The death of the slow car
Discussion
blugnu said:
I've just looked for it's power curve and apparently it peaks beyond 6,000rpm.
5.5k rpm for me.... I have to thrash the living crap out of this poor car to make progress. sometimes just keeping up with the flow of traffic off the lights!( never 1st gear, but 2nd into 3rd. )
http://rototest-research.eu/popup/performancegraph...
Edited by SystemParanoia on Friday 24th February 18:31
I had a car like that a couple of years ago - Mazda 323f 1.5.
On my way to work there was a roundabout where I could carry some speed, followed by a 3 lane stretch with 2 lanes up the hill. I'd get in the overtaking lane and then go backwards!
Solved it by getting a BMW 325ti and selling the Mazda.
On my way to work there was a roundabout where I could carry some speed, followed by a 3 lane stretch with 2 lanes up the hill. I'd get in the overtaking lane and then go backwards!
Solved it by getting a BMW 325ti and selling the Mazda.
csd19 said:
Yipper said:
V10Ace said:
TheJimi said:
Yipper said:
To some degree, but not completely, speed is commoditising. Tech today is so good, so cheap, and so widely available. You can spend ~£40k on a Golf R and a remap and make it as fast as a ~£240k Ferrari F12. And still do the B&Q run in it. The gap between supercars and everyday cars is closing faster than ever.
You *cannot* be serious!
A remapped Golf R is a fast as an F12?
Right. Got you.
LOL
- Golf R remapped 10.8 seconds on quarter mile (cost ~£40k):
Happy to help update your knowledge further
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LE4QKbbjZx4
Stage 1 remap I guess
Don said:
The goalposts have moved. There are still relatively quick cars and relatively slow ones.
2017 Tesla Model S P100D 'Ludicrous Plus' Upgrade. 0..60 time 2.3 seconds. Quarter mile 10.5 seconds.
That is f
k me fast and no doubt about it.
Out of petrol cars you need a Bugatti Veyron to beat it. A Tesla (despite being expensive) is a good deal cheaper...
Wonder which body shells would fit on top of a Tesla's undergubbins... Ultimate sleeper. 2017 Tesla Model S P100D 'Ludicrous Plus' Upgrade. 0..60 time 2.3 seconds. Quarter mile 10.5 seconds.
That is f
k me fast and no doubt about it.Out of petrol cars you need a Bugatti Veyron to beat it. A Tesla (despite being expensive) is a good deal cheaper...
TheJimi said:
Yipper said:
To some degree, but not completely, speed is commoditising. Tech today is so good, so cheap, and so widely available. You can spend ~£40k on a Golf R and a remap and make it as fast as a ~£240k Ferrari F12. And still do the B&Q run in it. The gap between supercars and everyday cars is closing faster than ever.
You *cannot* be serious!
A remapped Golf R is a fast as an F12?
Right. Got you.
LOL
One is an anodyne kraut box and the other is possibly the ultimate expression of automotive mechanical engineering.
Interesting thread this, I drive an old Jag XJR as a daily, 370hp when new, 0-60 time of just over 5 seconds and described by Clarkson back in 1997 as 'bonkers fast'. On an old video I saw he races one in a straight line against a Merc convertible, Porsche Boxster and Aston DB7 and it utterly demolishes them. Now it struggles with a 330d! All about the torque it seems
These days cars can be surprisingly quick unless you're on a sports bike and then the vast majority of what are considered fast cars aren't fast in comparison.
I'm still mostly in the car camp but I do own a GSX-R600 which is a £5k bike that can post faster times than everything spoke about in this thread. For the non-bike folk, this is only a mid-range sports bike, that are lot of bikes out there that are much faster than the 600.
I do think car's have now reached such a level of performance that I question how much further they should go given the standard of driving on our roads.
I'm still mostly in the car camp but I do own a GSX-R600 which is a £5k bike that can post faster times than everything spoke about in this thread. For the non-bike folk, this is only a mid-range sports bike, that are lot of bikes out there that are much faster than the 600.
