RE: Hybrids are the 'next diesel': Tell Me I'm Wrong
Discussion
yonex said:
No, the battery production, along with the harvesting of alloys takes care of that. Of course that's 'if' you don't mind driving something so utterly horrible. It is really an unpleasant way to start and end your day, and that's before the ICE kicks in.
Even with their production they are still greener than the alternatives Toyota have sold 1.5 million of the utterly horrible things so many people would disagree with you.
loose cannon said:
Tbh with all the jungles and forest's being chopped down for oak furniture village etc the collapse of sustainable fishing in the sea and the constant unsustainable population growth around the world do you really think a battery vehicle is going to save the planet 
Ok mr president.No one said hybrids were the answer to all the worlds problems did they? They are part of a solution to a particular issue; pollution in cities.
Take your point to its logical conclusion and it wouldn't be worth getting out of bed in the morning as we're all already doomed.
I think the big factor behind these being marketed on thier eco credentials, rather than thier high performance credentials is they are not ready to ramp up production of performance hybrids yet.
If they sold this as the fastest most high performance panamera, they'd probably increase demand for it, but reduce demand for the non hybrids, and if they are not able to meet the demand for the hybrids the affect would be reduced overall sales, as potential buyers would be holding out waiting for the hybrid.
In probably about 5 years time we will start to see an awful lot of high performance hybrids being sold, and they are going to be really really fast
If they sold this as the fastest most high performance panamera, they'd probably increase demand for it, but reduce demand for the non hybrids, and if they are not able to meet the demand for the hybrids the affect would be reduced overall sales, as potential buyers would be holding out waiting for the hybrid.
In probably about 5 years time we will start to see an awful lot of high performance hybrids being sold, and they are going to be really really fast
robemcdonald said:
Ok mr president.
No one said hybrids were the answer to all the worlds problems did they? They are part of a solution to a particular issue; pollution in cities.
Take your point to its logical conclusion and it wouldn't be worth getting out of bed in the morning as we're all already doomed.
Well not really I just carry on with life without falling for the latest bullsNo one said hybrids were the answer to all the worlds problems did they? They are part of a solution to a particular issue; pollution in cities.
Take your point to its logical conclusion and it wouldn't be worth getting out of bed in the morning as we're all already doomed.
t fashionable celebrity driven drivel tbh Mr president lol ok then
robemcdonald said:
So Dan is now basically trolling pistonheads?
The article comprehensively misses the point. The bottom line is that air quality is a massive issue in overpopulated cities.
Hybrids give users an opportunity to reduce harmful emissions without the range anxiety associated with pure evs.
Eventually electric cars will be the answer, but the technology isn't there yet. Hybrid is a stop gap, but one that is vital in the future of personal transport. To suggest otherwise is just another example of the current "post truth" landscape we live in.
He hits it head on. A 140 grand luxury car is made using vast resources and creating vast amounts of many might call unnecessary pollution, all so you can have *perfect* luxury leather and *perfect* luxury trim and a *perfect* 50 way electric massaging heated air conditiined seat etc etc etc. Instead of somthing that'll do you spend ten times as much money and resources and pollution to makes something perfect.The article comprehensively misses the point. The bottom line is that air quality is a massive issue in overpopulated cities.
Hybrids give users an opportunity to reduce harmful emissions without the range anxiety associated with pure evs.
Eventually electric cars will be the answer, but the technology isn't there yet. Hybrid is a stop gap, but one that is vital in the future of personal transport. To suggest otherwise is just another example of the current "post truth" landscape we live in.
Whether thats right or wrong to do is another row entirely, but to try to pass this off as a good for the environment eco-choice is utterly ridiculous.
And whats also ridiculous, is the guy sat in this in traffic next to me because hes too rarified to use public transport in central london will be paying no congestion charge, while i in my diesel van carrying half a ton of tools off to fix peoples broken electrics, I'm being punatively charged for making this "decision" to add "unnecessary" congenstion using the only commercially avaliable vehicle power.
If the whole carbon killing the world thing is right, simple observation will inform you we're idiotic and we're doomed.
Hybrids are a stepping stone to full electic. Battery tech still needs to take that big leap forward though packaging, clever tech, lightweight materials and other related tech help and are making them more practical.
Hybrids avoid doing the stupid thing at the moment which is to not be innovative and just stuff loads of batteris in a car to make it go fast. They are dirty, the logitics chain to produce them is terrible and they are heavy. So hybrids are a good compromise for now.
