RE: Alfa Romeo Giulia: UK Review
Discussion
I think this will go the same way as the 159. That was a pretty car (and still is) and yet a sales disappointment.
The review's will all the same "this is the car that takes the fight to the Germans" "this is Alfa's make or break model in the mid size premium sector" etc etc..
The only difference is they now have a halo model in the Quadrafroggy... which will temp a few of us car nerds because of it's capabilities, looks and the fact we can say it was developed by a legendary Ferrari Engineer (who's name we'll forget).
The review's will all the same "this is the car that takes the fight to the Germans" "this is Alfa's make or break model in the mid size premium sector" etc etc..
The only difference is they now have a halo model in the Quadrafroggy... which will temp a few of us car nerds because of it's capabilities, looks and the fact we can say it was developed by a legendary Ferrari Engineer (who's name we'll forget).
Well I like the look of it 
went and had a play with the configurator, this would be me, £43k http://carconfigurator.alfaromeo.com/renderer/soci...
went and had a play with the configurator, this would be me, £43k http://carconfigurator.alfaromeo.com/renderer/soci...adamcot said:
I drive a diesel XE for my daily. The last thing I could possibly think of doing whilst driving to work is getting the tail out coming off a roundabout... I have absolutely no idea why you'd want to do that in a normal 4 door saloon. Journos can be disconnected from the real world sometimes.
I used to love turning the TC off in my old F10 M5 and lighting the rears up in 2nd gear when it was wet/damp, it was fun, 35mph, foot down and you'd just continue at 35mph with the rears spinning away. Edited by adamcot on Wednesday 15th March 20:38
I used to enjoy doing the same in an old e92 M3, TC off in 1st and 2nd car boot it rear sits at a slight angle with a generous amount of slip as you went up the gears.
Mind you that was in a straight line, wouldn't dare do it with any lock on the steering wheel....
As for the Alfa, not very impressive, looks like they have gone for a big shout on the QF but forgotten the rest of the range the 330i/340i/330d/33d etc...seem to have the cooking models covered.
grahamr88 said:
Looking forward to the estate version. I bought a 159 Ti Sportwagon the other day; I think it's one of the few cases where the estate looks better than the saloon, and despite being a 10 year old design, I can't think of any estates produced since then which look as good.
The 159 Ti is a cracking looking car in both saloon and estateTwoshoe said:
Saw my first Giulia the other day and thought it looked pretty good, probably better than most of its rivals. I was just disappointed it lacked the 'wow' factor that the 156 (and to a lesser extent the 159) had when they came out.
The 156 was very special indeed. I have only seen one Giulia in person (from a distance) and I do think they stand out (which an Alfa should!)I think it was a mistake letting the cat out of the bag so early. It's a good-looking car, but releasing photos and talking up the QV so far before the launch really raised expectations to a level where it was inevitable they couldn't be met.
I have to say the more I learn about new cars the more trenchant I become in sticking to classics. If all there is to differentiate between brands is the corporate look, the noise and the feel of the plastics it doesn't leave much to get excited about. In fact the next Alfa I'm planning on buying dates from 1975, back when Benzes were chalk in comparison/-;
I have to say the more I learn about new cars the more trenchant I become in sticking to classics. If all there is to differentiate between brands is the corporate look, the noise and the feel of the plastics it doesn't leave much to get excited about. In fact the next Alfa I'm planning on buying dates from 1975, back when Benzes were chalk in comparison/-;
Q: Who is going to buy these new?
A: Company car drivers.
Q: What factors are involved in the amount of tax the company car driver will pay?
A: Manufacturer's list price and CO2 output.
Alfa missed several tricks, didn't they?
Why set the list price in excess of £30,000 and then heavily discount the cars in the showroom?
Bonkers. The guy/gal making the buying decision doesn't benefit, only the company financing the car benefits.
In my opinion they should have set the list price about £5,000 lower and made a virtue of it.
Why equip the petrol version with an engine that emits 138g CO2?
That is very inefficient by today's standards and will put off any eco-friendly company car buyer.
It will also hit him in his Benefit tax.
It will also hit the company he works for if they are buying it outright - tax allowances are much lower for cars emitting under 130g CO2.
So, the reality is that most company drivers will buy the diesel.
Same comment about list prices - it would have made far more sense to keep the price under £30,000.
£30,000 has to be a price band limit in so many car schemes.
At least 109g CO2 gives a reasonably low benefit tax, but 99g would have been so much better.
Never mind - if you want one, just wait until early 2020, and you will be able to have a nicely equipped, reasonable mileage one for well under £10,000.....
Yes, they will depreciate that much.
A: Company car drivers.
Q: What factors are involved in the amount of tax the company car driver will pay?
A: Manufacturer's list price and CO2 output.
Alfa missed several tricks, didn't they?
Why set the list price in excess of £30,000 and then heavily discount the cars in the showroom?
Bonkers. The guy/gal making the buying decision doesn't benefit, only the company financing the car benefits.
In my opinion they should have set the list price about £5,000 lower and made a virtue of it.
Why equip the petrol version with an engine that emits 138g CO2?
That is very inefficient by today's standards and will put off any eco-friendly company car buyer.
It will also hit him in his Benefit tax.
It will also hit the company he works for if they are buying it outright - tax allowances are much lower for cars emitting under 130g CO2.
So, the reality is that most company drivers will buy the diesel.
Same comment about list prices - it would have made far more sense to keep the price under £30,000.
£30,000 has to be a price band limit in so many car schemes.
At least 109g CO2 gives a reasonably low benefit tax, but 99g would have been so much better.
Never mind - if you want one, just wait until early 2020, and you will be able to have a nicely equipped, reasonable mileage one for well under £10,000.....
Yes, they will depreciate that much.
The weakest part of the Giulia is actually the engine/drivetrain portfolio, which is strange for an Alfa. Those diesels are nothing to shout about, the weaker ones are noise boxes with a rather narrow useful power band, above 3k just more noise but no punch. Quite pronounced on German autobahns when pushing the pedal from 160 upwards. These Diesels are just not competitive. And on the patrol side of things the 280hp inline 4 is only available for all wheel drive which is heavy and takes away a lot of liteness. I don't get it why there is no 380/400hp version on the V6 (also why are there two V6 turbo engines in the company? but that's another question). And why there is no high power version rear wheel drive inline 4 turbo, preferably with manual gearbox option. In any case, the Giulia is a nice car - though slightly too expensive compared with the Germans - but it cannot compete with them on the powertrain side because of strange management decisions.
I think it's a nice car and it's good to see fresh designs. I think what's stopping it from success will be the lease deals and the PCPs... they won't be competitive with the German brands and these days that's how most buy the new cars on some sort of finance deal.
It's all very well saying I will wait for a used one in 2 years but if no one buys the new ones the used ones will be rare.
I would consider one if it was a bit cheaper to buy than a similar sorted and proved BMW for example. Truth is you will have to pay more for an inferior car to have the Alfa but I guess it's not all about the bottom line for some.
Let's see, I wish Alfa success, had a 156 and was a great car, reliable, comfortable and good drive for a FWD.
It's all very well saying I will wait for a used one in 2 years but if no one buys the new ones the used ones will be rare.
I would consider one if it was a bit cheaper to buy than a similar sorted and proved BMW for example. Truth is you will have to pay more for an inferior car to have the Alfa but I guess it's not all about the bottom line for some.
Let's see, I wish Alfa success, had a 156 and was a great car, reliable, comfortable and good drive for a FWD.
I do really like these. Alfa have made such a good-looking saloon which is also, apparently, pretty good to drive.
That 200bhp petrol model appears to be really impressive. 6.6 seconds to 60 in quite a big saloon car with only 200bhp is pretty staggering! I can only assume that the transmission plays a big part in that, as well as the torque figure.
I'm looking forward to seeing these on the roads. I wonder if many will be tempted away from the usual German offerings?
That 200bhp petrol model appears to be really impressive. 6.6 seconds to 60 in quite a big saloon car with only 200bhp is pretty staggering! I can only assume that the transmission plays a big part in that, as well as the torque figure.
I'm looking forward to seeing these on the roads. I wonder if many will be tempted away from the usual German offerings?
RSchneider said:
The weakest part of the Giulia is actually the engine/drivetrain portfolio, which is strange for an Alfa. Those diesels are nothing to shout about, the weaker ones are noise boxes with a rather narrow useful power band, above 3k just more noise but no punch. Quite pronounced on German autobahns when pushing the pedal from 160 upwards. These Diesels are just not competitive. And on the patrol side of things the 280hp inline 4 is only available for all wheel drive which is heavy and takes away a lot of liteness. I don't get it why there is no 380/400hp version on the V6 (also why are there two V6 turbo engines in the company? but that's another question). And why there is no high power version rear wheel drive inline 4 turbo, preferably with manual gearbox option. In any case, the Giulia is a nice car - though slightly too expensive compared with the Germans - but it cannot compete with them on the powertrain side because of strange management decisions.
I hired a diesel for a week in Spain, it was fine. Didn't set the world on fire, and I preferred my massively remapped and modified 2.4 5 pot, but for an engine that appeared to use hardly any fuel at all, it was good. Mine was an auto - I noticed no issues with power band at all. On the motorway, I couldn't fault the car. Indeed, I gave it some pedal leaving Malaga airport and was north of 180k before realising it. The car was very quiet at speed and the engine pulled well.It was less satisfying on the twisty stuff, belting it in 2nd and 3rd resulted in a lot of tractor noises, but the car made progress. Certainly with the diesel, I would think the manual box would be a PITA - everytime I shifted using the paddles, I gave up after about 30 seconds because the workload was too high.
culpz said:
That 200bhp petrol model appears to be really impressive. 6.6 seconds to 60 in quite a big saloon car with only 200bhp is pretty staggering! I can only assume that the transmission plays a big part in that, as well as the torque figure.
Performance is not really anything new - it no doubt offers more interior space but ( if you believe the published Alfa weight figure ) BMW offered that sort of performance in an E36 ( saloon, touring or cabrio model ) 20 years agoIt seems like a great first attempt for Alfa at becoming a serious car company again.
The fact it is rear wheel drive, looks so good and they have reengaged the passion typer drive with that new engine are all good signs.
OCD winners will still opt for zee Germans and always will most likely. But they are not 100% of drivers.
The fact it is rear wheel drive, looks so good and they have reengaged the passion typer drive with that new engine are all good signs.
OCD winners will still opt for zee Germans and always will most likely. But they are not 100% of drivers.
ruprechtmonkeyboy said:
s m said:
culpz said:
That 200bhp petrol model appears to be really impressive. 6.6 seconds to 60 in quite a big saloon car with only 200bhp is pretty staggering! I can only assume that the transmission plays a big part in that, as well as the torque figure.
Performance is not really anything new - it no doubt offers more interior space but ( if you believe the published Alfa weight figure ) BMW offered that sort of performance in an E36 ( saloon, touring or cabrio model ) 20 years agoMy 328i weighed 1420kg without me in and half a tank
ALFA ROMEO GIULIA
Engine: 1,995cc 4-cyl petrol
Transmission: 8-speed auto, rear-wheel drive
Power (hp): 200@5,000rpm
Torque (lb ft): 243@1,750rpm
0-62mph: 6.6sec
Top speed: 146mph
Weight: 1,429kg (DIN + driver)
MPG: 47.9 (NEDC combined)
CO2: 138g/km
Price: £29,180, £30,880 (Super)
However, I suspect the weight figure is unrealistic. If it is real I don't find the performance staggering at all if it is linked to a supposedly fast shifting autobox.
sunsurfer said:
Agreed. Difficult for car designers but the Diesel bubble may have popped with VW's issues and cities around the world concerned about their air pollution. From the sound of it a better petrol engine is needed and yes automatics are probably better at changing gears than most drivers but for the enthusiast driver manual feels nicer.
The diesel bubble may have burst but I find it disappointing that a lot of modern petrol engines seem to have no fizz, especially the 4 pots as they are tuned for maximum efficiency rather than excitement. If it drives like a diesel but just uses more fuel, what's the point? Surely with all the techno wizardry available like multiple maps it's possible to have a proper economy mode and then a map which adds more fizz. I know cars allege to have this already but the current modes really do nothing more than sharpen up the throttle response a bit when I'd like to see them take it a lot further and give them different power maps like you can get with aftermarket tuning boxes.
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