RE: Renault 19 16v: Catch It While You Can
Discussion
Strugs said:
Ah French hot hatches.. always had a soft spot for the 'sub-halo' models too.. had two 309GTis (at the same time!) back in the day, and then a spell of 'halo' with ZX Volcane followed by ZX 16v and the then latterly a 306 GTi-6.. "the one that got away" for me, though - when I couldn't a 5 (or a Clio) was the Renault 11 Turbo.. mmmm...
I too had the 309gti, great handling car, plus an earlier Golf Gti and the 16v Astra.Most of my friends had hot hatches in the early 90s, one was a diehard Renault fan, he had a 5GT turbo then a brief flirtation with a 1.9 205 ....swapped in for a Clio Williams. He tried the 19 16v but found it quite a bit slower so stuck with the Clio even though it had a lot of oil leaks. Another went through all the Fords - I thought they were pretty good even from a French hot hatch driving seat. Also had a friend who went 105 Strada to 130 Abarth, then Delta HF turbo - he never got the Tipo 16v but it sounded by all accounts well worth trying. He went to an Integrale after the HF Turbo.....sadly that rather put him off Italian cars because of a fair few problems with it
My dad owned one of these although the saloon not the hatch and had endless problems
So maybe here are a few reasons you cant find a decent one:
1. The electronic dipstick didn't work properly - so they could get very low on oil without you knowing. Dad got a new engine in his because of this.
2. the front suspension mounting points were very weak and failed twice, also replaced.
I had been driving for a few years by the time my dad had this (which replaced his 1.6 205 GTi) and the seats were some of the best I have ever sat in, the handling was great and the performance was good for the day...much faster than the Pug.
But in reality...it's French and from the 90's - so buy at your peril!
So maybe here are a few reasons you cant find a decent one:
1. The electronic dipstick didn't work properly - so they could get very low on oil without you knowing. Dad got a new engine in his because of this.
2. the front suspension mounting points were very weak and failed twice, also replaced.
I had been driving for a few years by the time my dad had this (which replaced his 1.6 205 GTi) and the seats were some of the best I have ever sat in, the handling was great and the performance was good for the day...much faster than the Pug.
But in reality...it's French and from the 90's - so buy at your peril!
Terminator X said:
Old enough to remember when they first came out, loved them back then. As article says though almost impossible to find one for sale these days.
TX.
If you fancy a summer project......TX.
http://www.carandclassic.co.uk/car/C819143
Needs, "some restoration"
s m said:
dme123 said:
s m said:
dme123 said:
s m said:
That does smack somewhat of badge snobbery - why is it believable that a Golf Gti would be over 5k but an RS under 5k is astonishing?
The RS2000 got very good reviews - it's not quite the same as the SOTW Mk6 that came up recently
It only got good reviews because offending Ford with their vast marketing budget was commercial suicide for any mag. Anyone who has driven any variant of FWD Escort and a few of its contemporaries can give you the truth about them: absolute fThe RS2000 got very good reviews - it's not quite the same as the SOTW Mk6 that came up recently
king crap once you take off the rose tinted spectacles.The Renault 19 was so lively and had such sweet and eager engines even in cooking spec it is hardly comparable to the Dagefnham Dustbins.
So reviews are only worth listening to if you agree with them and every journalist that wrote that was in the pocket of Ford?
Fiat must have paid a lot then as the Tipo won most of the reviews in this class at that time....or the Civic. Or was that fixed too?
Do you actually think the mk3 to mk6 Escorts were at best mediocre to poor compared to the best in class at the time? They were selling them new until 1998 but my 2005 they were pretty much all gone, a testament to their enduring appeal and quality
You might say it's a logical fallacy.... however, the thing is the mags weren't saying the rest of the range were great.....or had become great by association to the RS2000.
This is Autocar's précis on the Mk5 Escort, ordinary model in 1991 ......they hardly look like they're trying to retain an advertising budget
By all accounts they weren't great driving cars - all the mags are pretty consistent with that view
This is what they wrote about the RS2000 in 1991
They even made a special mention of the RS2000 in their end of year review as it was such a surprise after the ordinary Escorts
After Jackie Stewart drove the Mk5 Escort and said it was basically "rubbish" it was given to John Wheeler at Special Vehicle Engineering who worked the whole car over to come out with something better.
Late 91/1992 the Tipo 16v and Civic VTi were the two cars that had this class of hot hatch sewn up, differences appealed to different mags/drivers They were generally looking at how good/fun a hot hatch it was, driving/handling, rather than build quality - none of these cars were particularly well-built or rust-proofed as we now know
The RS2000 was naturally put up against the best in class ( if you read this below they once again mention how good the RS2000 is compared to the normal Escorts )
The Tipo won, Escort placed second ahead of the Civic in 3rd and Astra GSi in 4th
So, that was one mag, Autocar and their opinion.
Then CAR magazine tested it, once again, up against the Tipo 16v, Civic VTi, Renault 16v, Rover 220Gti and the Astra GSi.
Their opening gambit on the RS2000 was .."it's quick, it's capable, it's fun. Can it really be an Escort? It does make you wonder how, from a base as awful as the standard Escort, Ford can produce a car of this quality"
Once again, the top 2 places went to the Civic and Tipo. The RS2000 took 3rd, the Renault 19 16v 4th, Rover 5th and Astra GSi 6th
Here are Setright's and Bulgin's Counterpoints on the cars - interesting to read their comments on the RS2000
Bulgin......"...as a hot hatch the Ford Escort RS2000 nudges excellence: as a Ford Escort it's mind-warpingly brilliant.... " ......." .......the best car here is the Fiat Tipo ...."
So, not exactly a wooden spoon for the RS2000 from CAR magazine.
Thank you for sharing that. I'm more nostalgic for Bulgin's pithy and insightful journalism than for the cars themselves. Although if we'd be talking Visa GTIs.... Hens teeth though!
lsclayton said:
My dad owned one of these although the saloon not the hatch and had endless problems
So maybe here are a few reasons you cant find a decent one:
1. The electronic dipstick didn't work properly - so they could get very low on oil without you knowing. Dad got a new engine in his because of this.
2. the front suspension mounting points were very weak and failed twice, also replaced.
I had been driving for a few years by the time my dad had this (which replaced his 1.6 205 GTi) and the seats were some of the best I have ever sat in, the handling was great and the performance was good for the day...much faster than the Pug.
But in reality...it's French and from the 90's - so buy at your peril!
There was no electronic dipstick on the 19's, it relied on oil pressure and if you relied on that then you were always going to be in trouble.So maybe here are a few reasons you cant find a decent one:
1. The electronic dipstick didn't work properly - so they could get very low on oil without you knowing. Dad got a new engine in his because of this.
2. the front suspension mounting points were very weak and failed twice, also replaced.
I had been driving for a few years by the time my dad had this (which replaced his 1.6 205 GTi) and the seats were some of the best I have ever sat in, the handling was great and the performance was good for the day...much faster than the Pug.
But in reality...it's French and from the 90's - so buy at your peril!
Renault purposely placed a sticker on the top right of the windscreen that clearly stated that you needed to check the oil every 500 miles as the engine could consume a ltr of oil per 1000 miles.
A mate had a phase 1 R19 16v in the early 90s in that lovely dark blue with the yellow front fogs. Very cool looking thing which he quite liked.
He traded it in for a R5 GT turbo Raider, which was the car he should have bought in the first place, according to him.
Another mate had a mk5 Escort RS2000 in the late 90s, which he hated. The final straw came when the timing chain tensioner went one day. He phoned the finance the company and told them that whoever collected it could have it. He'd had enough.
He traded it in for a R5 GT turbo Raider, which was the car he should have bought in the first place, according to him.
Another mate had a mk5 Escort RS2000 in the late 90s, which he hated. The final straw came when the timing chain tensioner went one day. He phoned the finance the company and told them that whoever collected it could have it. He'd had enough.
tonyb1968 said:
lsclayton said:
My dad owned one of these although the saloon not the hatch and had endless problems
So maybe here are a few reasons you cant find a decent one:
1. The electronic dipstick didn't work properly - so they could get very low on oil without you knowing. Dad got a new engine in his because of this.
2. the front suspension mounting points were very weak and failed twice, also replaced.
I had been driving for a few years by the time my dad had this (which replaced his 1.6 205 GTi) and the seats were some of the best I have ever sat in, the handling was great and the performance was good for the day...much faster than the Pug.
But in reality...it's French and from the 90's - so buy at your peril!
There was no electronic dipstick on the 19's, it relied on oil pressure and if you relied on that then you were always going to be in trouble.So maybe here are a few reasons you cant find a decent one:
1. The electronic dipstick didn't work properly - so they could get very low on oil without you knowing. Dad got a new engine in his because of this.
2. the front suspension mounting points were very weak and failed twice, also replaced.
I had been driving for a few years by the time my dad had this (which replaced his 1.6 205 GTi) and the seats were some of the best I have ever sat in, the handling was great and the performance was good for the day...much faster than the Pug.
But in reality...it's French and from the 90's - so buy at your peril!
I bought a lovely 9 month old Dark Blue Executive back in 1996, traded my Charade GTti for this (BIG mistake!!! That's the one car I should have kept!!)
Fair bit slower than the Charade, but was a nicer place to sit. It went through two engines so got shot after 18 months. Had it chipped by Hill Power, hardly any difference in oomph just a slightly smoother power delivery mid range but that's about it. Still pretty slow really and the Gtti would have it.
A local lad had a Phase 1 Chamade with a fair bit done to it, 2 litre conversion, gas flowed head, faster cams etc etc, few quid spent there. Now that was rapid!!
Fair bit slower than the Charade, but was a nicer place to sit. It went through two engines so got shot after 18 months. Had it chipped by Hill Power, hardly any difference in oomph just a slightly smoother power delivery mid range but that's about it. Still pretty slow really and the Gtti would have it.
A local lad had a Phase 1 Chamade with a fair bit done to it, 2 litre conversion, gas flowed head, faster cams etc etc, few quid spent there. Now that was rapid!!
I had one of these back in the 90's. J reg 16v Chamade in racing blue. Huge fun, decent performance and handled extremely well. However, quite possibly the most expensive car I've ever owned.
- Loads of mechanical and electrical issues - was in the garage every month
- Needed to replace whole exhaust and catalytic converter after a disagreement with a rock left in the middle of the road £££
- My first sports car, it was a slippery slope thereafter as everything needed to be faster (and more expensive)
- I meet my wife in that car, also really, really expensive (and so are the kids)
Still got my phase 1 16v 3 dr in blue and still puts a smile on my face everytime i get it out the garage! In good weather of course👍... I've had people pull me over to chat about the car !
My car is a 91 and according to dvlc it's 1 of 4 still on the road in U.K. Which is pretty cool.
It's not gonna win any traffic light Grand Prix with modern day hot hatches and to be honest
I did all that back in the 90s anyhow but just chilling on a sunny day in the country with it is good enough for me. Still tight and drives spot on.
My car is a 91 and according to dvlc it's 1 of 4 still on the road in U.K. Which is pretty cool.
It's not gonna win any traffic light Grand Prix with modern day hot hatches and to be honest
I did all that back in the 90s anyhow but just chilling on a sunny day in the country with it is good enough for me. Still tight and drives spot on.
Gassing Station | General Gassing | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff