£10k gbox bill on 4yr old Audi. Was it ever fit for purpose?

[Heaveho]

I have a friend who ran the workshop at an Audi dealership for some years, and only left recently. 60 % of the jobs were warranty.

[exelero]

briang9 said:

giggity said:

No not just ZF. Multitronic CVT - made by LUK, but ignorant people will be ignorant people.

Their manual boxes are also st, see DUU box issues - dog st),

There is plenty of reliability issues with VAG / Audi only have to look at the oil consumption issues too.

How can a CVT box be Multitronic? Brighten me up pls

[KungFuPanda]

No too sure about the validity of this story but I have a friend who is a tech. He knows a few Audi lads too. Apparently with the 2.0 tfsi oil consumption debacle, Audi are agreeing to rebuild engines which are suffering with the problem. Rebuilt engines with new pistons etc etc. When they take a car in, they test the car for a certain mileage and they measure the oil which has been used. Some of the dealers are syphoning a little oil out prior to measuring what is being used so that it passes for the warranty work. The dealership get 25 hours of labour from Audi plus parts and the customer gets a rebuilt engine so it's a win-win.

[AmitG]

djc206 said:

I'm going to play devils advocate and say that the likes of Audi are building cars for the modern market. People who buy/lease/PCP new cars every 3 years want something nice to sit it with all the latest gadgets and good quality leather seats. Because they change their cars every 3 years they could not give a hoot if it goes bang at 5 years. It's new car sales that drive the business so why wouldn't manufacturers pander to these customers at the expense of the second hand buyers? That's the only logic I can find in it all.

I think this is spot on. VAG are perfectly capable of producing cars that will last 10 years plus if they want to. The problem is that the market doesn't want it. These days the money is in people who want to lease and be put into a new car every 2 - 3 years. They want it to look good and feel nice and be good to drive. They don't really care what happens to it in year 4.

The only real holdouts are the Japanese. Subaru, Toyota/Lexus still believe in long term reliability, but people don't buy them in the same numbers as VAG because they don't have such a good image and they look funny. They tend to get bought by the older crowd who buy the car outright and expect it to outlast them.

All VAG are doing is following the money.

[Hoofy]

AmitG said:

djc206 said:

I'm going to play devils advocate and say that the likes of Audi are building cars for the modern market. People who buy/lease/PCP new cars every 3 years want something nice to sit it with all the latest gadgets and good quality leather seats. Because they change their cars every 3 years they could not give a hoot if it goes bang at 5 years. It's new car sales that drive the business so why wouldn't manufacturers pander to these customers at the expense of the second hand buyers? That's the only logic I can find in it all.

I think this is spot on. VAG are perfectly capable of producing cars that will last 10 years plus if they want to. The problem is that the market doesn't want it. These days the money is in people who want to lease and be put into a new car every 2 - 3 years. They want it to look good and feel nice and be good to drive. They don't really care what happens to it in year 4.

Isn't the resale value important? Won't it put off new buyers? Or is that not an issue with people buying on lease etc?

[djc206]

Hoofy said:

Isn't the resale value important? Won't it put off new buyers? Or is that not an issue with people buying on lease etc?

But resale values are artificially set by manufacturers through the popularity of PCP. Just as many aspire to own a new German car there are many who cannot afford to do so but still want the perceived image boost of owning one and have to settle for second hand. Equally there are many who could but won't stomach the 50% depreciation on a new Mercedes/BMW/Audi in the first 3 years so take their chance with a lightly used model. Chances are they'll be fine, excluding a huge failure like a gearbox they'll still lose less money that the new purchaser.

[Sa Calobra]

Hoofy said:

Isn't the resale value important? Won't it put off new buyers? Or is that not an issue with people buying on lease etc?

With leasing becoming more and more popular who cares?

List prices are ever not climbing so the traditional route of a bank loan+trade in isn't that attractive anymore?

[Crafty_]

It will all change when the depreciation on 3+ year old cars is sky high because of the over supply of cars just come off lease, then lease companies will put their prices up.. then people will have to pick between a lesser spec car or just buying a 2/3 year old car.

[AmitG]

Hoofy said:

Isn't the resale value important? Won't it put off new buyers? Or is that not an issue with people buying on lease etc?

It seems to me that it's not an issue. Here's how I see it.

Let's say the retail price of an Audi is 40k. The first owner will take a lease and return the car after 3 years, probably for a new one. They obviously don't care about the resale value because it's guaranteed in the lease. So the car goes back to the Audi dealer and goes into the approved used network. Because nearly everyone is leasing, all the 3-year old cars are going back to the Audi dealers rather than into the general trade, and the result is that the Audi dealers - in conjunction with the manufacturer - can set the market value. So they will decide that the 3-year old Audi is worth 20k with a 1-year warranty.

After selling it for 20k it will likely disappear into the general trade, with the price set by market forces, and at that point neither Audi nor the dealers care what it is worth, because it's out of the network, and people looking to lease don't care what the car is worth 5 years down the line. It could be worth 2k for all anyone cares.

The only people who would care what it's worth in 5 years' time are cash buyers who intend to keep the car for some time. And these days there aren't enough of those to matter.

[giggity]

briang9 said:

giggity said:

No not just ZF. Multitronic CVT - made by LUK, but ignorant people will be ignorant people.

Their manual boxes are also st, see DUU box issues - dog st),

There is plenty of reliability issues with VAG / Audi only have to look at the oil consumption issues too.

Edited by giggity on Friday 14th April 02:47

you seem to be just confirming the fact you are not particularly bright by continuing to post nonsense...

Why are you getting so upset? Go read and find out for yourself

https://www.audi.co.uk/glossary/m/multitronic.html

http://www.auto-problems.com/transmission-f2/audi-...


http://www.autonews.com/article/20131004/RETAIL05/...

[giggity]

exelero said:

giggity said:

No not just ZF. Multitronic CVT - made by LUK, but ignorant people will be ignorant people.

Their manual boxes are also st, see DUU box issues - dog st),

There is plenty of reliability issues with VAG / Audi only have to look at the oil consumption issues too.

How can a CVT box be Multitronic? Brighten me up pls

Go take a read and brighten yourself up...

https://www.audi.co.uk/glossary/m/multitronic.html

http://www.auto-problems.com/transmission-f2/audi-...


http://www.autonews.com/article/20131004/RETAIL05/...

Edited by giggity on Sunday 16th April 12:17

[Sa Calobra]

giggity said:

Go take a read and brighten yourself up...

https://www.audi.co.uk/glossary/m/multitronic.html

http://www.auto-problems.com/transmission-f2/audi-...


http://www.autonews.com/article/20131004/RETAIL05/...

Edited by giggity on Sunday 16th April 12:17

Does this cover modded cars?

[giggity]

Sa Calobra said:

giggity said:

Go take a read and brighten yourself up...

https://www.audi.co.uk/glossary/m/multitronic.html

http://www.auto-problems.com/transmission-f2/audi-...


http://www.autonews.com/article/20131004/RETAIL05/...

Edited by giggity on Sunday 16th April 12:17

Does this cover modded cars?

It does illustrate the fact it's more than likely not fit for purpose as per the OP query.

The US found that to be the case with Multicronic

[Mr2Mike]

exelero said:

How can a CVT box be Multitronic? Brighten me up pls

You have the question backwards, it's like asking "How can a dwelling be a semi-detached house?". A semi-detached house is a type of dwelling and the Multitronic is a type CVT box.

Edited by Mr2Mike on Tuesday 9th May 11:42

[AnneTeak]

@CraigT007 any update on this?

[RobM77]

Heaveho said:

I have a friend who ran the workshop at an Audi dealership for some years, and only left recently. 60 % of the jobs were warranty.

I'm not sure what you're trying to say, but if it's that "Audi's are unreliable when new", we must remember that the majority of cars that visit a main dealer are within warranty, so the figures will be massively skewed.

[cj2013]

RobM77 said:

'm not sure what you're trying to say, but if it's that "Audi's are unreliable when new", we must remember that the majority of cars that visit a main dealer are within warranty, so the figures will be massively skewed.

I would disagree with your logic.

In my experience in dealing with Ford & Volvo cars, the workshop load was weighted to approximately 70% Servicing, 10% MOTs, 15% Diagnostic/Recovery, 5% Warranty & Service Actions (which is being generous).

Bearing in mind that only in very limited scenarios was the work in the other categories warrantable work. Most of the warranty work I saw was replacing emblems or software calibrations.

When I worked in a VAG service environment, there was a distinct feeling of a lower-quality product. This was also quite obvious by the sheer number of 'possible fixes' that ELSA had for some simple problems that high quality cars shouldn't suffer from.