RE: New Ford Fiesta ST - official!
Discussion
skinnyman said:
Personally think the latest Focus ST is the most aggressive and nicest looking so far, and actually looks better as an estate than a hatch.
I own one, so slightly biased opinion, but there we go.
Have to say I'm a bit of a fan of the Focus ST in black! How do they drive? I own one, so slightly biased opinion, but there we go.
Okay, so I lease a current mk7.5 Red Ed (140) Fiesta. It uses the 1.0 3cyl engine. Some thoughts.
Engine
It's the natural progression. The 1.0 3cyl is a great unit, and it's won engine of the year at least once to back that up. Of course 1.0 it's a bit gutless low down, but I mean low down because it spools at about 1900. I could understand how people might think of it as strained below that, but ffs 1900 and then you have the turbo - people are spoiled these days. The 1.5 will fix most of that issue anyway by throwing a bit more displacement at at it and I think people might be surprised at how much they like it. New unit as well isn't it the 1.5?
Rest of the drivetrain
The thing that lets the current 1.0 down is the heavy flywheel which was surely a decision made to improve economy. It hangs revs like a motherf
ker which affects how sporty it feels when coming up through the gears quickly. The engine encourages this because it revs right out so you end up exacerbating the issue unless you make extremely slow shifts.
On the way back down there is noticeably more inertia due to the 3cyl and flywheel. I'd hope that this new ST addresses both points because if not they are almost dealbreakers when you use the car ever day.
Chassis
Come on PH, press for weight figures at least. If you can't get information like this from the PR bods the articles have no USP and just read like regurgitation from the PR people. The chassis will likely be helped (yes I do believe this) by a tad more weight over the nose vs the 1.0 to aid traction. Speaking of which you would hope the traction control was updated because it is shocking in the 7.5 and feels like a very old system.
Driving modes are redundant and make the experience feel fake - I certainly don't want my steering weight messing with. Would have liked to have seen 2 at most if it 'had' to be done. The one exception I would have given to this feature is if they had EDC because the biggest issue with Fiestas is the fact that you are stuck with one of several compromised damping setups. Titaniums and such are about right for comfort but you lose all that when you go to the ST (which many owners think is too harsh). EDC is the natural solution to this and is well proven yet the Fiesta didn't get it which I guess is understandable at the cost but annoying.
Interior
As I see it punters want tons of features but no buttons to operate them and no screens which make those features difficult/dangerous to access when on the move. The mistake Ford make on the 7/7.5 was twofold:
- They didn't remove buttons where possible. So the radio has different modes but instead of a mode switcher button (in practice you rarely change mode) they used 5 great big stonking separate buttons. Same with radio presets, instead of just providing a way to seek they gave an entire number pad double the size of an early 90s Nokia.
- They used piano black which looks awful. The rest of the dash is low-reflection material, and the piano black looks even worse contrasted with it. By far the biggest Mk7/7.5 Fiesta interior sin.
The new dash looks better to me. Far more resolved and addresses both points EXCEPT the screen. If you notice in the shots they made a lot of room in the centre of the dials for a screen so why is this separate one needed? Mazda/Merc/other marques seem addicted to these also which would be fine except as far as I'm aware they don't fold away (if they did this would solve all issues). The only saving grace I can think of is that Ford gave dash illumination dimmer controls in the current gen so hopefully you'll be able to turn the thing off.
Exterior
Oh dear. You have to remember that the 7/7.5 are extremely old cars now, and though in my opinion the styling has aged brilliantly clearly Ford were at the point where they could hold back the urge to change it no longer and align it with the rest of the current models.
It's sad that the rear lights got relocated as they are one of the more distinctive features. They tried to turn the rear into the Focus and made it into a B-max/Base model A-Class/Peugeot mish-mash. If you can live with it then fair enough but it's a noticeable regression in my opinion. The alloys in the blue press car are horrible but are more open to personal taste I guess.
The blue in the press car looks rubbish because it is very similar to a colour you see a LOT of Titanium spec current gen Fiestas in. It's sad that they can't just view Nitrous Blue (like on the Focus) as their 'ST' colour like they did with orange in the past. A Fiesta in Nitrous Blue would be awesome. On the exhaust front it's nice to see them being restrained and not like VW. This is not a supercar, 2 is just fine.
Oh and I'm sure the artificial sound enhancement will be able to be turned off. As long as you can do that and leave it off I don't mind although it's annoying that a few quid will have gone into developing and installing it. You have to remember there are a bunch of people out there who love DSG farts and RS fake whooshes so I suppose Ford have to give those dribblers something to bring them over to Fiestas.
