£10k gbox bill on 4yr old Audi. Was it ever fit for purpose?
Discussion
nyxster said:
modern audis are unreliable garbage sold by dealers like mobile phones on 3 year plans. there is no goodwill because all they care about us signing you up for the new 2.5 percent improved model with slightly altered grill and upgraded instagram filter for another 299 a month. the reason they want ten grand for the gearbox is to encourage you to scrap the car and think 'if iI put that money into a new car i'll have a warranty' - they want these kind of HUGE BILLS AHEAD scare stories because it keeps the nervous nellies frightened into their never ending PCP deals, which is why their dealers are now just glorified oil and filter change shops.
I ran a D2 S8 to over 200k - 50k on a transmission is just appaling, but audi don't give a monkeys because once you arent on their 3 year PCP treadmill your value as a customer is zero, they will simply fleece you fir as much as they can to try and make their pcp and service plan deals seem like good value. The fact is all these '16k' repairs are BS figures inflated to maie people say 'thank god i had a warranty!' instead of asking why a 50k plus product that used to be engineered for 150k+ miles suddenly falls apart at 5 years and then magically costs its entire value to repair.
the whole thing is a scam put together after the beancounters at mercedes worked out that their cars were so well engineered they never made any money from people buying new cars or replacing parts - I can remember my mum;s old boss wheeling a SL in to complain the courtesy light bulb had blown. and the dealer replacing it fior free and apologising. Then look what happened - the whole industry now runs on a 3 year lifespan of warranty + oil and filter service plan, then another 2 years for the approved used scheme to prop up the PCP residuals and offload the ex lease cars into the used market, 5 years suddenly things break that cost as much as the car is worth...
Well I'm not so sure, if the value of the cars are zero after 3 years the PCP prices will shoot up and noone willl buy them new.I ran a D2 S8 to over 200k - 50k on a transmission is just appaling, but audi don't give a monkeys because once you arent on their 3 year PCP treadmill your value as a customer is zero, they will simply fleece you fir as much as they can to try and make their pcp and service plan deals seem like good value. The fact is all these '16k' repairs are BS figures inflated to maie people say 'thank god i had a warranty!' instead of asking why a 50k plus product that used to be engineered for 150k+ miles suddenly falls apart at 5 years and then magically costs its entire value to repair.
the whole thing is a scam put together after the beancounters at mercedes worked out that their cars were so well engineered they never made any money from people buying new cars or replacing parts - I can remember my mum;s old boss wheeling a SL in to complain the courtesy light bulb had blown. and the dealer replacing it fior free and apologising. Then look what happened - the whole industry now runs on a 3 year lifespan of warranty + oil and filter service plan, then another 2 years for the approved used scheme to prop up the PCP residuals and offload the ex lease cars into the used market, 5 years suddenly things break that cost as much as the car is worth...
jamoor said:
Well I'm not so sure, if the value of the cars are zero after 3 years the PCP prices will shoot up and noone willl buy them new.
hence the 'approved used' scheme that gets them off the dealers forecourt and into 3rd party finance where residuals arent their problem. by the time the 2nd owner is done the car is out of warranty and no longer retailed as approved used so gets junked off into the aftermarket where they dont care about residuals.nyxster said:
hence the 'approved used' scheme that gets them off the dealers forecourt and into 3rd party finance where residuals arent their problem. by the time the 2nd owner is done the car is out of warranty and no longer retailed as approved used so gets junked off into the aftermarket where they dont care about residuals.
It is actually in the manufacturers best interest to ensure that their cars are desirable from the first owner to the last, as this will stimulate new sales.Imagine if you were going to buy a new car and the depreciation was 90% after 3 years, would you buy it new?
If you are PCPing it the monthly payment will be a reflection of its value at the end of the term, if it's worth nothing after three years then the monthly payment will be high. High monthly payments = noone can afford your cars.
nyxster said:
modern audis are unreliable garbage sold by dealers like mobile phones on 3 year plans. there is no goodwill because all they care about us signing you up for the new 2.5 percent improved model with slightly altered grill and upgraded instagram filter for another 299 a month. the reason they want ten grand for the gearbox is to encourage you to scrap the car and think 'if iI put that money into a new car i'll have a warranty' - they want these kind of HUGE BILLS AHEAD scare stories because it keeps the nervous nellies frightened into their never ending PCP deals, which is why their dealers are now just glorified oil and filter change shops.
