£10k gbox bill on 4yr old Audi. Was it ever fit for purpose?
Discussion
ZX10R NIN said:
The engine mod really isn't the issue (it is a free pass for Audi to walk away) these gearboxes aren't the most reliable units but the real issue is the car was well out of warranty but the OP still feels he should get some goodwill from Audi!
Most people would take their out of warranty car to a gearbox specialist rather than get turned over by the main dealer who has no interest in repairing a gearbox but will happily replace it for 10k.
To be fair to the OP that is VERY low mileage for a transmission to fail, which is why he was asking for a goodwill. Most people would take their out of warranty car to a gearbox specialist rather than get turned over by the main dealer who has no interest in repairing a gearbox but will happily replace it for 10k.
fivepointnine said:
To be fair to the OP that is VERY low mileage for a transmission to fail, which is why he was asking for a goodwill.
I agree to a certain extent but Audi's goodwill won't stretch that far maybe 1-4k that would still leave the OP with 6k to find vs 4k from the specialist.xjay1337 said:
A VW/Audi vehicle which goes in for the emissions recall will have a TD1 flash.
Just taking this bit in isolation, you believe a standard car with the emissions update will end up with a TD1 code stored?If so, I can assure you it absolutely doesn't.
There's different codes for different issues. TD1 was the basic engine remap code. IIRC there was T23 for gearbox map and TXD to denote a tuning box was fitted.
If your car ever does flag up such a code and VAG baulk on their warranty, and you really want to contest that it's never been remapped etc, the ecu in question can be sent back to them for verification. Obviously if it comes back that it has been fiddled with you're also culpable for the cost of the removal and testing. Not known anyone to take that offer up yet however.
Out of interest, if you buy a car that was remapped in the past but changed back to standard before it was sold and the buyer was none the wiser, would that just be bad luck (assuming still within warranty) or is there a date/time stamp when the remap was done?
It would be pretty annoying if you bought a car that had been mapped in the past (before being returned to factory/sold) and something went wrong with it but only then you find out it has no warranty. There must be a few cars in that state.
It would be pretty annoying if you bought a car that had been mapped in the past (before being returned to factory/sold) and something went wrong with it but only then you find out it has no warranty. There must be a few cars in that state.
KTF said:
Out of interest, if you buy a car that was remapped in the past but changed back to standard before it was sold and the buyer was none the wiser, would that just be bad luck (assuming still within warranty) or is there a date/time stamp when the remap was done?
It would be pretty annoying if you bought a car that had been mapped in the past (before being returned to factory/sold) and something went wrong with it but only then you find out it has no warranty. There must be a few cars in that state.
Caveat emptor really.It would be pretty annoying if you bought a car that had been mapped in the past (before being returned to factory/sold) and something went wrong with it but only then you find out it has no warranty. There must be a few cars in that state.
You'd probably have comeback against Audi themselves if they took a car in P/X and subsequently sold it to you, assuming they would even take a TD1 (or whatever code) flagged car as P/X anyway.
I'm surprised, and not surprised, at the outcome here. It's re-mapped so the chances of any 'goodwill' are limited as it's no longer standard and there's an easy scapegoat. However, you've bought multiple Audis before, the car is low mileage, it's not unusual for gearboxes on these to grenade themselves even without modifications.
This is exactly why I haven't remapped my car, yes, it could gain 40-50BHP but I really don't fancy a 10k bill for a new gearbox when the warranty doesn't pay out.
This is exactly why I haven't remapped my car, yes, it could gain 40-50BHP but I really don't fancy a 10k bill for a new gearbox when the warranty doesn't pay out.
SWoll said:
Alucidnation said:
giggity said:
Begrudgingly, my current shed is a 2004 A4 Convertible.
I vowed in 2008 after my A3 to never purchase an Audi as they are utter crocks of s
t.
stty automatic boxes, and st engines with the oil consumption issues.
An arrogant brand that is hugely overrated.
