So I did buy some LingLong Ditchfinders

[Rovnumpty]

Before this degenerates into a ' I spent more on my incredibly expensive tyres than you did' type of thread, I'll get my tuppence in.

I've run top of the range tyres and and I've run cheapest of the cheap, and generally, a lot comes down to the car they're fitted to and how you drive.

Would never fit a pirelli tyre again. Ok in the dry, but shockingly poor in the wet. Not keen on goodyear either. Used to run michelin all the time but was seriously unimpressed with a couple of sets about 15 years, so stayed clear since. On cheap side, had some crap fitted to the TT now and then, but I'm not willing to pay for good stuff to get trashed on track days. Flip side of that is I've had some excellent cheap stuff as well - nexens were surprisingly good, and the toyos on it just now have been ok so far.

I remember hearing or reading (might even have been on here) that the vast majority of cheap tyres are simply older compounds and tread patterns from the bigger manafacturers which have been licensed out to smaller companies, so essentially your linglong dithfinder might have been a michelin pilot 10 or 15 years ago.

[otolith]

Obviously one must drive to the capabilities of the car and then everything will be fine. This is why it is not necessary to deal with bald tyres, knackered shocks, defective brakes or excessive steering play until MOT time, just drive a bit slower.

[Ransoman]

There are good and bad tyres in all price ranges.

So far the best I have used have been Uniroyal Rainsport 3's. Kumho Ecsta's are great too but wear way too fast and when they have worn the first 3mm they loose a lot of forward grip.

I would never ever touch a set of event's ever again. They came fitted to my Giulietta and are(were) my Father in Law's tyre of choice and they are lethal in all conditions. Even in the dry they ruin the feel of the steering. I wouldn't touch Wan-li's either.

[pits]

brrapp said:

Conscript said:

brrapp said:

Conscript said:

brrapp said:

Dr Doofenshmirtz said:

pits said:

Wait till it rains it you need to do an emergency stop

Assuming he's driving sensibly and paying attention, it shouldn't be an issue.

^^^^This^^^^

My daily driver is an old Ford Ranger pickup, rear wheel drive most of the time and when the back is empty, it's lethal on wet or frosty roads. Even with top quality tyres, it's by far the worst/best vehicle I've driven for going sideways on roundabouts. I'm pretty sure it's far more dangerous than any modern car running the cheapest 'ditchfinders' available but I and many others drive vehicles like this on a daily basis and don't die more often then the rest of the population. We just (mostly) drive to suit the road/vehicle conditions.

Surely the very definition of an "emergency" condition is one which exceeds normal driving conditions unexpectedly? Which can still happen, even when driving "sensibly and paying attention".

Stating that you just drive to suit the road/vehicle conditions is a bit of a pointless thing to say in response, because by definition, you cannot account for emergencies. If you could, they wouldn't be emergencies.

You drive at a speed that you will be able to stop within the limit of your vision. If you're driving a Golf R with 4wd, anti lock, traction control, brand new Continentals, round a blind corner with 60m clear road in sight, you drive at a speed that you can stop within 30m. If I'm driving my old pickup round the same corner in the opposite direction, I'll be driving at a speed that I can stop within the same distance. Our speeds may be different, but we are equally safe.

So would you drive at say, a maximum 5MPH through a residential street with cars parked on either side? Because that's exactly the sort of situation where, even if you are alert and driving sensibly and safely, a child is likely to run out after a ball from behind a large car, or a dog or something, well within the limit of your vision. And it's those emergencies where you really find out how well your car can stop.

Obviously even a car with good quality tyres might have trouble anchoring up in such a short distance. But the point is, the only way you could guarantee that you could account for such emergencies is to drive at a crawl everywhere, because that's the only way you can be sure that your car can come to a stop almost immediately.

I'm not really arguing about the merits of premium tyres here, just the commonly cited defence of budget tyres that "I don't need good tyres because I just drive a bit slower/I'm not racing around everywhere." Unless you are driving at a crawl everywhere, you are still going to be quite often driving at speeds where you are susceptible to an emergency situation. The difference in stopping distance between a budget tyre and a premium tyre might only be a few feet at these speeds, but even so, it could be enough to avoid a collision.

How much you are willing to pay to mitigate that risk is up to you of course, but please don't fall into the trap of believing that you are able to completely immunise yourself from situations where a better quality tyre might have helped, just by slowing down.

EDIT: Just to clarify, I've realised I've used "budget/premium" as synonyms for "poor quality/high quality" above. I am of course aware that it's not always that simple and that there are budget tyres which are good and similarly, premium branded tyres which are a bit crap. I personally try to buy good quality tyres, but I don't want people to think my opinion is born out of snobbishness.