What completely cancels out the rationale, is putting them in very large vehicles simply to placate the wealthy and allow them to claim their tax breaks.
They are however better than SUV's which, when scientists and many other people are trying to find ways to conserve energy, reduce emmissions and use materials more efficIently are the usual reaction of those with dosh, my dosh, my decision, I will do what I like.
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Hybrids avoid doing the stupid thing at the moment which is to not be innovative and just stuff loads of batteris in a car to make it go fast. They are dirty, the logitics chain to produce them is terrible and they are heavy. So hybrids are a good compromise for now.
What completely cancels out the rationale, is putting them in very large vehicles simply to placate the wealthy and allow them to claim their tax breaks.
They are however better than SUV's which, when scientists and many other people are trying to find ways to conserve energy, reduce emmissions and use materials more efficIently are the usual reaction of those with dosh, my dosh, my decision, I will do what I like.
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liner33 said:
yonex said:
No, the battery production, along with the harvesting of alloys takes care of that. Of course that's 'if' you don't mind driving something so utterly horrible. It is really an unpleasant way to start and end your day, and that's before the ICE kicks in.
Even with their production they are still greener than the alternatives Toyota have sold 1.5 million of the utterly horrible things so many people would disagree with you.
Re: production numbers, yes they have undoubtedly sold well, but that is not an endorsement of a great car to drive? We have one in the extended family, perfectly reliable, 45mpg, but there's no getting away from the experience. Each to their own, but i'd take an i3 over one and an Insight over both.
I know of an Outlander PHEV that gets driven on electric to work, charged at work and then driven home and charged at home. But if the driver needs to go more than 30 or so miles then he can fill it up and off he goes.
If there was one that appealed to me in my price range I would certainly consider one to use like this. I drive 20 miles a day normally but other days I may do 400 miles, and I don't want to be stopping and having long breaks to charge up an electric (if there were any electrics I could afford that suited me).
I kind of agree with the principle of the article it doesn't make sense to have two drivetrains unless you can manage on electric for 90% of the time. I at least wouldn't be doing it to save the planet, It would be to save me money. From memory I didn't think cars were actually that bad compared to industry? And of course they have to make the batteries which supposedly isnt that green in itself?
If there was one that appealed to me in my price range I would certainly consider one to use like this. I drive 20 miles a day normally but other days I may do 400 miles, and I don't want to be stopping and having long breaks to charge up an electric (if there were any electrics I could afford that suited me).
I kind of agree with the principle of the article it doesn't make sense to have two drivetrains unless you can manage on electric for 90% of the time. I at least wouldn't be doing it to save the planet, It would be to save me money. From memory I didn't think cars were actually that bad compared to industry? And of course they have to make the batteries which supposedly isnt that green in itself?
I work in what can generally be described as the building trade. Most new apartment blocks being built now require Carbon Filtration (a real least on the lower floors) because of pollution. Many roads in London had hit their annual maximum pollution targets a few days into the year. These aren't celebrity fads to the latest liberal aggenda. These are simple facts. The information is readily available to anyone who is interested. It's not about people skewing things to fit their world view it's just simple counting.
Edited by robemcdonald on Sunday 19th March 15:13
Krikkit said:
stuckmojo said:
The Panamera might not be the best example, but the transition to electric is definitely being played out by petrol/electric hybrids. Forget Hydrogen, it's dead in the water (pun intended) unless they can crack the molecule of H2O without spending massive amounts of energy. Good luck with that.
If we crack fusion in the next few decades the battery-powered car will be gone, and Hydrogen will be in. Almost unlimited electricity would be a complete revolution in terms of general usage.Hydrogen will be a good option for haulage, long distance drivers and range extenders. But it's not the answer to all the questions.
Evanivitch said:
Krikkit said:
stuckmojo said:
The Panamera might not be the best example, but the transition to electric is definitely being played out by petrol/electric hybrids. Forget Hydrogen, it's dead in the water (pun intended) unless they can crack the molecule of H2O without spending massive amounts of energy. Good luck with that.
If we crack fusion in the next few decades the battery-powered car will be gone, and Hydrogen will be in. Almost unlimited electricity would be a complete revolution in terms of general usage.Hydrogen will be a good option for haulage, long distance drivers and range extenders. But it's not the answer to all the questions.
Edited for flipping iPad keyboard.
Edited by robemcdonald on Sunday 19th March 15:24
yonex said:
You have evidence of this?
Re: production numbers, yes they have undoubtedly sold well, but that is not an endorsement of a great car to drive? We have one in the extended family, perfectly reliable, 45mpg, but there's no getting away from the experience. Each to their own, but i'd take an i3 over one and an Insight over both.
Do you have evidence that they do ? Much of the battery production horror stories are desperately out of date and bear little resemblance to the modern manufacturing processes they belong along with the "jet fuel cant melt steel beams" arguments Re: production numbers, yes they have undoubtedly sold well, but that is not an endorsement of a great car to drive? We have one in the extended family, perfectly reliable, 45mpg, but there's no getting away from the experience. Each to their own, but i'd take an i3 over one and an Insight over both.
I didn't say they are a great car to drive you said they were utterly horrible, most owners would disagree with that, I find they are like many modern ICE cars , diesel included, simply white goods and as such inoffensive and unremarkable
robemcdonald said:
Evanivitch said:
Krikkit said:
stuckmojo said:
The Panamera might not be the best example, but the transition to electric is definitely being played out by petrol/electric hybrids. Forget Hydrogen, it's dead in the water (pun intended) unless they can crack the molecule of H2O without spending massive amounts of energy. Good luck with that.
If we crack fusion in the next few decades the battery-powered car will be gone, and Hydrogen will be in. Almost unlimited electricity would be a complete revolution in terms of general usage.Hydrogen will be a good option for haulage, long distance drivers and range extenders. But it's not the answer to all the questions.
Edited for flipping iPad keyboard.
Edited by robemcdonald on Sunday 19th March 15:24
liner33 said:
steve1386 said:
I'm sorry, but a Prius will never achieve the same real word economy as a diesel, nor will any hybrid. If the battery is fully charged, then they are only useful in short, stop-start city traffic.
Take one on a motorway for a long journey and you'll be lucky to see 40mpg.
On top of that you have to tell someone you drive a Prius!
http://www.fuelly.com/car/toyota/priusTake one on a motorway for a long journey and you'll be lucky to see 40mpg.
On top of that you have to tell someone you drive a Prius!
Rubbish , look at real world figures for what Prius owners are actually getting , we ran a 2.0 CR VAG diesel for 6 years it averaged 42-44mpg, on a long motorway trip we could hit 49mpg , we have run a Gen 3 Prius for 2 years on the same commute and its averaged 52-55mpg of the cheaper 95 unleaded, its massively cheaper to run.
On top of that you dont have to kill people with your diesel smoke
Yipper said:
Electric will not be the future.
There is not enough lithium, new or recyclable, in the land, sea or space to electrify the world's billion vehicles for the next century. Like diesel, electric will have a couple of hot decades and then fade away.
Remember where you read it first.
Oh no! If only someone was researching alternatives. Oh wait a second https://www.forbes.com/sites/marcochiappetta/2017/...There is not enough lithium, new or recyclable, in the land, sea or space to electrify the world's billion vehicles for the next century. Like diesel, electric will have a couple of hot decades and then fade away.
Remember where you read it first.
Literally the first thing that came up on Google. He won't be the only one working on the tech either.
rxe said:
Every Uber-ist in London drives a Prius for one reason - they aren't expensive, they are reliable, economical, and they also hit the emissions targets.
The stupid official tests are driving manufacturers to put too much range in these - you only need 5 miles or so to have "electric boost" and also be all electric in slow moving traffic. If all the cars crawling around major cities were hybrid, a lot less fuel would be burned and the air would be cleaner. When the road opens out, you have a nice petrol or diesel to do the long haul bit. Best of both worlds.
Our station taxi rank is about 50% prius. When I've been a passenger I've asked why they chose a Prius. I always get the same answer, they are reliable and economical. The stupid official tests are driving manufacturers to put too much range in these - you only need 5 miles or so to have "electric boost" and also be all electric in slow moving traffic. If all the cars crawling around major cities were hybrid, a lot less fuel would be burned and the air would be cleaner. When the road opens out, you have a nice petrol or diesel to do the long haul bit. Best of both worlds.
Taxi drivers have no reason to bulls
t on that front. If they were crap they wouldn't buy them.Gassing Station | General Gassing | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff