£10k gbox bill on 4yr old Audi. Was it ever fit for purpose?

[anonymous-user]

Jimmy Recard said:

OldGermanHeaps said:

Audi autos have always been russian roulette though. Remember multitronic?

They weren't a question of if, they were a question of when. It was a turd of a gearbox.

I think 'multichronic' was the nickname I've seen on a few forums

[fatboy b]

Führen durch Scheiße Qualität

[DanSkoda]

As I've previously mentioned, the only parts available to Audi to order for Stronic/DSG boxes are the clutch pack set up, the mechatronics (control unit) or the whole box. Audi/VAG do not list separate items such as gears, synchros or bearings for dealers to order.
As soon as a dealer applies for goodwill, the remap code will be noted and Audi UK will come back with 0 goodwill contribution.
As for the boxes not being able to cope with a "mild" remap, some of them don't have much tolerance for extra torque built in. 7 speed dry clutched box in the twincharged Fabia/Polo/A1 is already mighty close to its torque limit from the factory.

[J4CKO]

My last gearbox swap was on a MK1 Golf GTI, £40 out of Loot and most of a Saturday to fit it.

This has made me think what I would do if mine went, secondhand 7 speed Merc boxes are £500 - £700 ish, not sure I could fit that on the path though, am guessing I wouldnt be able to lift that like a Golf box.

Edited by J4CKO on Sunday 19th February 19:24

[Willy Nilly]

DanSkoda said:

As I've previously mentioned, the only parts available to Audi to order for Stronic/DSG boxes are the clutch pack set up, the mechatronics (control unit) or the whole box. Audi/VAG do not list separate items such as gears, synchros or bearings for dealers to order.
As soon as a dealer applies for goodwill, the remap code will be noted and Audi UK will come back with 0 goodwill contribution.
As for the boxes not being able to cope with a "mild" remap, some of them don't have much tolerance for extra torque built in. 7 speed dry clutched box in the twincharged Fabia/Polo/A1 is already mighty close to its torque limit from the factory.

If they can't cope with a mild remap, how do they cope with a driver that's a bit rough with them?

I assume VAG have bought this 'box in from someone like ZF, so can't parts or service be sourced from them? If the OP has been responsible for the failure why not at least give him the opportunity to have it repaired at a reasonable cost? Long term, this is likely to have an adverse affect on resale, and thus lease costs, if people aren't prepared to to buy used cars fitted with this transmission if they know it's only one step away from a huge repair bill.

[nickfrog]

Willy Nilly said:

If they can't cope with a mild remap, how do they cope with a driver that's a bit rough with them?

I think there is only so rough you can be with an auto box. And that would still be within torque tolerance, ie within their design capabilities.

[Alucidnation]

Last auto box i knew of that was replaced was around £5K through Audi about 5 years ago, although that was a Tiptronic on a B7 S4, so nearly £10k for a DSG is probably not far off?

[Vaud]

nickfrog said:

I think there is only so rough you can be with an auto box. And that would still be within torque tolerance, ie within their design capabilities.

True. The software stops you being too rough.

[rallycross]

Hope you get it sorted this thread just highlights why there is no point using main dealers once a car is out of warranty, BMW and Audi are both terrible for replace not repair on problems that can easily be repaired using 3rd party experts.

[Heaveho]

EazyDuz said:

So because it hasn't happened to you, that then applies to all makes and models? Lol. I suppose next you'll claim your grandad lived to 110 having been chain smoking since he was 13, so lung cancer is a myth.

No, he was killed in a bizarre accident involving an out of control Audi with a seized gearbox skidding off the road and running him over. The owner of the Audi was sued for running his car with a remap that was considered to be out of the gearbox's capabilities.

If you can't talk sense, I don't see why I should.

[Willy Nilly]

nickfrog said:

Willy Nilly said:

If they can't cope with a mild remap, how do they cope with a driver that's a bit rough with them?

I think there is only so rough you can be with an auto box. And that would still be within torque tolerance, ie within their design capabilities.

But the OP remapped the engine, if he left the transmission software alone, surely it would have protected the transmission?

[Vaud]

Willy Nilly said:

But the OP remapped the engine, if he left the transmission software alone, surely it would have protected the transmission?

I suspect they would argue that that the box can only handle torque within certain, know parameters, which is controlled by the engine ECU.

How can the gearbox prevent excess torque being sent to it?

Personally I'm all for remapping, but I know I'm pretty much on my own afterwards.

[Rich_W]

rallycross said:

Hope you get it sorted this thread just highlights why there is no point using main dealers once a car is out of warranty, BMW and Audi are both terrible for replace not repair on problems that can easily be repaired using 3rd party experts.

Though in this case the mapping makes it irrelevant. I always advise people to have their car serviced through a dealer for the first 3-5 years to try and engender some goodwill if a major component gives up at 4 years old. The money you save by going to an indy is never going to be enough if the gearbox/diff/engine lets go

Willy Nilly said:

But the OP remapped the engine, if he left the transmission software alone, surely it would have protected the transmission?

Everything is linked these days. Networks.

[Krikkit]

Vaud said:

Willy Nilly said:

But the OP remapped the engine, if he left the transmission software alone, surely it would have protected the transmission?

I suspect they would argue that that the box can only handle torque within certain, know parameters, which is controlled by the engine ECU.

How can the gearbox prevent excess torque being sent to it?

Personally I'm all for remapping, but I know I'm pretty much on my own afterwards.

Exactly this - the engine map will originally have been customised if close to the gearbox's limits for torque output at certain points (particularly low RPM as that's a point of maximum stress).

The original durability validation will be done based on a certain maximum torque input, if the remap takes it beyond the design it will accelerate the wear, how much depends on how close they were to the maximum design torque in the first place.

A certain amount of torque cut will also be worked into the gearchange strategy as well, if the map interferes with this as well you can understand why it gets overwhelmed.

[LocoBlade]

http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?t=161...

As mentioned its quite a common occurance on earlier B8 S4s and I suspect your best bet is going to be via the 3rd party repair/recon route rather than via Audi, the above thread mentions the Bristol gearbox specialists fitted a later recon gearbox for £2500 which although still painful is still probably less than you'll pay Audi even if you can somehow persuade them to contribute.

[CraigT007]

Guys, a fascinating series of responses and opinion. I've read every post, thank.

The smoking/cancer analogy I don't believe as being applicable (doctor or not!)

I bought the car new. I thought the power and torque produced by the 3.0tdi was pretty good and the MPG returned when considering the performance, was excellent, but the [apparent] value for money of a £500 remap is outstanding, based on the belief that the original map is there for the purpose of euro emissions only and the power and torque soon-to-be-realised was what the machine always was intended to offer. I guess at times, we only hear what we want to. I mapped the car at three months old.

...and strangely enough, the last box I changed was also a mk1 golf, just two years ago, bought from Crawley and fitted with ease. No, the STronic is a 'monster' by comparison.

Value, dealer window price for the car is probably £18k, it was £48k new with extras. Parkers probably has this car closer to £13.5k :-( which makes it even more applicable that my dealer even thought they could suggest that the £9.7k repair bill would be even considered.

A thousand thanks to those who've suggested all those alternatives the length and breadth of the country. I'll begin my calls around Glasgow, then it doesn't matter if it's 100 or 400 miles for the repair. (My Mk1 golf conversion was done in Somerset four years ago):- have car (!) will travel.

I hope to find out tomorrow what the formal response to the current dealer request is wrt the goodwill. despite the naysayers, I remain unwarranted optimistic.

I doubt if I will be able to 'prove' the actual damage of the box, thus failing Audi heavy contribution, my plan is: second opinion. Failing that: phone calls galore, the guys I looked at from the links contained within the thread all look good, even if one of their headline services is 'remapping...' :-0 I'm sure there's a Dragons Den plan in there, we remap, then in a few years we repair the box you're extra torques have chewed up. LOL

I will update the thread when I get my response from the local Audi dealer.

I don't think there's any recourse on those who remapped the car. It was instructed to be 'mild'. It wasn't tested otherwise, certainly not beyond the comparison between the factory 245 whooosh to the remapped whoooosh. Smile factor science. £500 well spent.

Whilst I acknowledge the guys at the dealer can't all be technical geniuses and are unlikely to be able to fully analyse and understand the complexities of a modern STronic box, let alone attempt a repair, I accept a certain level (actually all) of risk insofar as it was at my instruction to increase horses, torques and I'm not interested in euro level emissions.

Thank you for those who have bid 'good luck', in whatever manner intended; thanks

One thing for sure, it's unlikely to put me off the brand of the "German superior quality" vehicles, but I shall switch dealer allegiance from this day hence. (should I get the response my naive optimism kind of knows is coming...)

to be continued...

PS: Note to self: cancel Disney 2017

[briang9]

CraigT007 said:

Guys, a fascinating series of responses and opinion. I've read every post,
A thousand thanks to those who've suggested all those alternatives the length and breadth of the country. I'll begin my calls around Glasgow,

Start with Mackies, they are transmission genius, I have been on a factory tour, impressive is an understatement. I have friends who have travelled from all over the UK to use them and they have not been disappointed

ETA.. BTW I have no connection to them other than being a very happy and satisfied customer

Edited by briang9 on Monday 20th February 00:07

[EazyDuz]

Heaveho said:

No, he was killed in a bizarre accident involving an out of control Audi with a seized gearbox skidding off the road and running him over. The owner of the Audi was sued for running his car with a remap that was considered to be out of the gearbox's capabilities.

If you can't talk sense, I don't see why I should.

Read other responses in the thread and you'll realise you're wrong.

[djc206]

Alucidnation said:

Last auto box i knew of that was replaced was around £5K through Audi about 5 years ago, although that was a Tiptronic on a B7 S4, so nearly £10k for a DSG is probably not far off?

My B8 RS4 had its S tronic gearbox replaced. £14k apparently, under warranty so not a concern for me. Funny thing was it was only making a slight clunk going into and out of fourth under load, I didn't think for a second that they'd authorise a full replacement tha quickly.

[phib]

Good luck with the dealer tomorrow. Will be following this with interest as I have the same car / age but with 96k on it

Phib