RE: Hybrids are the 'next diesel': Tell Me I'm Wrong
Discussion
steve1386 said:
I'm sorry, but a Prius will never achieve the same real word economy as a diesel, nor will any hybrid. If the battery is fully charged, then they are only useful in short, stop-start city traffic.
Take one on a motorway for a long journey and you'll be lucky to see 40mpg.
On top of that you have to tell someone you drive a Prius!
http://www.fuelly.com/car/toyota/priusTake one on a motorway for a long journey and you'll be lucky to see 40mpg.
On top of that you have to tell someone you drive a Prius!
Rubbish , look at real world figures for what Prius owners are actually getting , we ran a 2.0 CR VAG diesel for 6 years it averaged 42-44mpg, on a long motorway trip we could hit 49mpg , we have run a Gen 3 Prius for 2 years on the same commute and its averaged 52-55mpg of the cheaper 95 unleaded, its massively cheaper to run.
On top of that you dont have to kill people with your diesel smoke
t. I just want a 680hp Panamera. Steam will do.Every Uber-ist in London drives a Prius for one reason - they aren't expensive, they are reliable, economical, and they also hit the emissions targets.
The stupid official tests are driving manufacturers to put too much range in these - you only need 5 miles or so to have "electric boost" and also be all electric in slow moving traffic. If all the cars crawling around major cities were hybrid, a lot less fuel would be burned and the air would be cleaner. When the road opens out, you have a nice petrol or diesel to do the long haul bit. Best of both worlds.
The stupid official tests are driving manufacturers to put too much range in these - you only need 5 miles or so to have "electric boost" and also be all electric in slow moving traffic. If all the cars crawling around major cities were hybrid, a lot less fuel would be burned and the air would be cleaner. When the road opens out, you have a nice petrol or diesel to do the long haul bit. Best of both worlds.
So Dan is now basically trolling pistonheads?
The article comprehensively misses the point. The bottom line is that air quality is a massive issue in overpopulated cities.
Hybrids give users an opportunity to reduce harmful emissions without the range anxiety associated with pure evs.
Eventually electric cars will be the answer, but the technology isn't there yet. Hybrid is a stop gap, but one that is vital in the future of personal transport. To suggest otherwise is just another example of the current "post truth" landscape we live in.
The article comprehensively misses the point. The bottom line is that air quality is a massive issue in overpopulated cities.
Hybrids give users an opportunity to reduce harmful emissions without the range anxiety associated with pure evs.
Eventually electric cars will be the answer, but the technology isn't there yet. Hybrid is a stop gap, but one that is vital in the future of personal transport. To suggest otherwise is just another example of the current "post truth" landscape we live in.
The Panamera might not be the best example, but the transition to electric is definitely being played out by petrol/electric hybrids. Forget Hydrogen, it's dead in the water (pun intended) unless they can crack the molecule of H2O without spending massive amounts of energy. Good luck with that.
One thing is correct, hybrids "are" the next diesel in the sense that they're today's area of push/development.
For 90% of the rolling stock, the quicker we move to EV, the better.
One thing is correct, hybrids "are" the next diesel in the sense that they're today's area of push/development.
For 90% of the rolling stock, the quicker we move to EV, the better.
Totally agree. We're already seeing things like i3's shedding their values, I watch with interest on the FB group people wondering what to do, when to upgrade. Also, I am most fascinated why anyone in this century would want to fight to charge a car up! I am totally with the concept, but let's not mess about with it. Produce very light boxes to commute, then add the technology to make cars faster. It's a bit of an oxymoron given the battery weight penalty, but then the bigger lie of the environmental 'sell' trumps everything! Let's sell a Panamera with a hulking great IC AND electric motor, then sprinkle some green dust over it.
Let's see in 5 years what the total cost of ownership is of the 1st and 2nd gen stuff from BMW. I bet it'll be horrific.
Let's see in 5 years what the total cost of ownership is of the 1st and 2nd gen stuff from BMW. I bet it'll be horrific.
Edited by anonymous-user on Sunday 19th March 13:29
liner33 said:
http://www.fuelly.com/car/toyota/prius
Rubbish , look at real world figures for what Prius owners are actually getting , we ran a 2.0 CR VAG diesel for 6 years it averaged 42-44mpg, on a long motorway trip we could hit 49mpg , we have run a Gen 3 Prius for 2 years on the same commute and its averaged 52-55mpg of the cheaper 95 unleaded, its massively cheaper to run.
On top of that you dont have to kill people with your diesel smoke
No, the battery production, along with the harvesting of alloys takes care of that. Of course that's 'if' you don't mind driving something so utterly horrible. It is really an unpleasant way to start and end your day, and that's before the ICE kicks in.Rubbish , look at real world figures for what Prius owners are actually getting , we ran a 2.0 CR VAG diesel for 6 years it averaged 42-44mpg, on a long motorway trip we could hit 49mpg , we have run a Gen 3 Prius for 2 years on the same commute and its averaged 52-55mpg of the cheaper 95 unleaded, its massively cheaper to run.
On top of that you dont have to kill people with your diesel smoke
A 30 mile range on battery power alone! This car was out of date the day it left the drawing board. Tesla has it beat for performance and environmental friendliness. This car is little more than a token gesture towards the environment and a prime example of jumping on the green bandwagon.
stuckmojo said:
The Panamera might not be the best example, but the transition to electric is definitely being played out by petrol/electric hybrids. Forget Hydrogen, it's dead in the water (pun intended) unless they can crack the molecule of H2O without spending massive amounts of energy. Good luck with that.
If we crack fusion in the next few decades the battery-powered car will be gone, and Hydrogen will be in. Almost unlimited electricity would be a complete revolution in terms of general usage.robemcdonald said:
So Dan is now basically trolling pistonheads?
The article comprehensively misses the point. The bottom line is that air quality is a massive issue in overpopulated cities.
I agree whenever I (don't) hear an electric car or hybrid in London I'm pleased it's not an additional IC engine making the filthy air worse. The article comprehensively misses the point. The bottom line is that air quality is a massive issue in overpopulated cities.
rxe said:
Every Uber-ist in London drives a Prius for one reason - they aren't expensive, they are reliable, economical, and they also hit the emissions targets.
Not only London, much of the world.The Prius is clearly genuinely more environmentally friendly than other vehicles for the given job (driving around cities picking people up and dropping them off), otherwise it wouldn't be so popular with people who count every penny of the bottom line.
This Porsche is not environmentally friendly at all, and does not deserve any tax incentives.
The problem is with the official drive cycle, which was defined in 1997 and is the responsibility of the UN (not even the EU).
steve1386 said:
I'm sorry, but a Prius will never achieve the same real word economy as a diesel, nor will any hybrid. If the battery is fully charged, then they are only useful in short, stop-start city traffic.
But that's exactly where diesels should be banned outright because they are noxious killers.So just about perfect really.
Hybrids are a good thing, as far as I'm concerned. As a driver, you get more power and a better economy (and they're pleasant things to drive, in my experience) and the legislators can enjoy their lower emissions. I'd rather walk through a town centre full of petrol hybrids than diesels.
Krikkit said:
stuckmojo said:
The Panamera might not be the best example, but the transition to electric is definitely being played out by petrol/electric hybrids. Forget Hydrogen, it's dead in the water (pun intended) unless they can crack the molecule of H2O without spending massive amounts of energy. Good luck with that.
If we crack fusion in the next few decades the battery-powered car will be gone, and Hydrogen will be in. Almost unlimited electricity would be a complete revolution in terms of general usage.
Let me explain why Dan should LOVE hybrids, especially high performance ones!
Consider the std, non hybrid Panamera Turbo, that put out 215 g/co2 every km you drive it, assuming you drive it like Ms Daisy. Drive it with spirit, you know, like you should drive a V8 turbo, and you be putting out over 1kg of Co2 for every Km you drive! How long do you think that is going to be allowed?
Now consider the hybrid, yes, it has silly low official Co2 numbers, but you know what, in the real world, because it can re-capture its KE back into the battery, when you drive it harder, it's no where near as bad as the non hybrid model.
So, do you want to have pure gasoline engines, but you'll be limited to driving around at 50mph, without any hard accel, or have the hybrid, where you can drive it like you want??
(PS: in reality, these are all stop gaps till pure EV's have a bit more range and acceptance (which is increasingly, not that far away.)
(PPS: to the poster saying "but we use fossil fuels to generate our power. Er, yes we do, but the grid is greening at a remarkable rate all over Europe, for example: DanishWindPowerExceedsDemand )
Consider the std, non hybrid Panamera Turbo, that put out 215 g/co2 every km you drive it, assuming you drive it like Ms Daisy. Drive it with spirit, you know, like you should drive a V8 turbo, and you be putting out over 1kg of Co2 for every Km you drive! How long do you think that is going to be allowed?
Now consider the hybrid, yes, it has silly low official Co2 numbers, but you know what, in the real world, because it can re-capture its KE back into the battery, when you drive it harder, it's no where near as bad as the non hybrid model.
So, do you want to have pure gasoline engines, but you'll be limited to driving around at 50mph, without any hard accel, or have the hybrid, where you can drive it like you want??
(PS: in reality, these are all stop gaps till pure EV's have a bit more range and acceptance (which is increasingly, not that far away.)
(PPS: to the poster saying "but we use fossil fuels to generate our power. Er, yes we do, but the grid is greening at a remarkable rate all over Europe, for example: DanishWindPowerExceedsDemand )
We're living in an imperfect time for battery tech. We dont yet have the ability to run pure EV's in the same ways as ICE cars. I think if we get to a point where EV's can comfortably do similar range, then maybe the need for the two engines will be defunct.
I mean, who knows? We may get to batteries that have significantly greater power density, and wind up looking at ICE as being a curiosity from an inefficient age.
I mean, who knows? We may get to batteries that have significantly greater power density, and wind up looking at ICE as being a curiosity from an inefficient age.
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