Manual 991.2gt3 vs 997.2gt3 ?

[GT4P]

Since the new gt3 is going to cost about £125k if lucky enough to secure one at list which is circa £10k more than the price of a very good example of a 997.2 gt3 it got me thinking would it not be a good alternative manual to the new manual GT3 for failed depositors ? And would it not seem quiet cheap when the new GT3 goes into overs hyperdrive? Could the older car actually be more fun as a manual road car especially with the close ratio box of a 997.2 RS ?
Although the 991.2 is all shiny and new is the older car the better car and end up being worth a lot more in the long term?
(As in better I do not mean quicker)

[Jim1556]

Well, it does have lovely hydraulic steering, though it's now a 5-7 year old car...

It is however, my 'one day' car, preferably in Aqua Blue...

[Phooey]

Can't comment on driving experience of the 991.2 yet but I'm expecting it to be something quite special.

The 997 is a pretty shape, built in much smaller numbers, has the race-proven mezger engine, probably feels a little more mechanical / basic etc.

As for "good alternative" - I would buy a GT4 if you want that manual experience (mainly based on a VFM / running costs factor) or a 991.1 GT3 or possibly a GTS if you want PDK.

Values are largely dictated by production numbers. You can't get a bad GT3.

[Porsche911R]

I would not buy any older GT3 over a GT4 the gearing sucks and the ride is poor, they are getting on a bit, so that means money, the GT4 gets round it due to where the max torque is, so one tends to short shift not red line, the GT3 fun is red lining it, I would still take a modded Cayman R if you like driving over most cars, nothing to match it at £50k, fix the brakes, geo and give it 370BHp, spot on. It's a better drive than the GT4 just because of the feel you get back from it.

I love the 997.2 shape, but the clutch is very hard and that gearing/ engine does not work for me on a personal note, the gear change is loads better in the GT4 also, it's one of the best.

The new 4.0l engine sounds amazing, has the get up and go at lower revs, I am looking forward to a GT3 which has some get up and go below 6k and I might keep it this time.
I know Cmoose will go on and on and say buy a oil burner or a turbo, but he does not live in the real world, this new engine sounds just want I am after, esp with this new 6 speed manual, and a perfect partner to my Spyder, so the R and GT4 goes :-( but if I only had to have one car the R still wins for me, it has a place in my heart hence the only time I have bought the same car twice. One does not need to spend £130k to enjoy cars to the max.

[MDL111]

I think a 997.1 (I prefer the looks to the 997.2) might be the car I buy as my one-car-garage to do-everything-forever-car at some point. I also like the 996.1.

I am sure the 991.2 will be a great car, but due to more electronics, 4ws etc I am not sure if it is as good a long term proposition from a running cost/simplicity and possibly even driving-joy perspective. None of these cars are particularly fast in a straight line, so not sure how relevant a few more horses will be going forward

[Porsche911R]

MDL111 said:

I think a 997.1 (I prefer the looks to the 997.2) might be the car I buy as my one-car-garage to do-everything-forever-car at some point. I also like the 996.1.

I am sure the 991.2 will be a great car, but due to more electronics, 4ws etc I am not sure if it is as good a long term proposition from a running cost/simplicity and possibly even driving-joy perspective. None of these cars are particularly fast in a straight line, so not sure how relevant a few more horses will be going forward

For the 1st time a GT3 is now proper fast, 500bhp and still quite light vs all these 4 wd turbo cars, it's as fast as an older turbo to 100mph, circa 6.6 seconds, you are going to notice that over a 997.1 GT3 esp the torque out the bends. I think the 991.2 engine will wow us, you can keep the "mezger" hype as far as I am concerned, it's a racer engine and a great tool at Spa, but not for me on todays UK roads.

Edited by Porsche911R on Friday 24th March 09:49

[MDL111]

Porsche911R said:

MDL111 said:

I think a 997.1 (I prefer the looks to the 997.2) might be the car I buy as my one-car-garage to do-everything-forever-car at some point. I also like the 996.1.

I am sure the 991.2 will be a great car, but due to more electronics, 4ws etc I am not sure if it is as good a long term proposition from a running cost/simplicity and possibly even driving-joy perspective. None of these cars are particularly fast in a straight line, so not sure how relevant a few more horses will be going forward

For the 1st time a GT3 is now proper fast, 500bhp and still quite light vs all these 4 wd turbo cars, it's as fast as an older turbo to 100mph, circa 6.6 seconds, you are going to notice that over a 997.1 GT3 esp the torque out the bends. I think the 991.2 engine will wow us, you can keep the "mezger" hype as far as I am concerned, it's a racer engine and a great tool at Spa, but not for me on todays UK roads.

Edited by Porsche911R on Friday 24th March 09:49

don't have the figures, but I doubt it is even as fast to 250 kph as my 2-tonne FF (the manual transmission version) ... and the FF is without a doubt a reasonably fast car, but not comparable to the new Ferraris / McLarens etc. So "proper fast" in a straight line in today's world is not the description I would use. It will probably have a tough time keeping up with a Panamera Turbo, new M5, various AMGs (and the rumoured Cayenne Turbo S Hybrid once it is launched) on the Autobahn.

Not that it matters much as I alluded to in my initial post ... I prefer driving my 200 hp Clio to most other cars - on a country road I do not need anything really fast as imo it will just reduce my enjoyment and I (so far) do not do track days - therefore the more analogue 996 or 997 GT3 might be the "more fun" long term proposition for me

[Porsche911R]

I know these silly fast cars are now 8.5 seconds to 200kph and a 570S is the tool to do it in for the money or a 991.2 Turbo S.

But the new GT3 will be faster than the Ferrari FF, a sub 7 second 100mph NA car is a proper fast car in my book. The 991 RS is faster than the FF and that has more drag.

I think the 991.2 GT3 will shock a few people once timed one up.

[GT4P]

See I am a manual fan but I can't help thinking that the 991.2gt3 might be better suited to pdk and that manual might actually not suit ie tall first 3 gears! ( wonder if any ratios are out there yet?). Hence why mentioning the 997.2 gt3 with an RS gearbox with the lower ratios and the more analoge/mechanical feel

[MDL111]

Porsche911R said:

I know these silly fast cars are now 8.5 seconds to 200kph and a 570S is the tool to do it in for the money or a 991.2 Turbo S.

But the new GT3 will be faster than the Ferrari FF, a sub 7 second 100mph NA car is a proper fast car in my book. The 991 RS is faster than the FF and that has more drag.

I think the 991.2 GT3 will shock a few people once timed one up.

only have 0-200 figures as can't be bothered to look for 0-250 or 300, but to 200 Auto Motor und Sport tested the FF at 11.6 and the 991 GT3 at 12.1 - not sure the 991.2 with a 24hp more and a manual transmission will be faster. I would also assume that it has more drag and at higher speeds will start to lose a little ground. Certainly not a difference that puts it in a different bracket - which cars like the 812 or 720 are ín terms of acceleration (they are supposedly close to 4 seconds faster - or differently put a GT3/FF take 50% longer to hit 200).

[GT4P]

Porsche911R said:

I with this new 6 speed manual, and a perfect partner to my Spyder, so the R and GT4 goes :-( but if I only had to have one car the R still wins for me, it has a place in my heart hence the only time I have bought the same car twice. One does not need to spend £130k to enjoy cars to the max.

My perfect 2 car garage has always been 987 spyder manual of course and the GT 4 ( as you know I have a problem with the CR with it being just a nice 987.2cs although still a very good car)
I now think if I had a chance of a 991.2 gt3 then i would take the pdk car and the 987.2 manual spyder but as I can only have/afford one P car then the gt4 is the one for me!

[Cheib]

Nowhere near as special as a 997.2 GT3 but a manual 997.2 GTS is a fantastic road car (if that's where you use it). Suspension set up is perhaps a better match for UK country/B roads....and the manual box with 408 bhp Powerkit engine is a great drivetrain (though clearly no Mezger) . I don't think I'd swap mine for anything other than a manual 991.2 GT3....thought long and hard about a GT3 but have come to the conclusion the premium isn't justified in my case.

[Digga]

Jim1556 said:

Well, it does have lovely hydraulic steering, though it's now a 5-7 year old car...

The plus side with the Mezger and the 996/7 platform is that they are an extremely well-known entity; the issues are quantifiable and identifiable. The 991 GT3 is by no means completely 'proven' in the same way, yet.

In my heart, I think the 997.2 GT3 might be the choice. I'd already pondered this versus used 991.1 GT3 too.

[isaldiri]

GT4P said:

See I am a manual fan but I can't help thinking that the 991.2gt3 might be better suited to pdk and that manual might actually not suit ie tall first 3 gears! ( wonder if any ratios are out there yet?). Hence why mentioning the 997.2 gt3 with an RS gearbox with the lower ratios and the more analoge/mechanical feel

Ratio of the 991.2gt3 should be the same as the R as it'll have the same box. Ie very similar to that of the 7.2rs.

In theory the new gt3 has the 7.2 gt3 beaten in every aspect, more engine power, torque, revs higher, same usage in the race car now, and it'll be far easier to drive quickly. Hard to say before driving one if it's the same or even similar driving experience to the 7.2gt3 though. The gt4 for example was miles away, and not just from the lack of top end oomph from the detuned 3.8.