RE: Renault 19 16v: Catch It While You Can
Discussion
Alex Robbins in article said:
A good, clean Mk2 Golf 16v with reasonable mileage is now well north of £5,000, while - somewhat unbelievably - a Mk5 Escort RS2000 in similar nick is approaching that figure, a thread we'll pick up on another day[
That does smack somewhat of badge snobbery - why is it believable that a Golf Gti would be over 5k but an RS under 5k is astonishing? The RS2000 got very good reviews - it's not quite the same as the SOTW Mk6 that came up recently
s m said:
That does smack somewhat of badge snobbery - why is it believable that a Golf Gti would be over 5k but an RS under 5k is astonishing?
The RS2000 got very good reviews - it's not quite the same as the SOTW Mk6 that came up recently
It only got good reviews because offending Ford with their vast marketing budget was commercial suicide for any mag. Anyone who has driven any variant of FWD Escort and a few of its contemporaries can give you the truth about them: absolute fThe RS2000 got very good reviews - it's not quite the same as the SOTW Mk6 that came up recently
king crap once you take off the rose tinted spectacles.The Renault 19 was so lively and had such sweet and eager engines even in cooking spec it is hardly comparable to the Dagenham Dustbins.
dme123 said:
s m said:
That does smack somewhat of badge snobbery - why is it believable that a Golf Gti would be over 5k but an RS under 5k is astonishing?
The RS2000 got very good reviews - it's not quite the same as the SOTW Mk6 that came up recently
It only got good reviews because offending Ford with their vast marketing budget was commercial suicide for any mag. Anyone who has driven any variant of FWD Escort and a few of its contemporaries can give you the truth about them: absolute fThe RS2000 got very good reviews - it's not quite the same as the SOTW Mk6 that came up recently
king crap once you take off the rose tinted spectacles.The Renault 19 was so lively and had such sweet and eager engines even in cooking spec it is hardly comparable to the Dagenham Dustbins.
So reviews are only worth listening to if you agree with them and every journalist that wrote that was in the pocket of Ford?
Fiat must have paid a lot then as the Tipo won most of the reviews in this class at that time....or the Civic. Or was that fixed too?
I had a phase 2 in metallic black with black leather, the reliability of it was awfull use to drive along and alarm would go off when driving along looked like I stole it 
It also broke it's drive shaft once and it broke again a week after being fixed.
Sold it in the end to guy who took it 2 test drives and he took it to silly speeds in a 40 zone during second test drive, had to tell him to slow down.
He bought the car off me then a week later he texted saying clutch has gone on it then another week later he texted saying head gasket went and tried claim compensation off me as he reckoned I sold him a dud.
The thing was such a money pit still remember it running out fuel as I drove into petrol station with gauge showing 1/3 left in tank, I thought it broken down but it was out of fuel how laughed with relief when I found out.
It also broke it's drive shaft once and it broke again a week after being fixed.
Sold it in the end to guy who took it 2 test drives and he took it to silly speeds in a 40 zone during second test drive, had to tell him to slow down.
He bought the car off me then a week later he texted saying clutch has gone on it then another week later he texted saying head gasket went and tried claim compensation off me as he reckoned I sold him a dud.
The thing was such a money pit still remember it running out fuel as I drove into petrol station with gauge showing 1/3 left in tank, I thought it broken down but it was out of fuel
how laughed with relief when I found out.AnneTeak said:
Brings back memories of the Citroen ZX Volcane (1.9 + 2.0 petrol as well as a 2.0 diesel - one of the first diesel "hot" hatches). Good luck trying to find one now though!
My first car was a ZX, albeit a rubbish (almost) bottom of the range 'Avantage'... so I lusted after the Volcane. The ZX 16v was top of the tree though, but rare even at the time!As for the Renault... There were quite a few around back in the day, but I'm not surprised that there aren't that many left as they were pretty flaky. Apart from the smaller models like the 5s and the Clios, Renaults don't seem to obtain desirable classic status. I do think that a few examples of everything should be preserved though and I admire those that keep them running!
Had one from new back in 93, Sports Blue 16v 3 door, was a great car but lacked torque so you really needed to work it to get the most out of it.
Phase 1's had an issue with the front suspension and uprated suspension is denoted by a blue mark on the top mount.
Was a fun car, replaced it with a phase 1 Peugeot 306 GTI-6, sales guy said they sold it the day after to someone who came in to look at a 306 XSI.
Phase 1's had an issue with the front suspension and uprated suspension is denoted by a blue mark on the top mount.
Was a fun car, replaced it with a phase 1 Peugeot 306 GTI-6, sales guy said they sold it the day after to someone who came in to look at a 306 XSI.
I had a beautiful phase 1 Chamade in Blue. Wonderful to drive, near zero body roll, the window switches were on the dash and it had yellow driving lights (pretty cool, eh).
Trouble was all that Gallic flair came with Gallic build quality. The engine is unusual in that the exhaust manifold is at the back, wrapped around the starter motor which gets cooked. The engine bay runs stupid-hot all the time. The alternator failed. The clutch cables snap. Often. CV joints, springs. You get the idea.
When it worked it was fantastic.. just don't expect the start motor to turn over if the engine's hot.
Trouble was all that Gallic flair came with Gallic build quality. The engine is unusual in that the exhaust manifold is at the back, wrapped around the starter motor which gets cooked. The engine bay runs stupid-hot all the time. The alternator failed. The clutch cables snap. Often. CV joints, springs. You get the idea.
When it worked it was fantastic.. just don't expect the start motor to turn over if the engine's hot.
I had the 8v RSI model but also a p1 Clio 16v - 19 had a fantastically pliant and forgiving chassis from memory - the engine, in the Clio at least was a real gem, smooth, revvy and endless surge which felt great at the time - I'd love another 19, real fond memories and easily the best French motor I've owned - very reliable, comfortable and at the time, quite stylish from memory
Itsallicanafford said:
The thing is, cars like this can be initially purchased relatively cheaply (if you can find one in the case of the 19). But the purchase price is only ever going to be a down payment on the costs to come...you have got to be dedicated and have deep pockets to keep a car like this on the road when it has already far exceeded its design life.
Even if it doubles in value over the next 3 years, you would be unlikely to cover the cost of the repairs and general de-bodging that you will have to outlay.
So catch it while you can if you loved the 19 back in the day and don't mind spending money to keep one on the road to relive your youth but don't think of it as some kind of investment.
Yes well said.Even if it doubles in value over the next 3 years, you would be unlikely to cover the cost of the repairs and general de-bodging that you will have to outlay.
So catch it while you can if you loved the 19 back in the day and don't mind spending money to keep one on the road to relive your youth but don't think of it as some kind of investment.
For some reason I lusted after one of these, preferred the earlier phase one model H/J Plate in deep blue. I never got it as when I was car hunting for my second car back in 1997/98 insurance costs were too high for me, used prices were pretty strong around that time.
I still think of them as the worlds most underrated Hot Hatches , top of the class for a while, What Car Magazine made it hot hatch of the year in 1991 and it won a road test against the Golf GTI (I still have the issue in the loft) about the only chance I get to see a 19 16v these days is reading the magazine.
There was a red phase 1 at the NEC Classic car show the first one ive seen in the flesh for over 10 years . a rarer beast must be the quick 21 Turbo.
I still think of them as the worlds most underrated Hot Hatches , top of the class for a while, What Car Magazine made it hot hatch of the year in 1991 and it won a road test against the Golf GTI (I still have the issue in the loft) about the only chance I get to see a 19 16v these days is reading the magazine.
There was a red phase 1 at the NEC Classic car show the first one ive seen in the flesh for over 10 years . a rarer beast must be the quick 21 Turbo.
s m said:
Seriously?
So reviews are only worth listening to if you agree with them and every journalist that wrote that was in the pocket of Ford?
Fiat must have paid a lot then as the Tipo won most of the reviews in this class at that time....or the Civic. Or was that fixed too?
Logical fallacy there. Just because some cars only get good reviews because the publication dare not say anything too negative doesn't mean that's the only way to get good reviews. Some are good cars. Just not the Escort. So reviews are only worth listening to if you agree with them and every journalist that wrote that was in the pocket of Ford?
Fiat must have paid a lot then as the Tipo won most of the reviews in this class at that time....or the Civic. Or was that fixed too?
Do you actually think the mk3 to mk6 Escorts were at best mediocre to poor compared to the best in class at the time? They were selling them new until 1998 but my 2005 they were pretty much all gone, a testament to their enduring appeal and quality
Next door neighbour had a blue hatch in the nineties when I was a teenager. Really fancied one back in those days, but I've never ever been in one (or in fact any variant of Renault 19). Haven't seen one of these on the roads in donkeys years!
Bit of a strange article in some ways though. It certainly qualifies for "catch it while you can" due to rarity, but odd to suggest that these are an affordable way of getting in to 90s 16v hot hatch ownership. If you accept that should you be lucky enough to find one for sale you will inevitably have to chuck many times more money at it in replacement parts, it makes more sense to buy something else that won't be quite so challenging to source parts for. 306 GTIs and Xsara VTIs are surely still much easier to come by without breaking the bank, hell, even 16v converted 205GTIs can still be picked up for a couple of grand and parts supply is still pretty good (and even getting better with a lot of repro parts starting to be made), and they don't have to cost mega bucks to restore or maintain.
Bit of a strange article in some ways though. It certainly qualifies for "catch it while you can" due to rarity, but odd to suggest that these are an affordable way of getting in to 90s 16v hot hatch ownership. If you accept that should you be lucky enough to find one for sale you will inevitably have to chuck many times more money at it in replacement parts, it makes more sense to buy something else that won't be quite so challenging to source parts for. 306 GTIs and Xsara VTIs are surely still much easier to come by without breaking the bank, hell, even 16v converted 205GTIs can still be picked up for a couple of grand and parts supply is still pretty good (and even getting better with a lot of repro parts starting to be made), and they don't have to cost mega bucks to restore or maintain.
foggy1974 said:
Loved my 1992 red 3 door, bought in 2000 for £2000. It was immaculate, and I always preferred the pre facelift version.
Quickly learned all about lift off oversteer - Yikes!
I did change the restrictive airbox which gave a gain of 14bhp and a noise to die for.
You should have stuck on one of those £5 ebay chips, you'd have got another 20bhp on top! And a K&N sticker on the slam panel is good for another couple. Also fold the rear seats down to improve acceleration.Quickly learned all about lift off oversteer - Yikes!
I did change the restrictive airbox which gave a gain of 14bhp and a noise to die for.
dme123 said:
s m said:
That does smack somewhat of badge snobbery - why is it believable that a Golf Gti would be over 5k but an RS under 5k is astonishing?
The RS2000 got very good reviews - it's not quite the same as the SOTW Mk6 that came up recently
It only got good reviews because offending Ford with their vast marketing budget was commercial suicide for any mag. Anyone who has driven any variant of FWD Escort and a few of its contemporaries can give you the truth about them: absolute fThe RS2000 got very good reviews - it's not quite the same as the SOTW Mk6 that came up recently
king crap once you take off the rose tinted spectacles.The Renault 19 was so lively and had such sweet and eager engines even in cooking spec it is hardly comparable to the Dagenham Dustbins.
The 19 16v was a bitter sweet car for me, enjoyed it, but the constant breaking, plus being an utter PITA to work on meant in the end it had to go. The RS2K I had got hammered day in day out for a year & a half, and never broke. I only sold it to buy another Saph Cosworth off a mate, who took the RS2K in p/x... he ended up keeping it for 3 years!
One of my other favorites was my second ever car, a Mk2 Astra GTE16v, chassis was pretty poor, but that red top 2.0xe really was pretty brutal with a bit of mild tuning, and bulletproof as well...
Edited by RWD cossie wil on Thursday 23 March 04:54
RWD cossie wil said:
dme123 said:
s m said:
That does smack somewhat of badge snobbery - why is it believable that a Golf Gti would be over 5k but an RS under 5k is astonishing?
The RS2000 got very good reviews - it's not quite the same as the SOTW Mk6 that came up recently
It only got good reviews because offending Ford with their vast marketing budget was commercial suicide for any mag. Anyone who has driven any variant of FWD Escort and a few of its contemporaries can give you the truth about them: absolute fThe RS2000 got very good reviews - it's not quite the same as the SOTW Mk6 that came up recently
king crap once you take off the rose tinted spectacles.The Renault 19 was so lively and had such sweet and eager engines even in cooking spec it is hardly comparable to the Dagenham Dustbins.
The 19 16v was a bitter sweet car for me, enjoyed it, but the constant breaking, plus being an utter PITA to work on meant in the end it had to go. The RS2K I had got hammered day in day out for a year & a half, and never broke. I only sold it to buy another Saph Cosworth off a mate, who took the RS2K in p/x... he ended up keeping it for 3 years!
One of my other favorites was my second ever car, a Mk2 Astra GTE16v, chassis was pretty poor, but that red top 2.0xe really was pretty brutal with a bit of mild tuning, and bulletproof as well...
Edited by RWD cossie wil on Thursday 23 March 04:54
2 things the RS2000 had going for it, the RS badge and the recaro seats, the rest of the package was poor and was slated by Ford enthusiasts at the time, that didnt mean that it didnt sell, but it was a time when ford produced cars lije the xr3i and xr2i, both poor remakes of previous generations, it was only really the Cosworths that saved Ford's reputation in the performance market.
Class leaders at the time were the Renault 19 16v, Golf GTi 16v mk3 and the Nissan Sunny GTi, Ford were not even in the mix with this lot considering there were still other, and far better cars like the Peugeot 306 S16 (even the XSI was rated a better car than the Ford), Citroen ZX 16v, BMW 318ti etc.
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