Edited by Conscript on Thursday 23 February 10:00

I understand exactly what you are saying and agree to an extent, but in the long list of things that can contribute to an accident, while tyre choice will have a small part to play,I don't think that it is at all significant.

If you look at top athletes all competing at similar levels of skill and fitness, the tiniest thing such as the length of shoelaces or the exact composition of their breakfast will have an effect on winning a medal or not. If you look at the average guy going for a jog around the park, there are far more significant factors involved.

Exactly the same as tyre choice in cars, for supercars being driven to the max by expert drivers, tyre choice will make a significant difference. For Joe Public taking a run down to the local supermarket, driver observation, alertness, type of car, weather conditions, condition of brakes, road surfaces, and even wear levels on tyres, are all far more significant than choice of tyre manufacturer.

Yeah but Mo Farah isn't going to go out for a jog around town in some £8 Hi Tec trainers is he

[beko1987]

I spent 2 days looking at different tyres this week as I am in the market and settled on Avon ZV5's. They weren't too far off the cheapest tyre I could find either @ £48.something each fitted.

I nearly went for the cheapest one just because anything will be better than whats on my car at the moment (either worn to the blocks or perished/cracked sidewalls with good tread) but I wanted them to not wear down quickly so I get some use out of them. Up and down the M40 every day I want them to last longer than the rainsport 3's I had on an old car, which were ace but wore down quickly on a light Citroen ZX

Hopefully Avon will be fine for my 90bhp Xantia shed. I need a tyre for my perished spare too, might try out a bargain basement tyre for that, or fit a part worn.

[fivepointnine]

beko1987 said:

I spent 2 days looking at different tyres this week as I am in the market and settled on Avon ZV5's. They weren't too far off the cheapest tyre I could find either @ £48.something each fitted.

I nearly went for the cheapest one just because anything will be better than whats on my car at the moment (either worn to the blocks or perished/cracked sidewalls with good tread) but I wanted them to not wear down quickly so I get some use out of them. Up and down the M40 every day I want them to last longer than the rainsport 3's I had on an old car, which were ace but wore down quickly on a light Citroen ZX

Hopefully Avon will be fine for my 90bhp Xantia shed. I need a tyre for my perished spare too, might try out a bargain basement tyre for that, or fit a part worn.

Avon's are actually great tyres, had some ZV7's on my Accord type R and had no complaints.

[Mr2Mike]

brrapp said:

Exactly the same as tyre choice in cars, for supercars being driven to the max by expert drivers, tyre choice will make a significant difference. For Joe Public taking a run down to the local supermarket, driver observation, alertness, type of car, weather conditions, condition of brakes, road surfaces, and even wear levels on tyres, are all far more significant than choice of tyre manufacturer.

Given that no one has any influence over the weather or road surface, and that anyone not paying 100% attention when they are driving should be castrated with a rusty spoon anyway, tyre choice is a significant factor in stopping distances. In poor weather especially budget tyres have regularly fallen well behind even mid-range offerings.

Suggesting a few feet of stopping distance may be irrelevant when someone is e.g. pissing around with their phone or ipod is missing the point a bit.

[Trabi601]

Rovnumpty said:

I remember hearing or reading (might even have been on here) that the vast majority of cheap tyres are simply older compounds and tread patterns from the bigger manafacturers which have been licensed out to smaller companies, so essentially your linglong dithfinder might have been a michelin pilot 10 or 15 years ago.

That's what the tyre fitter tells you when he only has Dark Horse Super Maxi Eco Grip Road Stones on his shelf and wants you to buy them, as they make him a bigger cash margin than selling you a set of premiums.

[JS1500]

fivepointnine said:

...I have shockingly expensive Bridgestones on my 350bhp RWD car and they are horrible in all conditions, I am pretty sure Maxxis tyres would be an improvement.

Yes, I had original fitment Bridgestones on my V8 Vantage and found them awful. It was like night and day when I replaced them with Michelin Pilot Super Sports.

I'd put Super Sports on my 996 but they're about to be replaced (or have been?) by 'Pilot Sport 4S' which are only available in 19"+... so I'll probably go for Pilot Sport 4 instead.

Uniroyal RS2s were a great mid range tyre but the reviews for the RS3 were never as good.

Dunlop Sport Maxx were rubbish on my RS4 - RainSport 2s were a vast improvement.

Basically, the big names sometimes make stty tyres too.

[otolith]

otolith said:

alex290568 said:

I'm sorry in advance for this post but I've done 170,000 miles in my E class 320 on budget tyres over the last 4 years.
I've never had an accident, never lost control never killed anyone and I am far from a slow driver.

Hmm, my E320CDI came with Maxtreks on the back and Evergreens on the front, and they are crap. I'm booking it in today for some proper rubber.

And, having now fitted a set of Goodyear F1A3, those ditchfinders really were dire. Much better grip in traction, cornering and braking.

[M3333]

TooMany2cvs said:

M3333 said:

I put a set of Lasso on my e36 328i. ... Bridgestone make them I am told...

By the person that sold them to you?

He was wrong. They aren't. Lassa are a Turkish company, but they have been JV partners with Bridgestone since the '70s. Brisa, Lassa's parent, make some tyres for Bridgestone, but Bridgestone have seven of their own European factories, too. If you were going to say X make Y, it would be less inaccurate to say Lassa make Bridgestones, but still a long way from the reality.

That's me told then

To be fair the garage selling them didn't tell me that. It was google but thanks for clarifying. They seem decent enough for the money but like a lot of tyres I find its when they are half worn that the difference really starts to notice in performance. Shall post when the time comes.

[PhillipM]

Mr2Mike said:

Given that no one has any influence over the weather or road surface, and that anyone not paying 100% attention when they are driving should be castrated with a rusty spoon anyway, tyre choice is a significant factor in stopping distances. In poor weather especially budget tyres have regularly fallen well behind even mid-range offerings.

Suggesting a few feet of stopping distance may be irrelevant when someone is e.g. pissing around with their phone or ipod is missing the point a bit.

Especially if the pillock pissing about on the phone is the one that's just pulled out on you from a junction in the rain...

[Otispunkmeyer]

I've had some Land Sails on my car up until not too long ago. I didn't put them on, they dealer fit them and proclaimed "new tyres on this one sir... A good deal".

Can't say they were dangerous. They gripped fine for the mediocre amount of torque they would have to deal with.

Totally made of cheese though as they didn't really last as long as my tyres usually do. Also when I got a new set of name brand tyres my slightly off to cock steering wheel was suddenly returned to being perfectly centered again.

Have to say in all my time I have found Michelin's to be best (but they are dear) and Dunlop's too.

[nobrakes]

Even a 1 car length shorter stopping distance from circa 40mph can make significant difference to those involved in an accident.

That kind of distance can be the difference between a minor bump or quite a thump, either to the car (or pedestrian) in front.

Also, cheapos will initially feel better than your worn out premiums, so that they probably do feel fine when you get them.

[Escort3500]

wormus said:

I put Falken 452s on my 800hp Monaro a few years ago and they worked great initially...in the dry. Totally st when part worn and atrocious in the wet.

I put 452s on my 320d as I couldn't afford to shell out on Michelins at the time. OK in the dry, carp in the wet and lasted only 8k miles before they got so bad I put Michelins on - world of difference even on my mundane daily driver. Wouldn't go near Falkens again.

[anonymous-user]

Are any 'official' statistics available which confirm that a higher proportion of accidents are caused by 'ditchfinders' than 'premium' tyres?

Should insurance companies ask what tyres are fitted as part of their quotation process?

Edited by anonymous-user on Sunday 26th February 09:25

[Greendubber]

Otispunkmeyer said:

I've had some Land Sails on my car up until not too long ago. I didn't put them on, they dealer fit them and proclaimed "new tyres on this one sir... A good deal".

Can't say they were dangerous. They gripped fine for the mediocre amount of torque they would have to deal with.

Totally made of cheese though as they didn't really last as long as my tyres usually do. Also when I got a new set of name brand tyres my slightly off to cock steering wheel was suddenly returned to being perfectly centered again.

Have to say in all my time I have found Michelin's to be best (but they are dear) and Dunlop's too.

I was shocked to see some fitted to an ex demo Ford Mustang at a main dealers the other day.

[*Al*]

I bought a LS1 Monaro with a fresh set of 'Wanli' tyres, without even pushing the car the tyres were absolutely terrible and in the wet close to dangerous.

[ChemicalChaos]

There is definitely some blurring of the lines these days - some budget tyres are good and I respect that, and some premium tyres are appalling.

Case in point: I had a set of General Grabber all terrains on my Range Rover, after about 9 months the rubber seemingly turned to plastic and delivered almost no grip on wet tarmac - roundabout cornering at modest normal speeds could result in an interesting 4 wheel drift on the right sort of greasy tarmac. Stopping even moderately briskly for suicidal wildlife also had the abs cutting in. However they still wore away ridiculously quickly.
Before anyone says it, no it wasn't normal for off road tyres. Both the BFGoodrich ones on my previous car and the even knobblier Goodyear ones I now run are a model of perfect behaviour on wet roads.

I still won't buy budget brands, just to be on the safe side, even though I do respect some will have been a lot better than this. But I can now also cross General off the list of premium brands I buy.

[GC8]

Id say that General have always been cheap and nasty.