So I did buy some LingLong Ditchfinders
Discussion
Trabi601 said:
There's always someone who'll post this argument. Or one similar.
But you only find out that you should have spent a bit more on tyres under extreme conditions - most people will never find out that the extra stopping distance was the difference between hitting that pedestrian or stopping in time - but I'd prefer not to put this one to the test myself.
It would be very interesting if accident investigators produced some simple statistics regarding tyres.
Trabi, how could anybody produce statistics specifically for tyres for any accident when there are far so many other factors at play?But you only find out that you should have spent a bit more on tyres under extreme conditions - most people will never find out that the extra stopping distance was the difference between hitting that pedestrian or stopping in time - but I'd prefer not to put this one to the test myself.
It would be very interesting if accident investigators produced some simple statistics regarding tyres.
Presumably, you would expect these statistics to support your theory? Personally, I would suspect that the accident investigators are much more likely to conclude that the car was travelling too fast and attribute the accident to driver error.
Surely this comes down to personal responsibility? Some people fit cheaper tyres to their cars. If they do, they need to be prepared to accept that the handling and braking capability of their car may be compromised significantly by these tyres and modify their driving style accordingly.
It's interesting that people who have or see accidents are more inclined to blame they tyres rather than the driver.
Just to be clear, I don't like cheap tyres and I suspect the world would be a better place without them. But they do exist and people buy them so we have to deal wit that.
Trabi601 said:
briang9 said:
alex290568 said:
I'm sorry in advance for this post but I've done 170,000 miles in my E class 320 on budget tyres over the last 4 years.
I've never had an accident, never lost control never killed anyone and I am far from a slow driver.
I've never felt the need to by tyres at £120 a corner when £50 a corner is adequate. I drive to conditions of the road and am forever backing off when in the fast lane and someone fills the stopping distance gap.
I know this goes against the grain of Pisonheads but it's what I've done. Someone not wanting to buy my car because it has budget tyres on can jog on and buy someone elses car. Mine has had a fully synthetic 5w 40 fully synthetic oil change every 10,000 miles, gearbox oil, from suspension refresh and drives like new. Oh but the oil wasn't Mobil 1 either, so that
L be another reason to steer clear.........
well saidI've never had an accident, never lost control never killed anyone and I am far from a slow driver.
I've never felt the need to by tyres at £120 a corner when £50 a corner is adequate. I drive to conditions of the road and am forever backing off when in the fast lane and someone fills the stopping distance gap.
I know this goes against the grain of Pisonheads but it's what I've done. Someone not wanting to buy my car because it has budget tyres on can jog on and buy someone elses car. Mine has had a fully synthetic 5w 40 fully synthetic oil change every 10,000 miles, gearbox oil, from suspension refresh and drives like new. Oh but the oil wasn't Mobil 1 either, so that
L be another reason to steer clear.........
But you only find out that you should have spent a bit more on tyres under extreme conditions - most people will never find out that the extra stopping distance was the difference between hitting that pedestrian or stopping in time - but I'd prefer not to put this one to the test myself.
It would be very interesting if accident investigators produced some simple statistics regarding tyres.
jon- said:
Also I have to note the slight irony in the topic subject, LingLong now make a half decent tyre for the price point, they're certainly not ditch finders in the classic sense of the term.
That'll be the GreenMax. I mentioned them once in a previous iteration of this thread, but the culture-shock was too much for the usual suspects to take in, so don't expect any acknowledgement this time around either.I've tried enough tyres to know that price is not an absolute measure of performance, and while there are some premium products that have an edge (but the laws of diminishing returns means you pay significantly more for them) the bread-and-butter stuff from many well-known brands are trading on their reputation and little more these days.