Engine
It's the natural progression. The 1.0 3cyl is a great unit, and it's won engine of the year at least once to back that up. Of course 1.0 it's a bit gutless low down, but I mean low down because it spools at about 1900. I could understand how people might think of it as strained below that, but ffs 1900 and then you have the turbo - people are spoiled these days. The 1.5 will fix most of that issue anyway by throwing a bit more displacement at at it and I think people might be surprised at how much they like it. New unit as well isn't it the 1.5?
Rest of the drivetrain
The thing that lets the current 1.0 down is the heavy flywheel which was surely a decision made to improve economy. It hangs revs like a motherf
ker which affects how sporty it feels when coming up through the gears quickly. The engine encourages this because it revs right out so you end up exacerbating the issue unless you make extremely slow shifts. On the way back down there is noticeably more inertia due to the 3cyl and flywheel. I'd hope that this new ST addresses both points because if not they are almost dealbreakers when you use the car ever day.
Chassis
Come on PH, press for weight figures at least. If you can't get information like this from the PR bods the articles have no USP and just read like regurgitation from the PR people. The chassis will likely be helped (yes I do believe this) by a tad more weight over the nose vs the 1.0 to aid traction. Speaking of which you would hope the traction control was updated because it is shocking in the 7.5 and feels like a very old system.
Driving modes are redundant and make the experience feel fake - I certainly don't want my steering weight messing with. Would have liked to have seen 2 at most if it 'had' to be done. The one exception I would have given to this feature is if they had EDC because the biggest issue with Fiestas is the fact that you are stuck with one of several compromised damping setups. Titaniums and such are about right for comfort but you lose all that when you go to the ST (which many owners think is too harsh). EDC is the natural solution to this and is well proven yet the Fiesta didn't get it which I guess is understandable at the cost but annoying.
Interior
As I see it punters want tons of features but no buttons to operate them and no screens which make those features difficult/dangerous to access when on the move. The mistake Ford make on the 7/7.5 was twofold:
- They didn't remove buttons where possible. So the radio has different modes but instead of a mode switcher button (in practice you rarely change mode) they used 5 great big stonking separate buttons. Same with radio presets, instead of just providing a way to seek they gave an entire number pad double the size of an early 90s Nokia.
- They used piano black which looks awful. The rest of the dash is low-reflection material, and the piano black looks even worse contrasted with it. By far the biggest Mk7/7.5 Fiesta interior sin.
The new dash looks better to me. Far more resolved and addresses both points EXCEPT the screen. If you notice in the shots they made a lot of room in the centre of the dials for a screen so why is this separate one needed? Mazda/Merc/other marques seem addicted to these also which would be fine except as far as I'm aware they don't fold away (if they did this would solve all issues). The only saving grace I can think of is that Ford gave dash illumination dimmer controls in the current gen so hopefully you'll be able to turn the thing off.
Exterior
Oh dear. You have to remember that the 7/7.5 are extremely old cars now, and though in my opinion the styling has aged brilliantly clearly Ford were at the point where they could hold back the urge to change it no longer and align it with the rest of the current models.
It's sad that the rear lights got relocated as they are one of the more distinctive features. They tried to turn the rear into the Focus and made it into a B-max/Base model A-Class/Peugeot mish-mash. If you can live with it then fair enough but it's a noticeable regression in my opinion. The alloys in the blue press car are horrible but are more open to personal taste I guess.
The blue in the press car looks rubbish because it is very similar to a colour you see a LOT of Titanium spec current gen Fiestas in. It's sad that they can't just view Nitrous Blue (like on the Focus) as their 'ST' colour like they did with orange in the past. A Fiesta in Nitrous Blue would be awesome. On the exhaust front it's nice to see them being restrained and not like VW. This is not a supercar, 2 is just fine.
Oh and I'm sure the artificial sound enhancement will be able to be turned off. As long as you can do that and leave it off I don't mind although it's annoying that a few quid will have gone into developing and installing it. You have to remember there are a bunch of people out there who love DSG farts and RS fake whooshes so I suppose Ford have to give those dribblers something to bring them over to Fiestas.
I think with this car we are seeing the future of petrol engine technology.
As diseasel is being pushed out, tech will continue to develop with petrol - low capacity, turbocharged, low emissions (with cylinder count and cylinder drop out) and far more fuel efficient.
I like the sound of it to be honest
As diseasel is being pushed out, tech will continue to develop with petrol - low capacity, turbocharged, low emissions (with cylinder count and cylinder drop out) and far more fuel efficient.
I like the sound of it to be honest
I'd like a three cylinder engine. The ESE sounds like a really, really cheesy "feature". Does anyone want this? It'll irritate the hell out of me. I drove a BMW with this recently. It's enough to make me shut the wallet instantly. I simply will not spend money on a car with electronic enhanced sound, unless there's the ability to turn the "feature" off. This goes for BMW as well. They must be totally out of tune with the market.
GroundEffect said:
blade7 said:
From a performance standpoint I can't think of any reason to use 3 pistons and 12 valves over 4 pistons and 16 valves. Cheaper to manufacture so more profit I assume.
Lower friction is the main reason. Better for FE/CO2. Edited by blade7 on Saturday 25th February 12:40
RemyMartin81D said:
What a completely bland stter of a car. Horrendous.
Ford interiors are a complete mess and I suspect an inside joke at Ford on how bad can we make our interior design before people stop buying them.
I must be missing something, whats wrong with ford interiors? tter of a car. Horrendous. Ford interiors are a complete mess and I suspect an inside joke at Ford on how bad can we make our interior design before people stop buying them.
Edited by sheepman on Saturday 25th February 12:55
Is it just me that thinks the dash looks like a cheaper/worse laid out version of a kia rio's?
The interiors on fords have always been the let down, cheap feel and squeaks and rattles plague them. My 30K miles 2010 focus st has rattles iv never been able to find/cure, yet my 03 a3 doesn't have a single rattle.
Was tempted by the fiesta st when it was released as i had an s1600 134 which was the highest spec you could get before the st, but couldn't justify the extra 10k layout to have same cheapo interior minus the full leather mine had as they didn't offer that on release
Have always been a Ford fan, but I'm not keen on their current designs, especially when they all look like shrunk/inflated versions of one design.
The interiors on fords have always been the let down, cheap feel and squeaks and rattles plague them. My 30K miles 2010 focus st has rattles iv never been able to find/cure, yet my 03 a3 doesn't have a single rattle.
Was tempted by the fiesta st when it was released as i had an s1600 134 which was the highest spec you could get before the st, but couldn't justify the extra 10k layout to have same cheapo interior minus the full leather mine had as they didn't offer that on release
Have always been a Ford fan, but I'm not keen on their current designs, especially when they all look like shrunk/inflated versions of one design.
blade7 said:
I don't think lower friction out weighs more valve area in performance terms. The top output 1000cc superbike engines all use 4 cylinders. Ford could have turned cylinders on and off on the old engine to lower emissions.
Isn't it also to do with delivering more torque lower down the rev range, it might make a little less top end power, but to most drivers will feel faster in-gear. This doesn't mean its not going to be fun to rev it out, there's a reason the MT-09 and Street Triple are such popular bikes at the moment.Edited by blade7 on Saturday 25th February 12:40
lee_erm said:
RemyMartin81D said:
What a completely bland stter of a car. Horrendous.
Ford interiors are a complete mess and I suspect an inside joke at Ford on how bad can we make our interior design before people stop buying them.
I'm thankful half-term is nearly over.tter of a car. Horrendous. Ford interiors are a complete mess and I suspect an inside joke at Ford on how bad can we make our interior design before people stop buying them.
I think this one looks quite good inside though.
WCZ said:
mooseracer said:
Manual box - tick
3 door option - tick
Not gone for stupid power - tick
3 driving 'modes' - hmmm
Electronic sound enhancement - boo
That stupid sync3 screen - boo
Silly shaped steering wheel - boo
Keep it basic was my wish and I suppose they've not gone too overboard. If it retains (or even improves on) the driving dynamics of the current version I'll chop mine in for one when the time comes.
Except I'm well over 25 so will look stupid apparently.
ah right, so you just wanted the same car again!?3 door option - tick
Not gone for stupid power - tick
3 driving 'modes' - hmmm
Electronic sound enhancement - boo
That stupid sync3 screen - boo
Silly shaped steering wheel - boo
Keep it basic was my wish and I suppose they've not gone too overboard. If it retains (or even improves on) the driving dynamics of the current version I'll chop mine in for one when the time comes.
Except I'm well over 25 so will look stupid apparently.
Vroom101 said:
TC7 said:
Have always been a Ford fan, but I'm not keen on their current designs, especially when they all look like shrunk/inflated versions of one design.
This from a guy with an Audi?! 
To be fair, many manufacturers do this, but Ford are amateurs compared to Audi in this regard. Would just look cleaner to her.Currently have 3 Fords and have had 4 others over last 8 years, So think i qualify as a Ford driver over an audi driver.
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