audi and the rhetoric contained within, I fear there's a lot of influence will be based on this. I don't know.
Next course of action will be determined on the call from Audi dealer to me.
I will update with the Audi response, ultimate gearbox fix and cost.
Thanks, interesting reading. There is nothing wrong with mine and ideally I would keep it another 2 years. Tempted to put something like a warranty direct warranty on it for piece of mind Audi dealer had to drop an email to Audi UK listing the car, fault, history etc for Audi UK to review. Dealer has been advised that the replacement option is a non starter. I can't/won't be paying a bill of this magnitude. I've asked the question of what will happen if I continue to drive it like this, will it remain the same, get worse, seize? (I've not had a response)
I expect to hear back at some point this week.
In the meantime I've discussed the issue with the recommended transmission specialist Mackies, in Glasgow. They can cover the repair on the box but need to drive and diagnose the fault(s) then will provide a price. They are familiar with the boxes and they have suggested a worst case bill of £4k for the repair of 'things that are replaceable'. They also know of the size of bills Audi charging for their only 'repair: a complete gearbox replacement: they guessed at £8-10k)
In one way or another, to fix the car, I will be a few grand out of pocket, but the fact that Audi UK have agreed to review the (my) case, does have a little warm glow of some form of contribution will be 'considered'. As much as I'd have liked to have seen the actual email sent to Audi and the rhetoric contained within, I fear there's a lot of influence will be based on this. I don't know.
Next course of action will be determined on the call from Audi dealer to me.
I will update with the Audi response, ultimate gearbox fix and cost.
I hope you get a result out of audi
Phib
CraigT007 said:
Update: Audi dealer has had discussions with Audi UK, who have agreed to 'review the case', based on the fact it's had a FSH from authorised dealers in the past, plus it's my 3rd Audi. ? (whatever the 'case', Audi UK have had a good opportunity to say no, and they didn't)
Audi dealer had to drop an email to Audi UK listing the car, fault, history etc for Audi UK to review. Dealer has been advised that the replacement option is a non starter. I can't/won't be paying a bill of this magnitude. I've asked the question of what will happen if I continue to drive it like this, will it remain the same, get worse, seize? (I've not had a response)
I expect to hear back at some point this week.
In the meantime I've discussed the issue with the recommended transmission specialist Mackies, in Glasgow. They can cover the repair on the box but need to drive and diagnose the fault(s) then will provide a price. They are familiar with the boxes and they have suggested a worst case bill of £4k for the repair of 'things that are replaceable'. They also know of the size of bills Audi charging for their only 'repair: a complete gearbox replacement: they guessed at £8-10k)
In one way or another, to fix the car, I will be a few grand out of pocket, but the fact that Audi UK have agreed to review the (my) case, does have a little warm glow of some form of contribution will be 'considered'. As much as I'd have liked to have seen the actual email sent to Audi and the rhetoric contained within, I fear there's a lot of influence will be based on this. I don't know.
Next course of action will be determined on the call from Audi dealer to me.
I will update with the Audi response, ultimate gearbox fix and cost.
Sounds like knowing the likely cost of Audi's bill they simply half it for a win/win the business. I bet it's a <2k fix really to them!Audi dealer had to drop an email to Audi UK listing the car, fault, history etc for Audi UK to review. Dealer has been advised that the replacement option is a non starter. I can't/won't be paying a bill of this magnitude. I've asked the question of what will happen if I continue to drive it like this, will it remain the same, get worse, seize? (I've not had a response)
I expect to hear back at some point this week.
In the meantime I've discussed the issue with the recommended transmission specialist Mackies, in Glasgow. They can cover the repair on the box but need to drive and diagnose the fault(s) then will provide a price. They are familiar with the boxes and they have suggested a worst case bill of £4k for the repair of 'things that are replaceable'. They also know of the size of bills Audi charging for their only 'repair: a complete gearbox replacement: they guessed at £8-10k)
In one way or another, to fix the car, I will be a few grand out of pocket, but the fact that Audi UK have agreed to review the (my) case, does have a little warm glow of some form of contribution will be 'considered'. As much as I'd have liked to have seen the actual email sent to Audi and the rhetoric contained within, I fear there's a lot of influence will be based on this. I don't know.
Next course of action will be determined on the call from Audi dealer to me.
I will update with the Audi response, ultimate gearbox fix and cost.
I miss my B8 3.0TDi, feel I might have dodged the s-tronic bullet, but the Audi bullet took a chunk of flesh with it before it went.
80k miles (6 years old) and at 78-80k saw replacement/refurb of:
DPF
EGR Valve
Turbo
Also front hubs and discs warped. Bottom of front wings rusting. Rear load cover not staying in place. Drivers side vanity light not working (no voltage). Occasional jerk from the gearbox, but it did that for the lifetime of the car.
Rear diff then failed (Audi quoted 5k to replace), got a 2nd hand unit for 200 Euros from Latvia, got a good Indy to fit it, then drove it straight to a nearby garage to trade it in.
For a DSG Golf
80k miles (6 years old) and at 78-80k saw replacement/refurb of:
DPF
EGR Valve
Turbo
Also front hubs and discs warped. Bottom of front wings rusting. Rear load cover not staying in place. Drivers side vanity light not working (no voltage). Occasional jerk from the gearbox, but it did that for the lifetime of the car.
Rear diff then failed (Audi quoted 5k to replace), got a 2nd hand unit for 200 Euros from Latvia, got a good Indy to fit it, then drove it straight to a nearby garage to trade it in.
For a DSG Golf
CraigT007 said:
Update: Audi dealer has had discussions with Audi UK, who have agreed to 'review the case', based on the fact it's had a FSH from authorised dealers in the past, plus it's my 3rd Audi. ? (whatever the 'case', Audi UK have had a good opportunity to say no, and they didn't)
Audi dealer had to drop an email to Audi UK listing the car, fault, history etc for Audi UK to review. Dealer has been advised that the replacement option is a non starter. I can't/won't be paying a bill of this magnitude. I've asked the question of what will happen if I continue to drive it like this, will it remain the same, get worse, seize? (I've not had a response)
I expect to hear back at some point this week.
In the meantime I've discussed the issue with the recommended transmission specialist Mackies, in Glasgow. They can cover the repair on the box but need to drive and diagnose the fault(s) then will provide a price. They are familiar with the boxes and they have suggested a worst case bill of £4k for the repair of 'things that are replaceable'. They also know of the size of bills Audi charging for their only 'repair: a complete gearbox replacement: they guessed at £8-10k)
In one way or another, to fix the car, I will be a few grand out of pocket, but the fact that Audi UK have agreed to review the (my) case, does have a little warm glow of some form of contribution will be 'considered'. As much as I'd have liked to have seen the actual email sent to Audi and the rhetoric contained within, I fear there's a lot of influence will be based on this. I don't know.
Next course of action will be determined on the call from Audi dealer to me.
I will update with the Audi response, ultimate gearbox fix and cost.
Was nothing mentioned regarding the fact the garage had changed the gearbox fluid not long before it started playing up? Autos can become very erratic with the wrong oil and/or oil level.Audi dealer had to drop an email to Audi UK listing the car, fault, history etc for Audi UK to review. Dealer has been advised that the replacement option is a non starter. I can't/won't be paying a bill of this magnitude. I've asked the question of what will happen if I continue to drive it like this, will it remain the same, get worse, seize? (I've not had a response)
I expect to hear back at some point this week.
In the meantime I've discussed the issue with the recommended transmission specialist Mackies, in Glasgow. They can cover the repair on the box but need to drive and diagnose the fault(s) then will provide a price. They are familiar with the boxes and they have suggested a worst case bill of £4k for the repair of 'things that are replaceable'. They also know of the size of bills Audi charging for their only 'repair: a complete gearbox replacement: they guessed at £8-10k)
In one way or another, to fix the car, I will be a few grand out of pocket, but the fact that Audi UK have agreed to review the (my) case, does have a little warm glow of some form of contribution will be 'considered'. As much as I'd have liked to have seen the actual email sent to Audi and the rhetoric contained within, I fear there's a lot of influence will be based on this. I don't know.
Next course of action will be determined on the call from Audi dealer to me.
I will update with the Audi response, ultimate gearbox fix and cost.
csd19 said:
Was nothing mentioned regarding the fact the garage had changed the gearbox fluid not long before it started playing up? Autos can become very erratic with the wrong oil and/or oil level.
General update:Audi UK advise yesterday that due to map/chip-tune, they wont be contributing. It's taken until then to tell me this, despite knowing about the map from the outset.
As for the oil change: For many years, like many people, I rely upon the main (approved) dealer advising me of what the car needs: Wrong assumption. Audi have advised me that the strict adherence to the service schedules AND the works undertaken at service visits is the owners sole responsibility.
Audi dealer is silent, Audi UK are not recognising that it could have been wrong or lack of oil.
Mackies Transmissions in Glasgow will be doing the repair, their quote of £4.9k is still a bitter pill, but this will be 2Nr replacement clutches and complete mechatronics unit. confidence for repair is 95%, because they've done several before, including the glasgow traffic cops fully liveried A4 3.0tdi !
parts will be ordered next week. in the meantime, the car is on Audi forecourt waiting on parts.
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