I do think car's have now reached such a level of performance that I question how much further they should go given the standard of driving on our roads.
K8-600 said:
These days cars can be surprisingly quick unless you're on a sports bike and then the vast majority of what are considered fast cars aren't fast in comparison.
I'm still mostly in the car camp but I do own a GSX-R600 which is a £5k bike that can post faster times than everything spoke about in this thread. For the non-bike folk, this is only a mid-range sports bike, that are lot of bikes out there that are much faster than the 600.
I do think car's have now reached such a level of performance that I question how much further they should go given the standard of driving on our roads.
The same could be said of 200HP bikes? As for a 600 being 'faster', well on the road my old 200HP Caterham scalped a few 600's and bigger I'm still mostly in the car camp but I do own a GSX-R600 which is a £5k bike that can post faster times than everything spoke about in this thread. For the non-bike folk, this is only a mid-range sports bike, that are lot of bikes out there that are much faster than the 600.
I do think car's have now reached such a level of performance that I question how much further they should go given the standard of driving on our roads.
It's fairly pointless comparing straightline speed of anything with motorcycles.
shielsy said:
Good call on the quality of pretty much all every day cars now. This also goes to show that things do move on... Things get better, faster, more efficient and more reliable.
And come on chaps, of course you can use 100bhp+ per bloody ton on the roads. There is a time and a place for it, but there are still plenty of places.
Yes, you can, but some good brakes and tyres would be nice for when you encounter your next unpredictable, erratic driver!And come on chaps, of course you can use 100bhp+ per bloody ton on the roads. There is a time and a place for it, but there are still plenty of places.
Personally, I'd favour something with about 100bhp/ton and sub-1000kg, with an engine you have to work to get the power from.
Then the onus is on the driver to conserve momentum through manoeuvres and keep the engine in the boil.
I liked the Puma 1.7 I had. Peugeot 106 rallye would be good. Are there any modern equivalents, or has "safety" made them all too heavy?
One thing modern cars have taught me is just how much of a difference the whole setup of a car can make rather than the straight line performance which traditionally got most of the attention. Take my Swift Sport which as standard has lowered sports suspension, quick steering ratio, stiff chassis, close ratio gearbox, high lift came, a lightened flywheel, quick throttle response and more which all adds up to an involving and fun driving experience albeit at the expense of some refinement. Whereas your average mundanao box will feel the opposite despite a similar power to weight etc. so anyone in the traditional mindset of thinking a supposedly sporty car won't be anything special due to it's average power output is really missing the point.
Hot hatches and turbo diesels are to blame. Hatches with 300+ bhp, the AWD ones with launch control hitting low 4's and mid 3s up to 62. Absolutely crazy.
Near enough every BMW diesel you see has 250lbs/ft of torque, more powerful models even higher by definition. I had a corsa as a first car, 1.2, max speed of 110 (I know I tried) and about 12 seconds to 60. I'm by no means old but I see 18 year olds driving 3 series every where, capable of 155. Sheesh
Near enough every BMW diesel you see has 250lbs/ft of torque, more powerful models even higher by definition. I had a corsa as a first car, 1.2, max speed of 110 (I know I tried) and about 12 seconds to 60. I'm by no means old but I see 18 year olds driving 3 series every where, capable of 155. Sheesh
Mr Tidy said:
caelite said:
He loves it, can't say I really disagree, especially considering these small engined SUVs are considered the slow side of normal nowadays.
Well that may be because they are the dismal side of normal! My 2002 E46 325ti Compact is quoted as doing 0-62 in 7 seconds - no wonder all these under-engined bean cans are always getting in my way!
The modern under engined crossovers really are no more sluggish than a few year old 'normal' hatch, and the majority of them have some pretty fancy damper/suspension equipment so they really drive no worse.
It's more the drivers than anything else, the reason my grandad bought it was because my gran was having trouble climbing into their focus with her f
ked hip 
, naturally they attract 'that type' of drivers. Yipper said:
V10Ace said:
TheJimi said:
Yipper said:
To some degree, but not completely, speed is commoditising. Tech today is so good, so cheap, and so widely available. You can spend ~£40k on a Golf R and a remap and make it as fast as a ~£240k Ferrari F12. And still do the B&Q run in it. The gap between supercars and everyday cars is closing faster than ever.
You *cannot* be serious!
A remapped Golf R is a fast as an F12?
Right. Got you.
LOL
- Golf R remapped 10.8 seconds on quarter mile (cost ~£40k):
- Ferrari F12 10.9 seconds on quarter mile (cost ~£240k):
Happy to help update your knowledge further
http://www.tuningwerkes.com/home/365-apr-stage-3-t...
£8k.
And I wonder how long THAT lasts...
GroundEffect said:
That Golf kit is:
http://www.tuningwerkes.com/home/365-apr-stage-3-t...
£8k.
And I wonder how long THAT lasts...
£8k plus fitting!http://www.tuningwerkes.com/home/365-apr-stage-3-t...
£8k.
And I wonder how long THAT lasts...
yonex said:
K8-600 said:
These days cars can be surprisingly quick unless you're on a sports bike and then the vast majority of what are considered fast cars aren't fast in comparison.
I'm still mostly in the car camp but I do own a GSX-R600 which is a £5k bike that can post faster times than everything spoke about in this thread. For the non-bike folk, this is only a mid-range sports bike, that are lot of bikes out there that are much faster than the 600.
I do think car's have now reached such a level of performance that I question how much further they should go given the standard of driving on our roads.
The same could be said of 200HP bikes? As for a 600 being 'faster', well on the road my old 200HP Caterham scalped a few 600's and bigger I'm still mostly in the car camp but I do own a GSX-R600 which is a £5k bike that can post faster times than everything spoke about in this thread. For the non-bike folk, this is only a mid-range sports bike, that are lot of bikes out there that are much faster than the 600.
I do think car's have now reached such a level of performance that I question how much further they should go given the standard of driving on our roads.
It's fairly pointless comparing straightline speed of anything with motorcycles.
I love both but biking really is an experience and the performance to be had for peanuts is astonishing.
Evilex said:
I liked the Puma 1.7 I had. Peugeot 106 rallye would be good. Are there any modern equivalents, or has "safety" made them all too heavy?
http://www.pistonheads.com/regulars/ph-fleet/suzuki-swift-sport-ph-fleet/35450Hurry up, the next gen will be turbocharged.
Mine was great but needed more space. If they did the 5 door at the time I might have gotten by.
Edited by Onehp on Saturday 25th February 17:30
I commute in a car with 60bhp that apparently does 0-60 in about 14 seconds, some fairly ridiculous hills as well (Brassknocker going into Bath for one).
It's never felt 'slow' in terms of holding anyone up, and even with a less than aggressive pull away from lights etc and no speeding whatsoever I comfortably pull away from 99% of cars on any given day.
Cars may be getting quicker but that doesn't mean that power is being used. I always catch cars up the lengthy steep 50mph hill I travel every day long before I've reached the speed limit.
I used to do the route in a 172 Cup and it honestly hasn't made any difference (apart from being in a higher gear on those hills back then), its now just far more fuel efficient.
It's never felt 'slow' in terms of holding anyone up, and even with a less than aggressive pull away from lights etc and no speeding whatsoever I comfortably pull away from 99% of cars on any given day.
Cars may be getting quicker but that doesn't mean that power is being used. I always catch cars up the lengthy steep 50mph hill I travel every day long before I've reached the speed limit.
I used to do the route in a 172 Cup and it honestly hasn't made any difference (apart from being in a higher gear on those hills back then), its now just far more fuel efficient.
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