I'm coming to the conclusion that because of the state of the UK's roads and my experience with tyres being damaged by potholes, debris etc. that you should treat tyres like your engine oil - buy something decent at low cost and be prepared to replace them more often. IMO an inexpensive tyre with fresher rubber and more tread is going to be a better bet than a premium tyre that someone is holding on to despite the age, cuts and wear indicators nearly-but-not-quite at legal minimum to get the most for their money.
Also, the latest trend of judging a tyre because their bulk resellers happen to use Alibaba.com for logistics has to be one of the most comically short-sighted, inward-looking things yet.
Edited by r11co on Tuesday 28th February 12:24
HustleRussell said:
r11co, didn't you try to convince us in another thread that tyres had reached some kind of development ceiling and premium tyres were no longer improving over the years?
Yup - and I repeated the point in that last post - the laws of diminishing returns. I've seen the roadmap for a major tyre manufacturing company, and the amount of technologies being discovered and developed to improve performance have tailed off drastically in the last decade or so. They still have a few things up their sleeve, but the majority of product development now appears quite blatantly to revolve around brand image and changing visual appeal - almost like fashions in clothing.r11co said:
HustleRussell said:
r11co, didn't you try to convince us in another thread that tyres had reached some kind of development ceiling and premium tyres were no longer improving over the years?
Yup - and I repeated the point in that last post - the laws of diminishing returns. I've seen the roadmap for a major tyre manufacturing company, and the amount of technologies being discovered and developed to improve performance have tailed off drastically in the last decade or so. They still have a few things up their sleeve, but the majority of product development now appears quite blatantly to revolve around brand image and changing visual appeal - almost like fashions in clothing.The improvements may be slight year on year, but there are improvements. Usually made by the companies with the biggest development budgets - the premium brands.
With car tyres I've had cheap tyres and expensive ones, sometimes buying cars with newly fitted cheap tyre and needing to change them to something I preferred because I didn't trust them after a wet drive.
As always it's up to the buyer, some people may not know or care what's fitted. I do car what's fitted and will research tyres before buying.
To me the additional cost of decent tyres is pretty negligible in the general scheme of things when running a car or motorbike. I'd rather have all of the stopping and handling grip available for the sake of an extra £20-40 a corner.
Edited by Speed addicted on Tuesday 28th February 13:49
M-SportMatt said:
When my child runs out in front of a car by accident outside school or somewhere, i hope to god its in front of someone with the best possible tyres.
Well, I hate to break it to you but that is never going to happen as the best possible tyres exist only in a testing laboratory somewhere.There's too much hyperbole surrounding the issue of tyres (typified by statements like the one above). The reality is that everyone without exception is running a tyre that is compromised by design and/or use.
r11co said:
Well, I hate to break it to you but that is never going to happen as the best possible tyres exist only in a testing laboratory somewhere.
There's too much hyperbole surrounding the issue of tyres (typified by statements like the one above). The reality is that everyone without exception is running a tyre that is compromised by design and/or use.
The best possible tyres available to the driver of that vehicle you internet pedant.There's too much hyperbole surrounding the issue of tyres (typified by statements like the one above). The reality is that everyone without exception is running a tyre that is compromised by design and/or use.
M-SportMatt said:
The best possible tyres available to the driver of that vehicle you internet pedant.
So do you accept that the best possible tyre available to that person at that moment might be a full set LingLong Greenmax that three months ago they replaced a five year age-hardened set of Bridgestones that had 1mm's worth of legal tread left with because the full set of Linglongs was less than the cost of one replacement Bridgestone that had been wrecked by a pothole strike?I know which I would prefer to be staring down under the circumstances you described.
These are the decisions people make everyday. Things are not as clear-cut as the tyre-hyperbole-spouters make out. I'd rather they'd put a full set of fresh economy tyres with decent tread on their car than compromise with a single new or part-worn big brand to match their three others that are a few hundred miles away from being scrap if that was the choice they were faced with because of their budget.
Edited by r11co on Tuesday 28th February 14:46
BigMon said:
I put Avons on my Fiesta last time which have been pretty good but have thought about trying the Barum Bravuris from National Tyres next time.
They probably class as a budget tyre but there is thread knocking about on here where quite a few people had them fitted and liked them.
I am one of those who has been vocal about my liking of Barum Bravuris tyres. What I would call the "Goldilocks" option - not too cheap, not too expensive... Just right. They probably class as a budget tyre but there is thread knocking about on here where quite a few people had them fitted and liked them.
Also worthy of consideration is the Hankook Ventus Prime 2 (K115). I only went for the Barums because they were on BOGOF at National, and the Hankooks weren't.
If I were a powerfully built company director with a billion horsepower supercar, I'd probably go for a more expensive/premium option. But for my 200bhp Merc Coupe, the Barums are fine and dandy.
r11co said:
So do you accept that the best possible tyre available to that person at that moment might be a full set LingLong Greenmax that three months ago they replaced a five year age-hardened set of Bridgestones that had 1mm's worth of legal tread left with because the full set of Linglongs was less than the cost of one replacement Bridgestone that had been wrecked by a pothole strike?
I know which I would prefer to be staring down under the circumstances you described.
These are the decisions people make everyday. Things are not as clear-cut as the tyre-hyperbole-spouters make out. I'd rather they'd put a full set of fresh economy tyres with decent tread on their car than compromise with a single new or part-worn big brand to match their three others that are a few hundred miles away from being scrap if that was the choice they were faced with because of their budget.
No, because theyd be 5 years old and worn out, which is not what i said id wish for, i wished for the best available....I know which I would prefer to be staring down under the circumstances you described.
These are the decisions people make everyday. Things are not as clear-cut as the tyre-hyperbole-spouters make out. I'd rather they'd put a full set of fresh economy tyres with decent tread on their car than compromise with a single new or part-worn big brand to match their three others that are a few hundred miles away from being scrap if that was the choice they were faced with because of their budget.
Edited by r11co on Tuesday 28th February 14:46
What I hope is the tyres are the best performing and within the manufactures age/wear spec for that performance like any other normal non pedant internet arguer.
You're being massively pedantic. I'm 8 months into a set of RE050's and i'd be mightily surprised if a brand new set of ling long spacco buyers would stop better in an emergency.
You can argue as much as you like and feel free to continue to do so, but as I said if my kid ran out in the road i hope to god its in front of someone like me and not someone like you.
Edited by M-SportMatt on Tuesday 28th February 15:07
M-SportMatt said:
No, because theyd be 5 years old and worn out, which is not what i said id wish for, i wished for the best available....
The best available to that person with their limited budget being three almost worn out but legal big-brand tyres and one three-month old tyre of the same brand, or a matched set of four three-month old tyres of a 'lesser' brand.As the person staring down the bonnet take your pick, because those are the only options available in this particular round of the game. Wishing doesn't come into it. Which way would you have advised them to go three months before you are stood in front of them?
M-SportMatt said:
You can argue as much as you like and feel free to continue to do so, but as I said if my kid ran out in the road i hope to god its in front of someone like me and not someone like you.
Yeah, because it is a simple good person/bad person binary issue like you make it out to be (my point/reality being that it exactly isn't).
Edited by r11co on Tuesday 28th February 15:35
r11co said:
Yeah, because it is a simple good person/bad person binary issue like you make it out to be (my point/reality being that it exactly isn't).
Id advise them not to run a car if they cant afford to run one properly.Edited by r11co on Tuesday 28th February 15:35
You are also not considering what I said, i didn't comment on the dilemma faced by people who cant afford to run a car properly. I just said if it was my child running out I would hope it was in front of a car giving them the best chance that is all, and the best chance is with the best performing tyres in an emergency situation.
These tyres are not ling long cant affordo's
M-SportMatt said:
otolith said:
Or to run one with tyres they can afford.
Nope, as stated above that's not my advice Gassing Station | General Gassing | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff