RE: Hybrids are the 'next diesel': Tell Me I'm Wrong
Discussion
steve1386 said:
I'm sorry, but a Prius will never achieve the same real word economy as a diesel, nor will any hybrid. If the battery is fully charged, then they are only useful in short, stop-start city traffic.
Take one on a motorway for a long journey and you'll be lucky to see 40mpg.
On top of that you have to tell someone you drive a Prius!
Sorry, that is not true Take one on a motorway for a long journey and you'll be lucky to see 40mpg.
On top of that you have to tell someone you drive a Prius!
my wife drives 120D. The Prius uses the exact same l/100km or mpg as hers at the same speed on the highway. I blame gearbox losses and low roll resistance tyres for that.
Next. I do 80% highway. Driving a indicated 108km/h or a GPS 102km/h, so 62 miles per hour I get 4.8l /100km (59 mpg) in summer and 5.6 (50 mpg (UK)) in winter. This is not momentarily read data, but litres at the station from fill up to fill up. I have the car for 4 years and have driven 90000 km with it.
In order to hit your postulated 7.1 l/100km or 40 mpg UK, I have to drive more like 160 km/h or 100 mph. you will actually have a hard time, means next to impossible, to hit that figure at all in real world driving outside of a german autobahn without a speed limit. You can provoke it, but then you have to literally drive like a jerk. WOT followed by hard braking or just 1-2 miles trips followed by a long cool down period.
Cab drivers in Germany get about 6.2l/100 km or 46 mpg UK starting the car in the morning and swichting it off in the evening. These are data fro ma cab company owner in Berlin. Their Merc Diesels yield 10 l/100 km or 28 mpg UK.
Here are long time multi user data form the german website spritmonitor.de:
https://www.spritmonitor.de/en/overview/49-Toyota/...
Average real world milage for 2004-2008 Prius gen2 cars is 5.21 l/100km or 54 mpg UK. Data from 1228 people. of those only 7 !! report a consumption of 7.2l or higher. I'd say their brake pads are stuck or there is an other defect such a broken battery cell. This disables the hybrid drive for a big part.
This is list of the most efficient vehicles: Again real user data, no NEFZ manufacturer BS:
https://www.spritmonitor.de/en/evaluation/economic...
now check the sizes. The Prius is fairly large with spacious rear seats. The 3 petrol cars better than the prius are the Yaris, a Suzuki Celery and a Nissan Pixo. These are tiny cars with no boot or rear seats good for long distance travel.
Let's check the Diesels and look for a car of comparable size. The first one not being a micro car I spot is the Citroen C4 Cactus hitting 4.8 l/100 km. This car is brand new. The 2nd Gen Prius was on the market from 2004!
BTW, I drive a 200+HP Lotus Elise as a fun car. :-)
https://youtu.be/8GjZZphBXko?t=15s
https://youtu.be/onYUHH0muNc?t=17s
thegreenhell said:
Well clearly the reason for the Prius' popularity as a minicab has nothing at all to do with it being environmentally friendly. As you you state, it's all to do with their owners' penny-pinching. If a financial loophole suddenly opened up that meant that a carburated V8 was the cheapest car to run that's what you'd see every taxi driver using.
What I meant is that they cost less to run as they use less (highly taxed) fuel than other vehicles. Which does, for a reasonable definition, make them more environmentally friendly.Funny this VAG group mpg stuff.
Using fill-up figures rather than the OBD figure I'm getting 51-54 mpg depending on traffic and ambient temperatures, obtained over a 7mile each way school run twice a day.
The difference to me is that using a hybrid only displaces the pollution from the route along which ky car runs to a (usually) more remote power station than makes the electrickety.
I wonder what the overall view of the hybrid would be if we didn't have a market supported by company car drivers?
And as for taxi drivers saying how reliable the Pious is, sorry but my belief is that it's their choice because it negates the need to pay a congestion charge. And if they get 'free' recharging, then that's another standing cost they don't need to account for.
I'll happily have a hybrid or fully electric car when the powers that be that we don't vote for actually start to use wave and wind power in a more efficient way.
Funnily enough, I have actually noticed a veritable fleet of Teslas around Chesterfield, which must say something...
Using fill-up figures rather than the OBD figure I'm getting 51-54 mpg depending on traffic and ambient temperatures, obtained over a 7mile each way school run twice a day.
The difference to me is that using a hybrid only displaces the pollution from the route along which ky car runs to a (usually) more remote power station than makes the electrickety.
I wonder what the overall view of the hybrid would be if we didn't have a market supported by company car drivers?
And as for taxi drivers saying how reliable the Pious is, sorry but my belief is that it's their choice because it negates the need to pay a congestion charge. And if they get 'free' recharging, then that's another standing cost they don't need to account for.
I'll happily have a hybrid or fully electric car when the powers that be that we don't vote for actually start to use wave and wind power in a more efficient way.
Funnily enough, I have actually noticed a veritable fleet of Teslas around Chesterfield, which must say something...
rtz62 said:
The difference to me is that using a hybrid only displaces the pollution from the route along which ky car runs to a (usually) more remote power station than makes the electrickety.
That in itself is a good thing. Less people breathing noxious emmisions is good. There are two sides of this, people seem to be missing one.
One is 'saving the planet', the other is causing less harm to humans.
The VW scandal was totally not about saving the planet. It was about chucking out obscene amounts of NOx right where people breathe. A gas that kills.
b
hstewie said:
hstewie said: Incidentally, and no idea how true this is, but apparently 15 of the worlds largest cargo ships are supposed to emit as much at all the worlds cars combined.
It's something I read and doubtless somewhere there's a counter article but if it's even half true it does show a little of the futility of anything we can do as motorists.
In terms of Sulphur output..... I don't think you're running your car on high sulphur fuels though.It's something I read and doubtless somewhere there's a counter article but if it's even half true it does show a little of the futility of anything we can do as motorists.
rtz62 said:
The difference to me is that using a hybrid only displaces the pollution from the route along which ky car runs to a (usually) more remote power station than makes the electrickety.
Unless you are talking about plug in hybrids, hybrids generate their electricity by recovering energy normally lost as heat through the brakes. There must be some reason you don't see this as a good thing, but nothing is leaping out at me. Even plug in hybrids will reduce local emissions even if they are getting their power from a dirty coal power station. You could have solar PV panels at home and charge it from that, for almost no environmental cost, or use a smart meter that uses the cars battery to put power back into the grid on peak, and use off peak electricity to charge it back, which smooths out demand. Can't see a problem here either.
The man that looks after my car also looks after a Prius among others, he said it had over 250,000 miles on it and has never gone wrong once.
rtz62 said:
And as for taxi drivers saying how reliable the Pious is, sorry but my belief is that it's their choice because it negates the need to pay a congestion charge.
Yeah, you'll note that you only ever see Prius taxis in places where there is a congestion charge, never anywhere else. Except of course for the loads of places where there isn't a congestion charge and you do see them. 
The manufacturers are heavily influencing the technology release schedule so as not to cut off their revenue stream prematurely. This film is well worth a watch: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Who_Killed_the_Elect...
The car which is the subject of this film was 'too'successful and so caused a bit of a flap.
The car which is the subject of this film was 'too'successful and so caused a bit of a flap.
rtz62 said:
Funny this VAG group mpg stuff.
Using fill-up figures rather than the OBD figure I'm getting 51-54 mpg depending on traffic and ambient temperatures, obtained over a 7mile each way school run twice a day.
The difference to me is that using a hybrid only displaces the pollution from the route along which ky car runs to a (usually) more remote power station than makes the electrickety.
I wonder what the overall view of the hybrid would be if we didn't have a market supported by company car drivers?
And as for taxi drivers saying how reliable the Pious is, sorry but my belief is that it's their choice because it negates the need to pay a congestion charge. And if they get 'free' recharging, then that's another standing cost they don't need to account for.
I'll happily have a hybrid or fully electric car when the powers that be that we don't vote for actually start to use wave and wind power in a more efficient way.
Funnily enough, I have actually noticed a veritable fleet of Teslas around Chesterfield, which must say something...
Cute, you think the bulk of Prius can actually be charged up!? Nope it's all onboard energy shifting, nothing from the grid.Using fill-up figures rather than the OBD figure I'm getting 51-54 mpg depending on traffic and ambient temperatures, obtained over a 7mile each way school run twice a day.
The difference to me is that using a hybrid only displaces the pollution from the route along which ky car runs to a (usually) more remote power station than makes the electrickety.
I wonder what the overall view of the hybrid would be if we didn't have a market supported by company car drivers?
And as for taxi drivers saying how reliable the Pious is, sorry but my belief is that it's their choice because it negates the need to pay a congestion charge. And if they get 'free' recharging, then that's another standing cost they don't need to account for.
I'll happily have a hybrid or fully electric car when the powers that be that we don't vote for actually start to use wave and wind power in a more efficient way.
Funnily enough, I have actually noticed a veritable fleet of Teslas around Chesterfield, which must say something...
northwestrecovery said:
Why would anyone want to drive a prius or any other toyota jelly mould crap is beyond me , does anyone drive for fun anymore ? reminds me of swampy from years ago in here ! .he was nuts too !
Yes, and i know several high mileage drivers like myself that have a second car for those fun days.Thought some people obviously think a 320d is the perfect one car solution. Blurgh.
rxe said:
Every Uber-ist in London drives a Prius for one reason - they aren't expensive, they are reliable, economical, and they also hit the emissions targets.
I use Uber because they are cheap and have a much lower impact on the local environment i.e., the one in which I live.That said, the downside is that the drivers don't know where they're going which can be tedious on a cross London journey.
I find it incredible that cities still allow the diesel engines that black cabs use.
robemcdonald said:
So Dan is now basically trolling pistonheads?
I'm unclear on the point of the article, worse case hybrids (of all varieties), have identical fuel economy, relocate some energy production and have lower particulate emissions.Best case they're more fuel efficient (on vehicle and off site electricity production), lower emissions and have better fuel economy.
Not sure what the article is actually having a pop at?
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