I ran a D2 S8 to over 200k - 50k on a transmission is just appaling, but audi don't give a monkeys because once you arent on their 3 year PCP treadmill your value as a customer is zero, they will simply fleece you fir as much as they can to try and make their pcp and service plan deals seem like good value. The fact is all these '16k' repairs are BS figures inflated to maie people say 'thank god i had a warranty!' instead of asking why a 50k plus product that used to be engineered for 150k+ miles suddenly falls apart at 5 years and then magically costs its entire value to repair.
the whole thing is a scam put together after the beancounters at mercedes worked out that their cars were so well engineered they never made any money from people buying new cars or replacing parts - I can remember my mum;s old boss wheeling a SL in to complain the courtesy light bulb had blown. and the dealer replacing it fior free and apologising. Then look what happened - the whole industry now runs on a 3 year lifespan of warranty + oil and filter service plan, then another 2 years for the approved used scheme to prop up the PCP residuals and offload the ex lease cars into the used market, 5 years suddenly things break that cost as much as the car is worth...
Agreed. The warranty costs on the M3 went through the roof at around 65K miles, that's some serious faith in your product I ran a D2 S8 to over 200k - 50k on a transmission is just appaling, but audi don't give a monkeys because once you arent on their 3 year PCP treadmill your value as a customer is zero, they will simply fleece you fir as much as they can to try and make their pcp and service plan deals seem like good value. The fact is all these '16k' repairs are BS figures inflated to maie people say 'thank god i had a warranty!' instead of asking why a 50k plus product that used to be engineered for 150k+ miles suddenly falls apart at 5 years and then magically costs its entire value to repair.
the whole thing is a scam put together after the beancounters at mercedes worked out that their cars were so well engineered they never made any money from people buying new cars or replacing parts - I can remember my mum;s old boss wheeling a SL in to complain the courtesy light bulb had blown. and the dealer replacing it fior free and apologising. Then look what happened - the whole industry now runs on a 3 year lifespan of warranty + oil and filter service plan, then another 2 years for the approved used scheme to prop up the PCP residuals and offload the ex lease cars into the used market, 5 years suddenly things break that cost as much as the car is worth...
At around 58K the actuators failed, two plastic gears which could have been made of anything more durable. That's the reality of modern cars. Great for 3-5 years then roll your sleeves up and start re-engineering things that are going to fall apart. yonex said:
ZX10R NIN said:
I've pretty much remapped every car I've owned & the map has never caused an issue with the car, but I have seen my mate have two gearboxes in his RS5 over the last three years & that's a standard one.
That's unpossible, I have it on Internet gospel that one has done 2500 hrs, and it's perfect I tell you 
catman said:
Gary C said:
I know a few Porsche buyers have bought cars from opc's then taken them back for warranty work only to have it refused due to a recorded cat 4, 5 or 6 over rev by the previous owner.
I don't see how they could refuse on that basis. They are supposedly hugely fussy in that area when buying in a car. If they didn't check properly, there's no way they could refuse warranty work due to their negligence.
Tim
But how does the new owner prove they didn't over Rev it.
A number in the club did buy cars from an opc then have extended warranties refused too.
Edited by Gary C on Friday 17th March 22:13
jhonn said:
^^^ @ Nyxster.
One might suspect that you're a tad cynical.
(Actually, you're being astute - thing is, it's not just Audi, I suspect it applies to a number of the high-volume aspirational brands.)
the money i've thrown at PCP's would have paid for a F12 in cash by now if i'd kept my Sapphire RS cosworth and just kept rebuilding engines/gearboxes as required.One might suspect that you're a tad cynical.
(Actually, you're being astute - thing is, it's not just Audi, I suspect it applies to a number of the high-volume aspirational brands.)
i've since learned my lesson and picked up a 6.2 E63 AMG which I now intend to keep until we're fighting over the last gallons of optimax mad max style.
a 6 grand engine/gearbox rebuild seems a good deal when you consider the first owner of my car spanked 50 grand in depreciation for 45k miles and at 2,750 a corner the amg rims are basically half the value of the current car.
btw my last e350 diesel had a residual put on it of 6,400 at 7 years old - the first owner spent over 8k in options alone. his first 3 years cost him 28k in depreciation, my 3.5 years cost me 8k.
fair enough as a business user you can claim it back, but you have to earn the money in the first place and 900 a month fir a new AMG you'll never own would pay for a w212 outright - the following years savings would buy a very nice weekend toy.
so yes cynical. but my savings account is much healthier for it.
nyxster said:
modern audis are unreliable garbage sold by dealers like mobile phones on 3 year plans. there is no goodwill because all they care about us signing you up for the new 2.5 percent improved model with slightly altered grill and upgraded instagram filter for another 299 a month. the reason they want ten grand for the gearbox is to encourage you to scrap the car and think 'if iI put that money into a new car i'll have a warranty' - they want these kind of HUGE BILLS AHEAD scare stories because it keeps the nervous nellies frightened into their never ending PCP deals, which is why their dealers are now just glorified oil and filter change shops.
I ran a D2 S8 to over 200k - 50k on a transmission is just appaling, but audi don't give a monkeys because once you arent on their 3 year PCP treadmill your value as a customer is zero, they will simply fleece you fir as much as they can to try and make their pcp and service plan deals seem like good value. The fact is all these '16k' repairs are BS figures inflated to maie people say 'thank god i had a warranty!' instead of asking why a 50k plus product that used to be engineered for 150k+ miles suddenly falls apart at 5 years and then magically costs its entire value to repair.
the whole thing is a scam put together after the beancounters at mercedes worked out that their cars were so well engineered they never made any money from people buying new cars or replacing parts - I can remember my mum;s old boss wheeling a SL in to complain the courtesy light bulb had blown. and the dealer replacing it fior free and apologising. Then look what happened - the whole industry now runs on a 3 year lifespan of warranty + oil and filter service plan, then another 2 years for the approved used scheme to prop up the PCP residuals and offload the ex lease cars into the used market, 5 years suddenly things break that cost as much as the car is worth...
Quoted For Truth.I ran a D2 S8 to over 200k - 50k on a transmission is just appaling, but audi don't give a monkeys because once you arent on their 3 year PCP treadmill your value as a customer is zero, they will simply fleece you fir as much as they can to try and make their pcp and service plan deals seem like good value. The fact is all these '16k' repairs are BS figures inflated to maie people say 'thank god i had a warranty!' instead of asking why a 50k plus product that used to be engineered for 150k+ miles suddenly falls apart at 5 years and then magically costs its entire value to repair.
the whole thing is a scam put together after the beancounters at mercedes worked out that their cars were so well engineered they never made any money from people buying new cars or replacing parts - I can remember my mum;s old boss wheeling a SL in to complain the courtesy light bulb had blown. and the dealer replacing it fior free and apologising. Then look what happened - the whole industry now runs on a 3 year lifespan of warranty + oil and filter service plan, then another 2 years for the approved used scheme to prop up the PCP residuals and offload the ex lease cars into the used market, 5 years suddenly things break that cost as much as the car is worth...
yonex said:
Agreed. The warranty costs on the M3 went through the roof at around 65K miles, that's some serious faith in your product At around 58K the actuators failed, two plastic gears which could have been made of anything more durable. That's the reality of modern cars. Great for 3-5 years then roll your sleeves up and start re-engineering things that are going to fall apart.
Mercedes are the same - they want about 2,200 for a tier 1 AMG E63 warranty per year - to put that in perspective its nearly 10 percent of the car value and 3 s greater than the premium the insurance company charge to insure the whole car against total loss including me ploughing into a bus stop full of jeremy kyle's audience and the ensuing PI bill. At around 58K the actuators failed, two plastic gears which could have been made of anything more durable. That's the reality of modern cars. Great for 3-5 years then roll your sleeves up and start re-engineering things that are going to fall apart. They know the headbolts are a defective design so they are pricing it into the warranty - done at a dealer its anything from 6-15k - done at a specialist with race spec bolts, sls valve buckets its 2-3.5k
they fit garbage parts then won't accept responsibility when they fail. as long as they are covered during the fisr owner and approved used owner schemes they don't care - if anything horror stories of bon approved car big bills supports their marketing of the 'security' of buying new/approved.
nost people assume the only people who can fix their car are the dealers so when they get these silly quotes they just fold and buy a new one. in most cases like AMG/RS/M cars aftermarket parts make these cars more reliable than new models which have just as many engineering defects.
I do find it disconcerting that Asian manufacturers like Kia and Hyundai now have minimum no-quibble 5 year warranties on most (if not all) models, yet you look at established manufacturers (PSA, Renault, Ford etc.), and they offer inferior warranties, most only covering build-quality related issues for a very limited time.
Surely you'd expect a company like Mercedes to have a warranty on their £20,000 entry-level hatch to make a mockery of that on an £8k Kia Picanto, but they only offer a 36 month warranty.
Very rarely have I ever seen a suggestion that VW group appreciate their customers, treating them more like 'cows to milk', so I guess there's no real shock there.
Surely you'd expect a company like Mercedes to have a warranty on their £20,000 entry-level hatch to make a mockery of that on an £8k Kia Picanto, but they only offer a 36 month warranty.
Very rarely have I ever seen a suggestion that VW group appreciate their customers, treating them more like 'cows to milk', so I guess there's no real shock there.
cj2013 said:
I do find it disconcerting that Asian manufacturers like Kia and Hyundai now have minimum no-quibble 5 year warranties on most (if not all) models, yet you look at established manufacturers (PSA, Renault, Ford etc.), and they offer inferior warranties, most only covering build-quality related issues for a very limited time.
Surely you'd expect a company like Mercedes to have a warranty on their £20,000 entry-level hatch to make a mockery of that on an £8k Kia Picanto, but they only offer a 36 month warranty.
Very rarely have I ever seen a suggestion that VW group appreciate their customers, treating them more like 'cows to milk', so I guess there's no real shock there.
i think it was kia who started that offering a 7 year warranty on a rebadged astra. Probably because the koreans know the actual parts cost them bugger all - as someone said earlier - plastic actuators on a M3 - probably a couple of quid manufacturing cost that then adds a couple of grand at 100 quid plus an hour labour rates. They could upgrade those parts to race soec titanium alloys at neglible cost on a 50k plus car - if you look at aftermarket tuner parts they are usually better engineered than OEM and yet cheaper. Surely you'd expect a company like Mercedes to have a warranty on their £20,000 entry-level hatch to make a mockery of that on an £8k Kia Picanto, but they only offer a 36 month warranty.
Very rarely have I ever seen a suggestion that VW group appreciate their customers, treating them more like 'cows to milk', so I guess there's no real shock there.
obviously thry could engineer the cars better and provide better warranties, but its such a big cashcow they'll do as little as they can get away with. As long as people are prepared to pay gobfuls of cash to get their white S lines. Hyundai kia could give away a boot of cocaine and people will still not buy them because the badge wont impress anyone diwn the local virgin gym / latte retailer
Of course the gearbox going kaput has to do with the car being mapped. The box will have a specific torque rating, Vauxhall have used a code to name their boxes for years the f20 was rated to 200lbs/ft the f23 230lbs/ft and so on . On the other hand the Vauxhall m32 gearbox has a vast amount wrong with it and requires a lot of maintainance to keep going, so yes there's 2 sides to this and it could go either way with the Audi box but don't be surprised if it gets nowhere and they wash their hands with it
castex said:
nyxster said:
modern audis are unreliable garbage sold by dealers like mobile phones on 3 year plans. there is no goodwill because all they care about us signing you up for the new 2.5 percent improved model with slightly altered grill and upgraded instagram filter for another 299 a month. the reason they want ten grand for the gearbox is to encourage you to scrap the car and think 'if iI put that money into a new car i'll have a warranty' - they want these kind of HUGE BILLS AHEAD scare stories because it keeps the nervous nellies frightened into their never ending PCP deals, which is why their dealers are now just glorified oil and filter change shops.
I ran a D2 S8 to over 200k - 50k on a transmission is just appaling, but audi don't give a monkeys because once you arent on their 3 year PCP treadmill your value as a customer is zero, they will simply fleece you fir as much as they can to try and make their pcp and service plan deals seem like good value. The fact is all these '16k' repairs are BS figures inflated to maie people say 'thank god i had a warranty!' instead of asking why a 50k plus product that used to be engineered for 150k+ miles suddenly falls apart at 5 years and then magically costs its entire value to repair.
the whole thing is a scam put together after the beancounters at mercedes worked out that their cars were so well engineered they never made any money from people buying new cars or replacing parts - I can remember my mum;s old boss wheeling a SL in to complain the courtesy light bulb had blown. and the dealer replacing it fior free and apologising. Then look what happened - the whole industry now runs on a 3 year lifespan of warranty + oil and filter service plan, then another 2 years for the approved used scheme to prop up the PCP residuals and offload the ex lease cars into the used market, 5 years suddenly things break that cost as much as the car is worth...
Quoted For Truth.I ran a D2 S8 to over 200k - 50k on a transmission is just appaling, but audi don't give a monkeys because once you arent on their 3 year PCP treadmill your value as a customer is zero, they will simply fleece you fir as much as they can to try and make their pcp and service plan deals seem like good value. The fact is all these '16k' repairs are BS figures inflated to maie people say 'thank god i had a warranty!' instead of asking why a 50k plus product that used to be engineered for 150k+ miles suddenly falls apart at 5 years and then magically costs its entire value to repair.
the whole thing is a scam put together after the beancounters at mercedes worked out that their cars were so well engineered they never made any money from people buying new cars or replacing parts - I can remember my mum;s old boss wheeling a SL in to complain the courtesy light bulb had blown. and the dealer replacing it fior free and apologising. Then look what happened - the whole industry now runs on a 3 year lifespan of warranty + oil and filter service plan, then another 2 years for the approved used scheme to prop up the PCP residuals and offload the ex lease cars into the used market, 5 years suddenly things break that cost as much as the car is worth...
nyxster said:
i think it was kia who started that offering a 7 year warranty on a rebadged astra. Probably because the koreans know the actual parts cost them bugger all - as someone said earlier - plastic actuators on a M3 - probably a couple of quid manufacturing cost that then adds a couple of grand at 100 quid plus an hour labour rates. They could upgrade those parts to race soec titanium alloys at neglible cost on a 50k plus car - if you look at aftermarket tuner parts they are usually better engineered than OEM and yet cheaper.
obviously thry could engineer the cars better and provide better warranties, but its such a big cashcow they'll do as little as they can get away with. As long as people are prepared to pay gobfuls of cash to get their white S lines. Hyundai kia could give away a boot of cocaine and people will still not buy them because the badge wont impress anyone diwn the local virgin gym / latte retailer
Definitely.obviously thry could engineer the cars better and provide better warranties, but its such a big cashcow they'll do as little as they can get away with. As long as people are prepared to pay gobfuls of cash to get their white S lines. Hyundai kia could give away a boot of cocaine and people will still not buy them because the badge wont impress anyone diwn the local virgin gym / latte retailer
It's all a bit odd - I've worked in that area in the past for one of the bigger manufacturers, and it often seems to be a game of odds. The gamble seems to be "if we make that out of plastic, we save 5p per unit, which potentially £1m over a production run - will warranty claims for that part exceed that?".
I understand it when you're talking about a Dacia Duster, as the margins are tight, but if it were an Aston Cygnet (Toyo IQ with a badge that is), you'd expect the strategy to be more of quality over corner-cutting.
As you say though, it's just white-goods mixed with fashion. I can't understand why Apple still can't make a phone that doesn't shatter when someone drops it, yet cheaper brands can (and have) for at least 10 years now.
Gary C said:
You would like to think so.
But how does the new owner prove they didn't over Rev it.
A number in the club did buy cars from an opc then have extended warranties refused too.
My understanding is that the timing of the over-revving is recorded, which could prove that it happened before purchase.But how does the new owner prove they didn't over Rev it.
A number in the club did buy cars from an opc then have extended warranties refused too.
Edited by Gary C on Friday 17th March 22:13
Tim
skyrover said:
Can't be doing their brand image much good. People do actually have memories and will increasingly look elsewhere.
I don't think the emissions scandal has really affected VAG that much.skyrover said:
Meanwhile Kia/Hyundai offer a 10 year 100,000 mile warranty in the USA
Thats because its the USA.catman said:
Gary C said:
You would like to think so.
But how does the new owner prove they didn't over Rev it.
A number in the club did buy cars from an opc then have extended warranties refused too.
My understanding is that the timing of the over-revving is recorded, which could prove that it happened before purchase.But how does the new owner prove they didn't over Rev it.
A number in the club did buy cars from an opc then have extended warranties refused too.
Edited by Gary C on Friday 17th March 22:13
Tim
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