Another "WTF?" - electronic dipstick

Another "WTF?" - electronic dipstick

Author
Discussion

Jonno02

2,246 posts

108 months

Monday 27th February 2017
quotequote all
Friend had an audi S5 with one of these. Constantly showed a full level. After quite a few months he decided it should have dropped slightly so manually checked it. The thing was dangerously low on oil. This is one case where over-engineering is just stupid.

anonymous-user

53 months

Monday 27th February 2017
quotequote all
My CLK 55 has a dipstick in the engine bay and a dashboard reading of the oil level. Best of both worlds I guess!

liner33

10,642 posts

201 months

Monday 27th February 2017
quotequote all
havoc said:
I think your logic is flawed JD. Manufacturers choose to make a part that SHOULD be metal out of plastic, then it fails, then you use that as an argument for going to a more expensive, more complicated solution that's JUST as likely to fail, rather than going back to the old metal part?!?

Seriously chap, do yourself a favour and think before typing...

(As regards "having a sender anyway" - the old-style "warning light" sender was a very simple affair vs the current 'take the oil level' sensors/senders. Simpler, cheaper, less likely to fail...and even if it did the owner had a manual backup solution...)



Oh, and I've not HEARD of a dipstick breaking amongst any of my family and friends.
Not all metal ones are easy to use either the one on the 350z is ridiculous, its in an awful place , in fact a sensor would have stopped numerous engines failures on an engine known to use a bit of oil . An oil pressure sensor ie the "old-style" is pretty much useless often by the time the light has come on its too late the damage is done.


66mpg

648 posts

106 months

Monday 27th February 2017
quotequote all
I once bought a Transit for £10. I had noticed the dipstick was missing. I bought a replacement then found the original wasn't completely missing: only the top half was! I had to drop the sump to get the broken bit out. That was a metal part. Manufacturers didn't need to switch to plastic to have breakages.

I personally could see the point of a sensor to read the oil level. Some Renaults used to read oil level on the oil pressure gauge before the engine started. You got a reading every time you started the engine, not just when you remembered to lift the bonnet and pull the dipstick. I would build the sensor into the dipstick so you have the option of a manual check, the sensor would be easy to access for replacement and you have somewhere to suck the oil from with a vacuum pump if desired.

My guess is the Range Rover's sensor has been built in to the block early in the engine assembly and other stuff added which needs to be removed for access. Somebody decided the sensor would last the life of the engine and never need to be changed.

xjay1337

15,966 posts

117 months

Monday 27th February 2017
quotequote all
ruprechtmonkeyboy said:
My CLK 55 has a dipstick in the engine bay and a dashboard reading of the oil level. Best of both worlds I guess!
Maybe it was an option. I know on some Audi's etc, that a dipstick is an option you can order...
It's annoying when doing self-servicing that's for sure.
But I guess the market dictates now that most people don't like getting their fingers "dirty".

havoc

Original Poster:

29,928 posts

234 months

Monday 27th February 2017
quotequote all
xjay1337 said:
But I guess the market dictates now that most people don't like getting their fingers "dirty".
Probably very true, and i suspect most new buyers won't be worried about part-failure as it'll be warrantied, whilst the manufacturers don't really* care about 2nd-hand buyers as any failures mean more money for their parts departments.

66mpg said:
Somebody decided the sensor would last the life of the engine and never need to be changed.
True, but rofl (having worked in automotive and seen the competence/otherwise of some of the electronics teams, and the short-cuts they end up taking not to delay a project because they've been asked to squeeze a quart into a pint-pot...)



* Only insofar as a major repeat problem can affect residuals (996/IMF) ...but minor/occasional problems don't seem to register in the 2nd hand market, nor do some more widespread ones (plastic turbo impellers in 2.0d engines, for example...)

Krikkit

26,500 posts

180 months

Monday 27th February 2017
quotequote all
Electronic-only is a pain, but both is the best thing imo - have it flash up on the dash when you turn on, makes it nice and easy to keep an eye on oil consumption.

loose cannon

6,029 posts

240 months

Monday 27th February 2017
quotequote all
I have had the pleasure of removing plastic dipsticks that have broken off, most of um had stuck so bad probably because they never got pulled out regularly enough, I just think the lack of a dipstick on an engine is just ridiculous,
There really is no reason that Makes any practical sense to do away with it I don't believe for one minute it has to do with lack of room it's just cost cutting

MuscleSaloon

1,541 posts

174 months

Monday 27th February 2017
quotequote all
The Crack Fox said:
How amusing.

"It's a Range Rover, sir, it won't break down".
LOL .... was he wearing the clown suit to go with that statement?!

