Lpg the new diesel?

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Discussion

Burnzyb

Original Poster:

300 posts

176 months

Thursday 16th March 2017
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As the title, due to the expensive running costs of Diesel engines over a long period, the extra cost to purchase, and the price of diesel getting more expensive, is LPG becoming a more inviting alternative to cheaper motoring for people that covered larger annual mileage?

I know converting a car is expensive, but I'm more leaning to buying a car with the system already installed, what's your opinions?

Loyly

17,990 posts

158 months

Friday 17th March 2017
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It's a great thing, I think. I doubt it'll gain much more traction than it has now though. It's still very much got a 'garden shed' type image about it, even when some of the installations are very well done. It'll probably never get mainstream traction so long as it remains an aftermarket upgrade.

Burnzyb

Original Poster:

300 posts

176 months

Friday 17th March 2017
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Didn't Vauxhall produce some duel fuel cars built with LPG? not sure if they left factory with it installed though or it was a dealer option.

Either way I agree that it's a garden shed type thing, but apart from it being very dry and can upset valve trains on some cars without flash lube, the lack of emmisions could only be a good thing, along with fuel prices, I'm still on the fence, I like the simplicity of upkeep on a petrol engine, my current s211 e320cdi daily is good but I'm always wondering when the next bill may crop up, plus I could run a v8 on probably the same budget and I know what I'd rather be listening too whilst driving :lol:

Nickbrapp

5,277 posts

129 months

Friday 17th March 2017
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Isn't it half as economical, but half as cheap? No doubt if it got popular it would be taxed higher by the government, and then be pointless. Like it or not the flaued electric motor is the future

Trabi601

4,865 posts

94 months

Friday 17th March 2017
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Nickbrapp said:
Isn't it half as economical, but half as cheap? No doubt if it got popular it would be taxed higher by the government, and then be pointless. Like it or not the flaued electric motor is the future
No, it's around 90% as economical but 45% of the price. Essentially, it means running a 3.0 6 pot petrol costs me the same as running a 2.0 4 pot diesel. But if its popularity took off, I reckon we'd soon see a readjustment of the duty rates. However, it's a much cleaner fuel than diesel and petrol.

Shell and Calor are still opening new sites, where regulations allow. The biggest challenge was a change in clearance radius from the tank to other properties - which I believe can be got around by installing underground tanks. But I don't really like those, as a leak of LPG can 'pool' at the bottom of the tank chamber, as it's heavier than air.

Burnzyb

Original Poster:

300 posts

176 months

Saturday 18th March 2017
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My mate had a mg v6 estate and passed mot emmisions with flying colours without a cat using LPG.

Mr2Mike

20,143 posts

254 months

Saturday 18th March 2017
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Trabi601 said:
No, it's around 90% as economical but 45% of the price.
LPG has only 75% of the energy density of petrol and only 65% the energy density of diesel, so 90% of the economy seems very optimistic.

GSalt

298 posts

88 months

Saturday 18th March 2017
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Burnzyb said:
Didn't Vauxhall produce some duel fuel cars built with LPG? not sure if they left factory with it installed though or it was a dealer option
I think they produced some dual fuel Corsas direct from the factory, a client ran a couple of them about eight years ago. Turned out to be not very practical, but the problem was a lack of LPG filling stations inside the North Circular rather than the car itself.

twister

1,450 posts

235 months

Saturday 18th March 2017
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GSalt said:
I think they produced some dual fuel Corsas direct from the factory
Astras were definitely available as dual fuel, and I think Zafiras were too.

S0 What

3,358 posts

171 months

Saturday 18th March 2017
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And astras ect ect, i service a fsctory Dual fuel astra van, the LPG hasn't worked for years though.

Trabi601

4,865 posts

94 months

Saturday 18th March 2017
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Mr2Mike said:
Trabi601 said:
No, it's around 90% as economical but 45% of the price.
LPG has only 75% of the energy density of petrol and only 65% the energy density of diesel, so 90% of the economy seems very optimistic.
I must have been completely mistaken in my calculations - I've only been running LPG for about 5k miles...

Quick calculation says I've just done 20mpg on the last tank of LPG I put through the Alphard. It was doing almost exactly the same on petrol before we had it converted.

That's a cash equivalent of 46mpg. From a 2 tonne campervan with 220bhp 3.0 V6 petrol lump. smile

eldar

21,614 posts

195 months

Saturday 18th March 2017
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Mr2Mike said:
LPG has only 75% of the energy density of petrol and only 65% the energy density of diesel, so 90% of the economy seems very optimistic.
Depends on how good the system is, 60% to 80% of petrol economy is usual.

Jimmy Recard

17,540 posts

178 months

Saturday 18th March 2017
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twister said:
Astras were definitely available as dual fuel, and I think Zafiras were too.
I know someone who has a Vectra Dualfuel that he's had from new with massive miles on it (circa 500k I would think), so definitely Vectras too

Trabi601

4,865 posts

94 months

Saturday 18th March 2017
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eldar said:
Mr2Mike said:
LPG has only 75% of the energy density of petrol and only 65% the energy density of diesel, so 90% of the economy seems very optimistic.
Depends on how good the system is, 60% to 80% of petrol economy is usual.
Also depends on the engine, as you can run more advance due to the increased octane rating.

The new Romano systems have an ECU that's at least as advanced as what many cars have, so it can do some pretty clever stuff.

alpha channel

1,386 posts

161 months

Saturday 18th March 2017
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It's something that I've considered, I pass a Morrisons station that sells it. Seeing as my new car has a V8 under the bonnet and no space saver (but a nice big hole where one would go) in addition my daily commute is just short of sixty miles a day. I can see a cost benefit (vague calculations set it around £800 a year savings) but it would, in theory, give me a greater range as well (it seems to share the fuel tank size, relative to size of car/engine, as my Rover, the XK brims, from a quarter of a tank, at £55, Momentum 99, the Rover, virtually bone dry will only take £40).

One of our mature students drives an Elgrand which he's LPG'd and he's very... enthusiastic... about it.

bagusbagus

451 posts

87 months

Monday 20th March 2017
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it's not expensive to convert! about 300-400 for a very good system depending on your car if you do it yourself,not that hard to do as well if you got basic knowledge.
Or take a trip to Poland and they will do it for less than that with all fitting...

It's just RIP OFF UK!

AJB88

12,263 posts

170 months

Monday 20th March 2017
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Was visiting the in laws in Romania the other week, noticed a lot of the taxi's and pizza delivery cars are LPG. Also noticed most fuel stations had LPG pumps.


njw1

2,053 posts

110 months

Monday 20th March 2017
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I ran an lpg converted 540i for a while but just couldn't get on with it, the biggest problem was that as I do a lot of short journeys the engine rarely got warm enough to switch over to lpg so I only used the lpg on longer runs. I probably saved very little in fuel costs in the time I had it. The tank that was fitted was also not the biggest so the range wasn't great, it was also in the spare wheel well so the spare was in the boot but my biggest complaint was that the car just didn't seem to have the same throttle response or as much low down torque as it had on petrol. To be fair it was quite an old system so I would imagine modern systems are better in that respect. I found it about 75% as efficient as petrol in my case and the car also had no cats and had no problem passing emissions tests.

Fastpedeller

3,848 posts

145 months

Monday 20th March 2017
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Burnzyb said:
My mate had a mg v6 estate and passed mot emmisions with flying colours without a cat using LPG.
Unfortunately that doesn't demonstrate anything, as their equipment only has to be calibrated every 6 months.

SteveSteveson

3,209 posts

162 months

Monday 20th March 2017
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bagusbagus said:
it's not expensive to convert! about 300-400 for a very good system depending on your car if you do it yourself,not that hard to do as well if you got basic knowledge.
Or take a trip to Poland and they will do it for less than that with all fitting...

It's just RIP OFF UK!
Not sure where the rip off is comparing us to somewhere with much lower cost of living. Really not sure I'd want to be near a DIY fuel system, especially gas. There's a good reason you need qualifications and training to mess about with it in a house.