Air suspension and handling

Air suspension and handling

Author
Discussion

TotalControl

Original Poster:

8,016 posts

197 months

Monday 20th February 2017
quotequote all
Have seen quite a few cars lately having this mod done. Is air suspension now any better than a good coilover setup in regards to handling?

I'm a little old school in thinking it wouldn't be a patch on handling compared to a good damper/spring setup. Have things moved on much here or am I right with my thoughts?

Looks cool though.

Mr-captain

123 posts

99 months

Monday 20th February 2017
quotequote all
TotalControl said:
Have seen quite a few cars lately having this mod done. Is air suspension now any better than a good coilover setup in regards to handling?

I'm a little old school in thinking it wouldn't be a patch on handling compared to a good damper/spring setup. Have things moved on much here or am I right with my thoughts?

Looks cool though.
I agree with you about good damper/spring setup, I always thought air suspension was more of a way to get your car as low as possible and then make it look broke when parked up. I am thinking about after market stuff mainly though, manufacturer fitted kit will probably be fitted for comfort, or for rising ride height in your Ranger Rover when going off road


Edited by Mr-captain on Monday 20th February 11:39

kambites

67,461 posts

220 months

Monday 20th February 2017
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I think "air suspension" covers a lot of different designs with very different characteristics.

Decky_Q

1,500 posts

176 months

Monday 20th February 2017
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I hated the way my s500 handled on air. When I bought it my mechanic recommended swapping it out for coilovers. I opted to ignore this and instead replaced the air shocks and pump etc for a small fortune.... then realised it handled like it was on water.

MorganP104

2,605 posts

129 months

Monday 20th February 2017
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kambites said:
I think "air suspension" covers a lot of different designs with very different characteristics.
Indeed. There's the kind of air suspension fitted to big Mercs, Range Rovers, etc. (ideal for improved ride comfort), and the "pneumatic air ride" type of setup, usually attributed to the modifying scene.

Pintofbest

804 posts

109 months

Monday 20th February 2017
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How about having a bit of both? I think my XJ has air at the back only, standard at the front. Handles pretty well for a big car (the suspension is adaptive) and is also very comfy in the back. The last gen was air all round I think so interesting it has changed so much.

SonicShadow

2,452 posts

153 months

Monday 20th February 2017
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As with many modifications, it depends. Air suspension can handle well if you're prepared to pay the money for it. The cheapest kit available for the chassis just to get those mad lows? Not so much.

kambites

67,461 posts

220 months

Monday 20th February 2017
quotequote all
I think there's always going to be compromises; an air-spring is always going to be affected more by things like temperature variations than a steel spring and isn't fundamentally as linear in response which will make it harder to match damping to spring rates accurately. Air-sprung setups will also have more unsprung weight associated with them than a simple spring on the same vehicle.

I think they can easily be "good enough" for a mainstream car, but we're not going to see them on F1 cars any time soon.

KarlMac

4,457 posts

140 months

Monday 20th February 2017
quotequote all
Decky_Q said:
then realised it handled like it was on water.
Basically this. A lot of people that have just spent a fortune on a cheap air suspension will tell you how great it is, and post a link to a accuair mini on a track day from 3 years ago. However:

Things that use coilovers:
- race cars (actual ones, not scene kiddie)
- Most formula cars

Things that use air:
- buses
- lorries
- luxo barges
- chav'd up diesel Golf's.

Good for comfort, ste for handling.

Mr_Yogi

3,278 posts

254 months

Monday 20th February 2017
quotequote all
KarlMac said:
Basically this. A lot of people that have just spent a fortune on a cheap air suspension will tell you how great it is, and post a link to a accuair mini on a track day from 3 years ago. However:

Things that use coilovers:
- race cars (actual ones, not scene kiddie)
- Most formula cars

Things that use air:
- buses
- lorries
- luxo barges
- chav'd up diesel Golf's.

Good for comfort, ste for handling.
This, all of the cars I can think of which have air suspension (I admit it's not many hehe) have it for comfort or convenience, rather than handling.

My 5 series estate has it at the back for the self leveling suspension. This works really well when travelling back from Wickes, however as I understand it the saloon (coils all around) handles better.

J4CKO

41,287 posts

199 months

Monday 20th February 2017
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My CLS has Airmatic, it suits the car and you can change it from floaty to quite firm, with something inbetween, not driven one on steel springs but apart from the potential cost it is meant to be better in every respect.


akirk

5,376 posts

113 months

Monday 20th February 2017
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just restored the air suspension on my range rover classic - perfect for it, works well on the bumpy roads locally - all that coils would do would be add discomfort without really improving the handling of a jacked up heavy brick...

the z3 though - no interest in having it on air, works really well with the current setup, so I restored that suspension by replacing with new versions of the oem - does its job...

horse for courses...

Saxmaster

42 posts

116 months

Monday 20th February 2017
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I've just had my cayman s fitted with air suspension. And first impressions are their are minimal improvements. Slightly better ride quality. I've not thrown it into any corners at speed as that's just not what I've got the car for.
But my day to day driving I've noticed no different. If I didn't know it was their, I'd not think anything was amiss or different to how a cayman would act/handle
My kit is made by hp drivetech which uses bilstein shocks.

You'll get the people pipe in who never been in an actual air'd car and state this that and that. But the fact is, if my experiences are anything to go by. You'd not know it was their.

Cheap kits id imagine compromise things and instillation will go a long way. But if done right they're fantasic.

And so convenient. For multi stories, speed bumps and getting on ridiculous shell forcourts that seem to be around my area.

Please excuse any grammatical errors. On iPhone.

OverSteery

3,586 posts

230 months

Monday 20th February 2017
quotequote all
J4CKO said:
My CLS has Airmatic, it suits the car and you can change it from floaty to quite firm, with something inbetween, not driven one on steel springs but apart from the potential cost it is meant to be better in every respect.
I would assume that the 'floaty to firm' is a result of adjustable shocks. Whilst air can lower and raise the suspension, I didn't know that spring rates could be adjusted for handling/performance/comfort - or is there some new fangled piece of tech that I don't know about. (I appreciate ride height levelling will change the effective spring rate)

I had air suspension on my Ranger rover - it failed the day after I bought it. I also had it at the back a discovery, that took several weeks to fail...


Edited by OverSteery on Monday 20th February 13:30

kambites

67,461 posts

220 months

Monday 20th February 2017
quotequote all
OverSteery said:
I would assume that the 'floaty to firm' is a result of adjustable shocks. Whilst air can lower and raise the suspension, I didn't know that spring rates could be adjusted - or it there some new fangled piece of tech that I don't know about.
If the car is air-sprung, I think changing the pressure (so changing the ride height or using the suspension to maintain the ride height at different loads) will change the effective spring rate.

OverSteery

3,586 posts

230 months

Monday 20th February 2017
quotequote all
kambites said:
OverSteery said:
I would assume that the 'floaty to firm' is a result of adjustable shocks. Whilst air can lower and raise the suspension, I didn't know that spring rates could be adjusted - or it there some new fangled piece of tech that I don't know about.
If the car is air-sprung, I think changing the pressure (so changing the ride height or using the suspension to maintain the ride height at different loads) will change the effective spring rate.
damn you - you spotted my error at the same time as me, I was too slow to edit my post.

Scho

2,479 posts

202 months

Monday 20th February 2017
quotequote all
Saxmaster said:
I've just had my cayman s fitted with air suspension. And first impressions are their are minimal improvements. Slightly better ride quality. I've not thrown it into any corners at speed as that's just not what I've got the car for.
But my day to day driving I've noticed no different. If I didn't know it was their, I'd not think anything was amiss or different to how a cayman would act/handle
My kit is made by hp drivetech which uses bilstein shocks.

You'll get the people pipe in who never been in an actual air'd car and state this that and that. But the fact is, if my experiences are anything to go by. You'd not know it was their.

Cheap kits id imagine compromise things and instillation will go a long way. But if done right they're fantasic.

And so convenient. For multi stories, speed bumps and getting on ridiculous shell forcourts that seem to be around my area.

Please excuse any grammatical errors. On iPhone.
Hang on, You bought a cayman and you don't want to corner at speed?

Saxmaster

42 posts

116 months

Monday 20th February 2017
quotequote all
Scho said:
Hang on, You bought a cayman and you don't want to corner at speed?
Exactly, I didn't buy it for track days or the cars capabilities etc. Merely the fact I just liked it he car.

SuperchargedVR6

3,138 posts

219 months

Monday 20th February 2017
quotequote all
TotalControl said:
Have seen quite a few cars lately having this mod done. Is air suspension now any better than a good coilover setup in regards to handling?

I'm a little old school in thinking it wouldn't be a patch on handling compared to a good damper/spring setup. Have things moved on much here or am I right with my thoughts?

Looks cool though.
I'm guessing you're referring to this kind of air suspension?

Not a fan personally. Would be cheaper to fill the boot with concrete.


DanielSan

18,747 posts

166 months

Monday 20th February 2017
quotequote all
KarlMac said:
Basically this. A lot of people that have just spent a fortune on a cheap air suspension will tell you how great it is, and post a link to a accuair mini on a track day from 3 years ago. However:

Things that use coilovers:
- race cars (actual ones, not scene kiddie)
- Most formula cars

Things that use air:
- buses
- lorries
- luxo barges
- chav'd up diesel Golf's.

Good for comfort, ste for handling.
It is possible for air ride to be quite good,

US Time Attack winning Impreza - http://www.speedhunters.com/2016/12/life-on-air-co...

There was a car in the Japanese D1 series than ran air ride aswell but I can't remember what it was.