When they are working they are superb. When they're not they are a nightmare. Lots of people now just won't own them out of warranty.

havoc

Original Poster:

29,928 posts

234 months

Monday 27th February 2017
quotequote all
Nanook said:
ABS can work better than braking systems without ABS.

But sometimes it breaks.

Synchromesh gearboxes are nicer to use than old crash boxes, but they cost more to make.

Side airbags can help save more lives than just a single one on the steering wheel, but at greater cost, weight, complexity.

Windy windows worked just fine until electric ones were created.

So where do we draw the line on 'technology for technologies sake'?

I know people that have no idea what a dipstick is, never mind knowing they should check it weekly. If this system stops someone borking an engine by telling them to get it checked out, that's a good thing.

In this case, it's broken. It happens. To everything, at some point or another.
All of those examples have a clear benefit to the driver*. An electronic dipstick doesn't, really, except as a cure for laziness. Doubling-up is, I agree, the best solution...but if you ask me to choose between the two, choose the simple solution not the expensive one.

(shouldn't that be THE engineering mantra? KISS)



* 'leccy windows being the closest to the "cure for laziness" answer, to be fair, but even there you have a switch to prevent your offspring from winding their own windows down and throwing their shoes out of the window on a M'way, as happened to a good friend's sister a few years ago...

Klippie

3,096 posts

144 months

Monday 27th February 2017
quotequote all
My Cayman has a leccy dipstick, I can only assume Porsche has spent millions developing this item to make it as super reliable as the rest of the german made cars these days...oh wait...!!!

MuscleSaloon

1,541 posts

174 months

Monday 27th February 2017
quotequote all
You wouldn't design an engine for a lawnmower without a simple failsafe method of checking the oil level.

Who in their right mind would delete such a simple inexpensive device like an oil level dipstick from a modern car engine costing many thousands of pounds?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mGE6roEThiglaugh


Edited by MuscleSaloon on Monday 27th February 17:51

mybrainhurts

90,809 posts

254 months

Monday 27th February 2017
quotequote all
We change the oil in two cars every two months, sucking the old oil out through the dipstick tube. Couldn't do that with an electronic one.

bitchstewie

50,781 posts

209 months

Monday 27th February 2017
quotequote all
The Crack Fox said:
"It's a Range Rover, sir, it won't break down"
I was chatting with a salesman at a different dealership for another marque who used to work for a Land Rover dealership.

He was telling me that whilst the engines were fundamentally reliable, on a large site they would find that almost every day they would arrive to find at least one vehicle that had randomly dropped the air suspension on a corner or a window(s) would have mysteriously lowered.

TooMany2cvs

29,008 posts

125 months

Monday 27th February 2017
quotequote all
mybrainhurts said:
We change the oil in two cars every two months, sucking the old oil out through the dipstick tube. Couldn't do that with an electronic one.
So that's one advantage to removal of the dipstick...

mybrainhurts

90,809 posts

254 months

Monday 27th February 2017
quotequote all
TooMany2cvs said:
mybrainhurts said:
We change the oil in two cars every two months, sucking the old oil out through the dipstick tube. Couldn't do that with an electronic one.
So that's one advantage to removal of the dipstick...
You've lost me there, old boy. Are you suggesting this is not a valid method?

MitchT

15,788 posts

208 months

Monday 27th February 2017
quotequote all
I fancy a BMW Z4 coupé but I'm put off by the absence of a proper dipstick. According to others on here I'm over-worrying, but who's pocket will be hit if the oil runs low because the sensor fails? I doubt BMW are going to hold their hands up and say "yeah, we stuffed up removing the dipstick, have a new engine on us".

TooMany2cvs

29,008 posts

125 months

Monday 27th February 2017
quotequote all
mybrainhurts said:
TooMany2cvs said:
mybrainhurts said:
We change the oil in two cars every two months, sucking the old oil out through the dipstick tube. Couldn't do that with an electronic one.
So that's one advantage to removal of the dipstick...
You've lost me there, old boy. Are you suggesting this is not a valid method?
It's always struck me as the only advantage being that it's quicker ( = cheaper) to change the oil, with no other real benefit.

Butter Face

30,192 posts

159 months

Monday 27th February 2017
quotequote all
I broke my dipstick recently, true story.

imagineifyeswill

1,224 posts

165 months

Monday 27th February 2017
quotequote all
The oil level sensor is in the sump and Im pretty sure you cant take the sump of in position as the front diff and probably lots more parts are below it, and if Im correct to take the engine out you have to lift the body off the subframe. It really is totally ridiculous the way some modern cars are built.