I only went for the A4 as it was cheap and comes with Full Service History so I won't need to spend on it (for now anyway I hope)
Hope the 1.8T and Manual Box from that era are solid enough as I only need this for another year max.
Cant wait to get back in a Benz, 8 years and perfect.
Anything beats VAG st.
Why did you purchase another one if they were so sI vowed in 2008 after my A3 to never purchase an Audi as they are utter crocks of s
t.s
tty automatic boxes, and st engines with the oil consumption issues.An arrogant brand that is hugely overrated.
I only went for the A4 as it was cheap and comes with Full Service History so I won't need to spend on it (for now anyway I hope)
Hope the 1.8T and Manual Box from that era are solid enough as I only need this for another year max.
Cant wait to get back in a Benz, 8 years and perfect.
Anything beats VAG s
t.t?There are plenty of other makes out there with FSH and cheap.
Bizarre.
Bizarre indeed.
Decided that as it's a convertible it'll prove to be an easy sale come next summer / spring.
It's in good condition apart from bubbles of rust on the front Wings - Common on B6 B7 and B8 cars - typical s
t quality of VAG.At least with Mercedes you get the 30 year cover on the bodywork.
Gosh I really want to be back in a Mercedes.
Got the Audi as I didn't want to get into a French heap of s
t or another BMW. I dislike Japanese cars. Hopefully this will pay off OK as it has main dealer service history, cambelt water pump and previous owner spent loads getting everything it needed done.
Time will tell. I aim to spend as little on it and run it for a while when it comes to sale time I should be able to recoup most of the money paid.
ZX10R NIN said:
Most people would take their out of warranty car to a gearbox specialist rather than get turned over by the main dealer who has no interest in repairing a gearbox but will happily replace it for 10k.
Most peoples cars don't suffer 10 grand transmission failures in or out of warranty. The car is an expensive, unreliable, piece of st, without without the map. giggity said:
It's in good condition apart from bubbles of rust on the front Wings - Common on B6 B7 and B8 cars - typical st quality of VAG.
At least with Mercedes you get the 30 year cover on the bodywork.
Gosh I really want to be back in a Mercedes.
I sold my E class due to continuing issues with rust, it went back twice for the bonnet and tailgate repair and respray and had new wings , spring perches and lots of other bits repaired , when it came back for a third time it was time to move it on , issues started at just 4 years old. Mercedes couldnt have cared less about it t quality of VAG.At least with Mercedes you get the 30 year cover on the bodywork.
Gosh I really want to be back in a Mercedes.
When I had my W208 CLK it suffered from rust, MB picked up the bill, did the bottom of driver door, two new front wings, rear arches and bonnet.
Went to an outstanding Mercedes Bodyshop and was fine for the 3 years I kept it for (had it for 4 yrs). Car itself was also very reliable and that's why I went for another (the W209 CLK).
That car was even better. Only sold it was it was a EURO 4 Diesel with a DPF so it was time to move it on, despite it being virtually every box ticked!!
Got it for a bargain price, so lost minimal amounts after 4 years and 40K!!
Went to an outstanding Mercedes Bodyshop and was fine for the 3 years I kept it for (had it for 4 yrs). Car itself was also very reliable and that's why I went for another (the W209 CLK).
That car was even better. Only sold it was it was a EURO 4 Diesel with a DPF so it was time to move it on, despite it being virtually every box ticked!!
Got it for a bargain price, so lost minimal amounts after 4 years and 40K!!
ZX10R NIN said:
Quite a few of the DSG style gearboxes are around five figures.
I've never even had to replace a clutch in a car, never mind the whole transmission. With correct maintenance and driven in a somewhat responsible manner, the transmission should last the life time of the car. It's not like they are subjected repeated, heavy, high load starts or direction changes or run all day long at full load or routinely get oil contamination. A car just drives up and down the road, it's easy. 
Willy Nilly said:
ZX10R NIN said:
Quite a few of the DSG style gearboxes are around five figures.
I've never even had to replace a clutch in a car, never mind the whole transmission. With correct maintenance and driven in a somewhat responsible manner, the transmission should last the life time of the car. It's not like they are subjected repeated, heavy, high load starts or direction changes or run all day long at full load or routinely get oil contamination. A car just drives up and down the road, it's easy. Your modern autobox doesn't even have a dipstick/fill/drain (I'm curious at the OP's assertion of fluid changes because I didn't think VW offered that!?) DSGs are 'sealed for life' (literally - they WILL die and thus that's the end of their life).
That said, there are people who can and do rebuild DSGs - you just haul the thing out and ship-it-to-them (not a trivial task!!)
You can also do some maintenance/fluid work if you have a laptop and a copy of VAGCOM but that tends to be of the 'desperate attempt to restore it' style of thing (perhaps what the OP's dealer tried?).
405dogvan said:
Auto boxes have ALWAYS had a reputation for shorter lifespans than manuals and modern autos are, if anything, far-worse than older models in that they're more complex and have zero maintenance options.
Your modern autobox doesn't even have a dipstick/fill/drain (I'm curious at the OP's assertion of fluid changes because I didn't think VW offered that!?) DSGs are 'sealed for life' (literally - they WILL die and thus that's the end of their life).
That said, there are people who can and do rebuild DSGs - you just haul the thing out and ship-it-to-them (not a trivial task!!)
You can also do some maintenance/fluid work if you have a laptop and a copy of VAGCOM but that tends to be of the 'desperate attempt to restore it' style of thing (perhaps what the OP's dealer tried?).
So, what you're saying is, that modern automatic transmissions have been designed to be less reliable, almost impossible to maintain and prohibitively expensive to repair. Them, when they do fail, the manufacture will look for any excuse to wash their hands of them? Your modern autobox doesn't even have a dipstick/fill/drain (I'm curious at the OP's assertion of fluid changes because I didn't think VW offered that!?) DSGs are 'sealed for life' (literally - they WILL die and thus that's the end of their life).
That said, there are people who can and do rebuild DSGs - you just haul the thing out and ship-it-to-them (not a trivial task!!)
You can also do some maintenance/fluid work if you have a laptop and a copy of VAGCOM but that tends to be of the 'desperate attempt to restore it' style of thing (perhaps what the OP's dealer tried?).
Willy Nilly said:
So, what you're saying is, that modern automatic transmissions have been designed to be less reliable, almost impossible to maintain and prohibitively expensive to repair. Them, when they do fail, the manufacture will look for any excuse to wash their hands of them?
Nope, designed the same and probably with the same failure rate as older boxes, however the trend is for car builders to "buy in" complete gearboxes from the manufacturers. When the 50p O ring seal fails the workshop follow the prescribed diagnostic routine......remove entire box, ship box back to manufacturer, replace with new box (manufacturer strips/refurbs/and puts it in the "replacements" pile. Any of them fail during warranty period would result in the gearbox manufacturer picking up all the costs! Outside of that and you are in the boat with the OP!Jim
I would say that as autoboxes become more and more common, more failures and more problem boxes are going to come to attention.
From experience, ZF, the maker of my 6 speed autobox, say it will need an oil change every 50-75k.
It also say 30-50k for the 8 speed model.
land Rover say 150k.
Lots of us have suffered torque converter failure way before the 150k figure and it's becoming more and more known the oil needs changed and changed regularly.
The ZF also needs a certain spec of oil. Which is £14 a litre. Mine is a 12 litres.
Hence the question of, is the oil the correct spec. But as the poster who highlighted it said. Proving it is the point and would be hard.
We are several years away from the general public knowing and accepting that autoboxes need oil changes at regular intervals, so failure will keep popping up.
Audi do seem to have a poor reputation for gearboxes, which is a shame as the cars should be fine for many miles.
From experience, ZF, the maker of my 6 speed autobox, say it will need an oil change every 50-75k.
It also say 30-50k for the 8 speed model.
land Rover say 150k.
Lots of us have suffered torque converter failure way before the 150k figure and it's becoming more and more known the oil needs changed and changed regularly.
The ZF also needs a certain spec of oil. Which is £14 a litre. Mine is a 12 litres.
Hence the question of, is the oil the correct spec. But as the poster who highlighted it said. Proving it is the point and would be hard.
We are several years away from the general public knowing and accepting that autoboxes need oil changes at regular intervals, so failure will keep popping up.
Audi do seem to have a poor reputation for gearboxes, which is a shame as the cars should be fine for many miles.
As you raise the ZF box in the Land Rover I assume you're aware of this from Ashcroft Transmissions in respect of the ZF 4HP22 as used in the RRC.
"Q.I have a 4 speed ZF Auto and it sticks in first gear in the morning or when cold and is reluctant to change up from 1st gear. Once the gearbox has warmed up it shifts normally. Why?
A. The governor valve is sticking, which can be caused by contamination. i.e. clutch plates or other parts disintegrating. The fine debris finds its way past the filter and tends to accumulate in the governor, causing it to stick. A temporary solution is to remove and clean the governor. The problem will often recur as debris from damaged parts continues to build up in the governor. If the problem continues after cleaning the governor then it may be necessary it replace your Autobox.
We have noticed many customers reporting this fault starting a few days after an oil and filter change and after researching this using our experience and the expertise of others in the trade we have come to the conclusion that as ATF oil is a detergent type oil, when the oil is changed this will dislodge and stir up settled debris in the autobox which in turn jams the governor valve. In light of this although it sounds controversial it is debateable if changing the oil and filter is a good idea, some say if the box it going to fail it will fail if the oil is good or bad and their advice is leave it alone. I am still undecided but the truth is I get a lot of calls from customers thinking they are looking after the autobox by servicing it and a few days later this fault occurs."
http://www.ashcroft-transmissions.co.uk/frequently...
That said, I've done a couple of fluid & filter changes on mine and - so far - all OK. In the event of it playing up & on the basis I would have nothing to lose then first action would be fluid & filter change.
Whist I know nothing about Audi gearboxes it was of interest that the OP's fault manifested straight after a fluid change. In their position I'd try a further fluid & filter change to see if it made any difference.
"Q.I have a 4 speed ZF Auto and it sticks in first gear in the morning or when cold and is reluctant to change up from 1st gear. Once the gearbox has warmed up it shifts normally. Why?
A. The governor valve is sticking, which can be caused by contamination. i.e. clutch plates or other parts disintegrating. The fine debris finds its way past the filter and tends to accumulate in the governor, causing it to stick. A temporary solution is to remove and clean the governor. The problem will often recur as debris from damaged parts continues to build up in the governor. If the problem continues after cleaning the governor then it may be necessary it replace your Autobox.
We have noticed many customers reporting this fault starting a few days after an oil and filter change and after researching this using our experience and the expertise of others in the trade we have come to the conclusion that as ATF oil is a detergent type oil, when the oil is changed this will dislodge and stir up settled debris in the autobox which in turn jams the governor valve. In light of this although it sounds controversial it is debateable if changing the oil and filter is a good idea, some say if the box it going to fail it will fail if the oil is good or bad and their advice is leave it alone. I am still undecided but the truth is I get a lot of calls from customers thinking they are looking after the autobox by servicing it and a few days later this fault occurs."
http://www.ashcroft-transmissions.co.uk/frequently...
That said, I've done a couple of fluid & filter changes on mine and - so far - all OK. In the event of it playing up & on the basis I would have nothing to lose then first action would be fluid & filter change.
Whist I know nothing about Audi gearboxes it was of interest that the OP's fault manifested straight after a fluid change. In their position I'd try a further fluid & filter change to see if it made any difference.
Edited by paintman on Thursday 16th March 22:32
Gassing Station | General Gassing | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff