Audi branded Mann and a Mann filter from ECP

[vikingaero]

Rick101 said:

I have never waited for parts longer than in a main dealer.
Even for a simple thing like an air filter or a touch up pen you can be stood there 15 or 20 minutes.
I can only imagine they have a secret entrance to the magical world of Narnia when they go to retrieve these items.

What normally happens is that the parts bloke goes out back to get your item. Then a mechanic comes up and asks for a service kit for whatever car he has brought in. So rather than slow the mechanic down he serves him on the computer out back and charges that kit on the computer to the service bill of that vehicle. Then the next mechanic comes along for a widget... so your filter/touch up stick takes 20 minutes.

[Cyder]

wemorgan said:

AFAIK car manufacturers don't make their own filters. Their logo is just printed for branding / marketing purposes. They'll use a range of different suppliers, quite possibly changing over the duration of the vehicle's manufacturer. Just stick to the main brands and you'll be ok.

To the person who thinks buyers are waiting ages in ECP, then Halfords etc, most places offer free delivery or click and collect. It could hardly be quicker.

Absolutely this, The only bits made in house are normally bumpers and body panels, but often even that is sub-contracted out.

[Puddenchucker]

Going off topic a bit...
A few years ago I bought a couple of service items (wipers/filters etc) for my Skoda from a main dealer. A colleague bought the same items for his Audi from a main dealer. The parts were visually identical, came in the same design of box, with same part numbers and VW/Audi/Skoda/Seat logos.

I paid £7.00 (about 30%) less.

Point? Higher price does not necessarily mean higher quality.

[confused_buyer]

pits said:

They're the same company though, except car parts 4 less sell the really st stuff ECP doesn't, if ECP are poundland, cp4l are B&M or Buyology

They sell exactly the same stuff with exactly the same part numbers and backend computer system. Anything you can buy from CP4L you can also get from ECP.

[cvms]

Cyder said:

wemorgan said:

AFAIK car manufacturers don't make their own filters. Their logo is just printed for branding / marketing purposes. They'll use a range of different suppliers, quite possibly changing over the duration of the vehicle's manufacturer. Just stick to the main brands and you'll be ok.

To the person who thinks buyers are waiting ages in ECP, then Halfords etc, most places offer free delivery or click and collect. It could hardly be quicker.

Absolutely this, The only bits made in house are normally bumpers and body panels, but often even that is sub-contracted out.

Suppliers will supply parts to OEMs to go to plant and a small number will also be service parts for dealers.

These same suppliers will also make parts to sell to third parties like ECP, but there will be some agreement with OEM that their name will not be on these parts. That would explain the TRW suspension arm with the BMW wording machined off. These parts will be made on the same line using the same materials as OEM branded parts, certainly for current production vehicles.

Cost differences come from OEM adding their %age then dealer adding their own %age on top of that for parts they sell. ECP would probably deal directly with supplier, hence lower price.

For large OEMs, the only thing they do in-house is stamp the body panels and maybe some machining, especially in engine plants. Rest comes from suppliers.

[tannhauser]

confused_buyer said:

pits said:

They're the same company though, except car parts 4 less sell the really st stuff ECP doesn't, if ECP are poundland, cp4l are B&M or Buyology

They sell exactly the same stuff with exactly the same part numbers and backend computer system. Anything you can buy from CP4L you can also get from ECP.

This 100%. Not sure what he's going on about!

[tannhauser]

cvms said:

Cyder said:

wemorgan said:

AFAIK car manufacturers don't make their own filters. Their logo is just printed for branding / marketing purposes. They'll use a range of different suppliers, quite possibly changing over the duration of the vehicle's manufacturer. Just stick to the main brands and you'll be ok.

To the person who thinks buyers are waiting ages in ECP, then Halfords etc, most places offer free delivery or click and collect. It could hardly be quicker.

Absolutely this, The only bits made in house are normally bumpers and body panels, but often even that is sub-contracted out.

Suppliers will supply parts to OEMs to go to plant and a small number will also be service parts for dealers.

These same suppliers will also make parts to sell to third parties like ECP, but there will be some agreement with OEM that their name will not be on these parts. That would explain the TRW suspension arm with the BMW wording machined off. These parts will be made on the same line using the same materials as OEM branded parts, certainly for current production vehicles.

Cost differences come from OEM adding their %age then dealer adding their own %age on top of that for parts they sell. ECP would probably deal directly with supplier, hence lower price.

For large OEMs, the only thing they do in-house is stamp the body panels and maybe some machining, especially in engine plants. Rest comes from suppliers.

Not all "identical" parts or components are 100% equal 100% of the time. During manufacture of any component, you will end up with some items that are within fine tolerances, some that are out slightly, and others more so.

Usually, for a particular "identical" part; the order in which the best examples are farmed out is as follows:

1) For OE supply
2) For supply via franchised dealers as "genuine parts"
3) For replacement market

The Mann filters supplied by ECP may be a slightly different spec to OE supply or "genuine" part. The volumes supplied to ECP and the like may justify huge numbers being built to lower tolerances, or even with a slightly different spec. Equally the TRW suspension with BMW ground off, may have been intended for OE supply, but didn't meet the strict tolerances demanded by BMW.

I've had Jurid and Textar (OE to BMW) brake components from ECP, and the only difference I can see is the "hub" section is not painted grey like OE BMW. I tend to give these a quick paint in zinc etch and matt black to prevent rusting... I also suspect they aren't quite as "true" as genuine BMW.

That said, I would happily use Mann/Hengst filters from ECP, and TRW arms with BMW ground off!

[codenamecueball]

jamoor said:

I replaced a TRW boxed suspension arm on my BMW the other day.

I wonder the costs of paying a chap to grind off every BMW logo before shifting them to ECP?

[tannhauser]

codenamecueball said:

jamoor said:

I replaced a TRW boxed suspension arm on my BMW the other day.

I wonder the costs of paying a chap to grind off every BMW logo before shifting them to ECP?

As mentioned above, it could be that these TRW arms weren't quite good enough for sale as genuine BMW (i.e. within fine tolerances). That said, they'd be perfectly fine and I'd have no problem using them!

[jamoor]

codenamecueball said:

I wonder the costs of paying a chap to grind off every BMW logo before shifting them to ECP?

I'd say it take around 15 seconds to grind off the logo

@ say 15 euros an hour

approx 10 cents by my calculation...

I bought them from Amazon anyway.

Edited by jamoor on Sunday 26th February 14:58

[jamoor]

tannhauser said:

As mentioned above, it could be that these TRW arms weren't quite good enough for sale as genuine BMW (i.e. within fine tolerances). That said, they'd be perfectly fine and I'd have no problem using them!

Maybe, but I doubt it.

[WestyCarl]

tannhauser said:

codenamecueball said:

jamoor said:

I replaced a TRW boxed suspension arm on my BMW the other day.

I wonder the costs of paying a chap to grind off every BMW logo before shifting them to ECP?

As mentioned above, it could be that these TRW arms weren't quite good enough for sale as genuine BMW (i.e. within fine tolerances). That said, they'd be perfectly fine and I'd have no problem using them!

No, this will be due to BMW lawyers. Nobody but BMW can sell BMW parts. It'll be cheaper for the part manufacturer to remove the logo than tool up for an identical part with no logo.

The tolerance argument doesn't apply either. Before you can supply a part to any car manufacturer you have to prove consistent production capability (Cp and Cpk) otherwise you wont get the contract, therefore there will be very few if any out of tolerance parts made.

Usually the parts will be identical, the only difference will be where the supplier can easily delete a process (painting, coating) that won't affect performance but save money.

[JM]

pits said:

JM said:

KungFuPanda said:

So, this will probably be an argument which rages until the end of time. Will the two filters (oil) be the same or will the one from ECP be manufactured to a lower quality control level hence the lower cost?

Get the exact same part (and part number) as the ECP one for less from carparts4less.

They're the same company though, except car parts 4 less sell the really st stuff ECP doesn't, if ECP are poundland, cp4l are B&M or Buyology

In my experience they sell exactly the same stuff, for less.
Even the part numbers are the same, since as you say (and I know) they are the 'same' company.

[untakenname]

I don't understand how ECP can make a profit when posting items, you can order 5 litres of screenwash and have it delivered by a proper logistics company yet the postage will be more than the part.
On the subject of ECP/CPFL is there anyway to browse all items on the website? I'm looking for an inline fuel filter of a certain dimension and would like to just be able to browse all but it just asks for your registration then shows limited results.

[jamoor]

WestyCarl said:

No, this will be due to BMW lawyers. Nobody but BMW can sell BMW parts. It'll be cheaper for the part manufacturer to remove the logo than tool up for an identical part with no logo.

.

It's as simple as a trademark violation.
Just remove the trademark and you're good.

I think it's called block exepmtion in the EU where a vehicle maker can't stop an aftermarket supplier selling to the aftermarket.

[PositronicRay]

untakenname said:

I don't understand how ECP can make a profit when posting items, you can order 5 litres of screenwash and have it delivered by a proper logistics company yet the postage will be more than the part.
On the subject of ECP/CPFL is there anyway to browse all items on the website? I'm looking for an inline fuel filter of a certain dimension and would like to just be able to browse all but it just asks for your registration then shows limited results.

Even if you specify free delivery some stuff seems to come tracked and sign for (bit of a pain as I have to be in) Including a 14p sump plug washer!

[codenamecueball]

I got 5l of screenwash for £2.50 delivered to my door. Unbelievable. My guess is it's a loss leader to get us in when we buy timing belt kits, wishbones, panels, lights etc

[Jakg]

untakenname said:

I don't understand how ECP can make a profit when posting items, you can order 5 litres of screenwash and have it delivered by a proper logistics company yet the postage will be more than the part.
On the subject of ECP/CPFL is there anyway to browse all items on the website? I'm looking for an inline fuel filter of a certain dimension and would like to just be able to browse all but it just asks for your registration then shows limited results.

Their eBay store is usually the best way of finding parts like this. The description has the product code you can use to find it on their websites. Weirdly they eBay listing often has manufacturer part numbers too - i.e. all of the Powerflex stuff they sell only has the Powerflex reference on their eBay store, not the main website.

[WestyCarl]

untakenname said:

I don't understand how ECP can make a profit when posting items, you can order 5 litres of screenwash and have it delivered by a proper logistics company yet the postage will be more than the part.
On the subject of ECP/CPFL is there anyway to browse all items on the website? I'm looking for an inline fuel filter of a certain dimension and would like to just be able to browse all but it just asks for your registration then shows limited results.

Volume, a bit like Amazon. For every 5l of screen wash they will probably sell 10 items over £100.

[Gareth79]

untakenname said:

I don't understand how ECP can make a profit when posting items, you can order 5 litres of screenwash and have it delivered by a proper logistics company yet the postage will be more than the part.
On the subject of ECP/CPFL is there anyway to browse all items on the website? I'm looking for an inline fuel filter of a certain dimension and would like to just be able to browse all but it just asks for your registration then shows limited results.

I think they are just wanting to grow the customer base (and orders/turnover) at the moment, and likely monitor the number of orders that make a loss and work out that it's justified overall.

CPC did a similar thing for a couple of years and now have a minimum order value of £5+VAT, which I'm sure must still result on a loss for some orders where the item isn't marked up much.