When we all start driving electric cars...

[anonymous-user]

Krikkit said:

Illuminating the brake lights every time you lift off to coast would also cause massive traffic issues.

IMO you'll always have some form of hydraulic braking on an electric car, even if they blend in motor recovery with it.

All current EV's already can be driven for the vast majority of the time with one pedal (ie the accelerator only) They all also illuminate the brake lamps if a level of vehicle deceleration is reached, regardless of if the brake pedal is pressed. And of course, you are applying ICE convention in your thinking. In an EV you do not "coast along not touching the accelerator" because that would not be coasting, it would be "braking". On an EV, no accelerator is full electronic deccel, full accelerator pedal is full accel, and somewhere between the two positions, neutral torque is reached (ie coasting) In a dinosaur powered ICE your drivetrain is mono directional, so zero accel pedal is the best you can do for coasting. In an EV, true coasting, at zero motor torque, and hence zero motor power is spectacularly efficient, because the losses are just aero drag and rolling drag, and a tiny, tiny amount of bearing friction in the drivetrain (~1Nm, compared to >75Nm for a typical ICE engine / transmisson)

[Shilvers]

Max_Torque said:

....They all also illuminate the brake lamps if a level of vehicle deceleration is reached, regardless of if the brake pedal is pressed.

No they don't. The deceleration is more noticeable then an ICE car, but not enough that it warrants the brake lights to come on unless you touch the pedal.

[mgv8]

In the city (London to start) the law will push this first. 2020 will be the first big step to this. There are other EU cities going the same way. Black cabs are getting there but have one more step to remove the petrol engine to charge the electric.
The next stage it to tax the rest of the cars of the road. So 20 years to see most gone.

[Nimby]

How many new power stations will we need to charge 30 million electric cars?
I thought we only have about 5% surplus generation capacity today.

[speedking31]

I also suspect that there'll be no pedals, just an app on your phone. You dial in 30 mph as a target speed and the car does the rest.

[99dndd]

I can see the ICE going the same way as the horse did. No longer used for transport tasks, just used by enthusiasts at weekends.

[wemorgan]

Nimby said:

How many new power stations will we need to charge 30 million electric cars?
I thought we only have about 5% surplus generation capacity today.

I don't know, but it's not as if petrol/diesel production and distribution doesn't require electricity itself, and all for a 20-30% efficiency engine.

[Gareth79]

Shilvers said:

Max_Torque said:

....They all also illuminate the brake lamps if a level of vehicle deceleration is reached, regardless of if the brake pedal is pressed.

No they don't. The deceleration is more noticeable then an ICE car, but not enough that it warrants the brake lights to come on unless you touch the pedal.

On my Leaf, in D-mode lifting off the accelerator is roughly the same as lifting off a gas pedal in a petrol car when in a high gear, you lose very little speed. In B-mode (or Eco mode) you get a deceleration which I guess is roughly equivalent to 50% braking, or changing down a gear, and this mode recharges the battery. I tend to use D-mode on dual carriageways and motorways and B-mode around town, since with a bit of thought you can avoid using the brake in town at all. At faster speeds I feel the braking effect in B-mode is a little too harsh, it's enough that it should almost warrant brake lights.

[TheDrBrian]

austinsmirk said:

i.e- as I'm in yorkshire and its dead hilly- if I take the car to work, because the hills/descent off the moors is so great- the range goes up by 8-9 miles AFTER I've actually arrived at work.

But won't you be losing out when going back up the hill?

[DoubleD]

wemorgan said:

I don't know, but it's not as if petrol/diesel production and distribution doesn't require electricity itself, and all for a 20-30% efficiency engine.

Yeah but you cant beat a good petrol engine, especially one with 3 pedals.

[Farlig]

99dndd said:

I can see the ICE going the same way as the horse did. No longer used for transport tasks, just used by enthusiasts at weekends.

Jay Leno on here??

[Farlig]

DoubleD said:

Yeah but you cant beat a good petrol engine, especially one with 3 pedals.

Agreed and an H pattern box

[oop north]

Shilvers said:

Max_Torque said:

....They all also illuminate the brake lamps if a level of vehicle deceleration is reached, regardless of if the brake pedal is pressed.

No they don't. The deceleration is more noticeable then an ICE car, but not enough that it warrants the brake lights to come on unless you touch the pedal.

Er well my i3 certainly does so you plainly don't know what you are talking about!😊

[Mr GrimNasty]

When............

Not in our lifetimes.

Projection is 10% electric by 2040.

Won't get anywhere near that, but no one will admit it.

You have to look at other data - projected oil/petrol use, electricity generation capacity etc. to see that no government or energy body actually believes in the reality of electric cars for the masses.

[Krikkit]

Max_Torque said:

All current EV's already can be driven for the vast majority of the time with one pedal (ie the accelerator only) They all also illuminate the brake lamps if a level of vehicle deceleration is reached, regardless of if the brake pedal is pressed. And of course, you are applying ICE convention in your thinking. In an EV you do not "coast along not touching the accelerator" because that would not be coasting, it would be "braking". On an EV, no accelerator is full electronic deccel, full accelerator pedal is full accel, and somewhere between the two positions, neutral torque is reached (ie coasting)

In a dinosaur powered ICE your drivetrain is mono directional, so zero accel pedal is the best you can do for coasting. In an EV, true coasting, at zero motor torque, and hence zero motor power is spectacularly efficient, because the losses are just aero drag and rolling drag, and a tiny, tiny amount of bearing friction in the drivetrain (~1Nm, compared to >75Nm for a typical ICE engine / transmisson)

I understand the idea, I chose my phrasing poorly.

The tricky bit if you were to try and do away with the brake pedal would be knowing at what point to blend in full decel from a cruise state.

[DoubleD]

I wont look at EVs until they offer something that excites me.

[angels95]

Fas1975 said:

No need for left foot breaking if current trends continue. Tesla have a video on youtube, just by lifting your foot off the accelerator slows down the car and applies a brake directly to the electric motor, it goes into the mechanics, and they're using the phrase, one pedal driving

Edited by Fas1975 on Thursday 23 March 10:24

Drove one of those i3 things the other week, and that seemed to come to an abrupt stop every time I lifted off the accelerator, so it must have had this feature as well. Really horrible to drive as a result.

[RobDickinson]

angels95 said:

Drove one of those i3 things the other week, and that seemed to come to an abrupt stop every time I lifted off the accelerator, so it must have had this feature as well. Really horrible to drive as a result.

You just have to adjust your driving.

Think of the accelerator as a speed setting rather than go. And the brake pedal for stopping really quickly.

A tesla in Canada had to have the entire brake system replaced because it seized, the driver never used it. Now it has some software to avoid this I think.

[anonymous-user]

angels95 said:

Drove one of those i3 things the other week, and that seemed to come to an abrupt stop every time I lifted off the accelerator, so it must have had this feature as well. Really horrible to drive as a result.

You can dial the regen out by changing the settings. IIRC ecopro made me less sea sick!

[anonymous-user]

Krikkit said:

Max_Torque said:

All current EV's already can be driven for the vast majority of the time with one pedal (ie the accelerator only) They all also illuminate the brake lamps if a level of vehicle deceleration is reached, regardless of if the brake pedal is pressed. And of course, you are applying ICE convention in your thinking. In an EV you do not "coast along not touching the accelerator" because that would not be coasting, it would be "braking". On an EV, no accelerator is full electronic deccel, full accelerator pedal is full accel, and somewhere between the two positions, neutral torque is reached (ie coasting)

In a dinosaur powered ICE your drivetrain is mono directional, so zero accel pedal is the best you can do for coasting. In an EV, true coasting, at zero motor torque, and hence zero motor power is spectacularly efficient, because the losses are just aero drag and rolling drag, and a tiny, tiny amount of bearing friction in the drivetrain (~1Nm, compared to >75Nm for a typical ICE engine / transmisson)

I understand the idea, I chose my phrasing poorly.

The tricky bit if you were to try and do away with the brake pedal would be knowing at what point to blend in full decel from a cruise state.

Serveral things are already in series production, including tying the deccel level to both radar sensing and to GPS! Hence, if the car sees something in front of it, and you're going to hit it at the current decel rate, it'll add more decel or apply the brakes (in emergency) But, thanks to the GPS, if it knows it's on a nice steady downhill slope, and there's nothing slow in front, it'll apply a lower decel torque to maintain, rather than reduce speed!


i've also driven a prototype, with a dual sprung accel pedal, which has a hoop on it. If you let the pedal lift till it's normal "off the accelerator" position, the car app;lies normal levels of regen braking (a max of around 0.25 to 0.35g), but the "hoop" which is over your toes, allows you to also lift the pedal against the spring, and the car then applies the friction brakes for emergency stops! As the brakes are applied by the ABS hydraulic modulator, the pedal loads are low, and it actually feels quite natural after a short while. In normal driving, you don't ever lift the pedal, and there is no delay whilst you lift your foot off the accelerator and onto the brake pedal like with the existing layout! The same car also had a force adaptive mode, where the accelerator pedal feedback force could be modulated by the system controller, which helps the driver sit at the super efficient zero torque 'sailing' demand!